x factor music Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 check this out! http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/CWSONAR.html as far as the transports go, once you start using them they will become a lot more natural to you... jeremeyhunsicker.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by posterchild: [b]* How can I assign the keyboard number pad to the transport controls?[/b][/quote]Check out the online help and do a search on 'key bindings'. It's a very cool feature that I really haven't tapped into. [quote]Originally posted by posterchild: [b]* How do you back up songs on CD-R if everything gets saved as one huge CWB file? I could easily see a CWB file being too big to fit on a CD-R.[/b][/quote]One option is to use Winrar and it's mutlimedia compression setting (it kicks ass). The other is to use the 'per project audio folders' feature in Sonar 2.0. This simply stores wave files in the folder of your choice. I'll have to get back to you on the other questions later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 Hey Pop Poster: To answer your first question, you can go anywhere on the numbered time line above the tracks forward or backward by holding your cursor over the point you want and clicking. Make sure snap to grid is disabled by pushing the N key. If snap to grid is enabled you can only go from one measure to the next. To re-enable snap to grid push N again. Of course if you have a section to work on repeatedly you can set up markers or loop points. You can use the top row of F keys to control the transport, that way you wouldn't have to use multiple keys. I see on another thread you were excited about Pro-Tools free. That could be a useful tool I'm sure but there is no comparison to Sonar. Have you tried importing Wav files yet? That's where I ran into trouble. I could not get smooth play back of imported files no matter how I configured Pro Tools Free. Good luck with that though. I encourage you not to give up on Sonar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 * How do you fast forward or rewind a little? in other words, how can you play the song and skip forwards or backwards in smaller increments than the fast forward and rewind buttons? Assuming you don't have a StudioMix, just put the cursor where you want on the timeline, or use the slider on the Position toolbar. My experience, though, is that generally you want to skip back to or fast forward to specific places, like the start of a verse. In this case it's easy to use markers and jump between them. Yet another option: if you're looping, the W button takes you back to the loop start rather than the beginning of the song. * How can I assign the keyboard number pad to the transport controls? As far as I can tell, you can only assign program functions to Ctrl+ or Alt+ key combinations. I like how they have start/stop on the space bar, but IMO it's a user interface mistake to have the rewind key on "W" and the record key on "R" because you have to actually *look* at the computer keyboard to make sure you are pressing the right key. Key bindings will let you do just about anything. You can also map controls to a MIDI keyboard, so if you have something like an Oxygen8, you can keep it next to you and use it as a remote control as well as controller generator. * How do you back up songs on CD-R if everything gets saved as one huge CWB file? I could easily see a CWB file being too big to fit on a CD-R. Like the main said ... per-project folders. I think, though, that the audio undergoes lossless compression so the bundle files don't end up as big as you might think. * Punching in on the fly -- I don't totally get it. I know you can set the markers and punch in that way, but I'm also able to arm a track for recording, press play, then press record while the track is playing back. It punches in (kinda) when you record that way, but you can still hear the original track being played. Is there any way to punch in on the fly and have the new material *hide* the old material, so you don't hear both on playback? There are several different overdub modes, you want replace rather than sound on sound. Go to the Transport menu for more. Interestingly, Sonar is up and running on my other computer right now, I'm working on some loops for the Discrete Drums guys. I thought I'd take a break and check out SSS. I'll probably have more questions the more I play around with it... Thanks in advance! Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 It's sounds like you already made your mind up, but if you decide to use Sonar again, try this. Set key bindings for the major transport functions to the available F keys(top row). F1 is reserved, use F2 for Record, F3 for Play, and F4 for Stop, etc. so you have one button control of the major functions. You only have access to 8 of those keys so reserve 2 of them to function as Go to next Marker, Go to Previous Marker. Go to your project and set markers wherever you will be working. Now you can do whatever you need to and go anywhere you need to go using one hand and pushing the correct button, might want to label the buttons on the keyboard. I think eventually you'll want to do 24 bit and not have to mess around with importing and exporting tracks with every project and you can do that with Sonar and also many other amazing things too numerous too mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 <> For overdubbing, I usually just do loop recording. So I start, and then do my thing until I have what I want. Using a computer is a very different experience from tape, but the cool thing is that once you become proficient at the computer, recording is very simple but the you also have all the wonderful editing options. It sound like you really might like an "ADAT replacement" hard disk recorder like a Mackie MDR, the Alesis HD-24, Tascam MX2424, etc. That gives you basic computer stuff with a familiar interface. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 I know this is an "old habits die hard" and "you cant teach and old dog new tricks" kinda thing... but I *never* understood why you would want/preffer a tape machine behaviour when working on a DAW. But that's just me. It's as backwards (to me) as having an EQ where you can't tweak the curve with the mouse, but have to go in with the mouse and turn little *knobs* on some godforsaken wooden panel on-screen emulation. I hate on-screen emulations of hardware, it should be abolished. For you most immediate needs your answers have already been given: Markers, go-to-next, go to prev, arm track, record, e.t.c. is what you need to add key bindings to, or get one of those newfangled really controller keyboards for SONAR... or program the MIDI key bindings so your lowest keys on your synth does this for you... it's all possible, and can become very fast and easy to use. /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 [quote]but not if there aren't standard fast foward and rewind buttons[/quote]Heh, but seriously... isn't fast-forward and rewind buttons just a necessary evil of tape behaviour? Isn't what you REALLY want to do to get where you want... prefferably instantly? I mean really? You do not *want* to have to whirl slowly backwars, it just happened to be a semi-convenient interface at the time... right? /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 [quote]whats more instant[/quote]Hitting the "move to next marker" until your cursor is where you wanted it... you did place markers didn't you? C'mon, plan a little :) [quote]1) Looking at the screen, clicking with a mouse[/quote]Also pretty instant. Just click and voila :) Easist of all, set the loop region the the interesting bit, "W" to rewind to the beginning of it. I do it daily. Milliseconds. [quote]look at the keyboard[/quote]Do you look at your guitar when you play? No. Then dont look at the keyboard f'gods sake ;) (okay so 15 years of software engineering gave me good computer-keyboard skills, so sue me ;) ) [quote]2) Hold down the rewind key (located on an easy-to-feel-in-the-dark position on the keyboard number pad) until you hear the spot in the song where you want to start playing.[/quote]Actually, seriously... the main problem is that most DAW systems w. a complex chain of audio to pipe around through various plug-ins left right and center w. softsynths, MIDI data, and stuff going on left right and center *CANT* easily just "play faster" or "play backwards" because it's a major engineering task, software-wize, to do that, unfortunately. MOST software that DO wind/rewind w. audio dont really "play" they stutter through short bits My point is still, what is easier, winding until you get there, or get there right away? The answer is - get there right away. You can have external controller keyboards for SONAR... I saw one on the net some days ago... I was actually searching for the link FOR YOU about it... it's kinda a computer-keyboard-replacement-thingy w. nice big play, record e.t.c. buttons.... long cable... plugs in parallel w. your computer keyboard... does all big sequencers..... great stuff. [quote]From a user interface perspective, it's too much work to switch between a mouse and keyboard[/quote]Well w. markers and the keyboard you NEED neither mouse nor screen, and you can assign next-marker, record, e.t.c. to midi keys on any synth... :) as said before :D [quote]But since I play guitar, accordion , other instruments, sing, and handle the engineering, I need something which requires minimum interaction to perform basic recording functions.[/quote]Understood, but there are only a couple of keys you need to worry about... and all the other things I said before. Sure you cant "wind" w. audio, but it's not what you *really* want to do. What you *really* want to do is "get me to the right place NOW" [quote](I think Pro Tools Free is going to do the trick, interestingly enough.) [/quote]Yeah well sure but its a TOY compared to SONAR! I feel you are throwing the baby out w. the bathwater on this deal.... Check out the markers, and keyboard shortcut settings. Check out the midi-control of functions. You'll smile. /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Personally speaking Poster, I do not understand why you are having such difficulty. Being an analog person is no excuse, as I have worked with analog (and still do) since 1975 in a pro setting. I am also an engineer and a studio musician. I have NO PROBLEMS whatsoever when I am recording live to Sonar...NONE!!! Whatever software you use, you are going to have a learning curve. Just suck it up and instead of complaining about it, learn what you have to do and just do it!!! Otherwise, you might as well stay with analog! BTW...I had no problems going from analog to Sonar. It is a very user friendly program. Yes, you have to learn how to do things on it, but going to the help files will guide you along the way, as well as those in this forum and others. Just my 2 cents worth. Haven Music Productions Tampa, FL www DOT havenmp DOT com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Posterchild, How do you deal with latency with ProTools Free? When I did get it working it was only at extremely high buffer settings, so I had an annoying slap-back delay while recording. Is this not a problem with your setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by posterchild: [b][QUOTE] Me, I think I'm more of a Pro Tools Free kinda guy :D [/b][/quote]Problem solved! Haven Music Productions Tampa, FL www DOT havenmp DOT com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I can't figure out what you're bitching about. You can set up any of the available programs to do what you want to do, Why is the latency in Pro Tool Free so high? I hate that. What kind of drivers does that program use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techristian Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Posterchild I sympathize with you. I also miss << AND >> but time moves on. However I'm more concerned now that THE TIME LINE MOVES BY ITSELF. Many times I place the time line (cursor) over a spot and right click to SPLIT several tracks at once BUT THEN IT (the time line) MOVES and trys to split in a different place??? Another question is this. When I try to cut a section out of several tracks at once, why won't Sonar allow me to DELETE HOLE ??? Dan http://musicinit.com/pvideos.html TEACHMEDRUMS.COM My Music Videos RED PILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 [quote]I can't figure out what you're bitching about. You can set up any of the available programs to do what you want to do[/quote]Agreed. SONAR does have both forward, rewind and jog+ and jog- over MIDI (use the "Generic controller surface" controller in SONAR 2!). Funny is they dont exist on the toolbars though, thats kinda amusing.....! (next/prev measure is bindable to keys/midi w. the normal key binding options though) You know I have to thank posterchild because his "complaints" gave me an Idea... I have an old drum machine I never use which has huge pads on it which send MIDI w. fixed velocity.... I am gonna use that as my controller pad!!! Wicked!!! (Thats a tip, buy $10 drummachines in pawnshops as controllers instead of expensive dedictade boxes!! :) ) [quote]1) Make sure that your monitoring mode is set to Auto Input Monitoring (you can select it on the Operations menu)... I think that's the default mode anyway. That mode will only send your input through if you're actually recording. [/quote]Color me silly, but why dont you just turn the monitoring off completely since you are monitoring in hardware anyway!? [quote]A very cool feature of PTF -- which is one I've been wanting out of a DAW for a while now -- is the ability to do punch-ins on the fly. [/quote]Sonar does this and better than any other I've tried: Go to recording options and select "overwrite". Then play. When you wanna punch, hit "record", when end hit "record" again. Now a hole is made in your old clip and the new clip inserted... [b]but all data from the old clip is still there[/b] and can be retreived w. slip-editing the start and endpoints. So cleaning up the punchpoint is a nobrainer - just drag the start of your new clip to where you started play right ;) and drag the end of the old clip before it up to (or slightly overlapping to create a crossfade automatically) and voila...! [quote] Tonight I wired up a 1/4" female jack out of my computer keyboard and attached the wires to the connectors of the "3" numeric pad key. Then I hooked up a MIDI keyboard sustain pedal and wired it to my computer keyboard [/quote]You can do this in SONAR w. no wiring. Use the generic controller surface and assign "Sustain ON" as your "record" toggle switch. Voila, punch pedal! - - [quote]THE TIME LINE MOVES BY ITSELF. Many times I place the time line (cursor) over a spot and right click to SPLIT several tracks at once BUT THEN IT (the time line) MOVES and trys to split in a different place??? [/quote]Right click in track view, select view options. Uncheck "Right click sets Now". Voila. [quote]Another question is this. When I try to cut a section out of several tracks at once, why won't Sonar allow me to DELETE HOLE ???[/quote]1. Hit CTRL-A to select all (just an easy way to get all tracks selected) 2. In the timeline above all the tracks, drag over the time-period you want to remove... when you have done this you should see this time-period selected in all tracks 3. Do you just want it gone? Hit DELETE. Voila 4. You want to close the hole? Ok, hit CTRL-X for cut, and in cut options dialog that pops up check "Delete hole". Voila. More questions? :D /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 MASTER ZAP! IN THE HOUSE! Thanks man. It's hard to explain stuff like that sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 [quote]As far as I can tell, once you mute the monitoring, you're also muting the original track you want to punch in on.[/quote]And how dumb is *that* on a scale from 1 to 10 :) /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Zap Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Okey heres my last stab on this Punching in is conceptually broken in a DAW anyway. I assume that you want to punch in because you have a bad part somewhere? Okay, do this: Select the bad bit, and hit "delete". Voila now you have a hole in your audio. Now record on a NEW track. Just hit record. Walk up to your guitar. Tune it. Fiddle. Scratch your nose. Is the bit coming up. Owkie, start playing. Play. Enjoy. Play. Passed the bad bit? Fine. Stop playing. Walk to computer. Hit stop. Scratch your nose again. Now, slip edit start and end of the new recording so you only have the good bits. Move it from your new scratch track to the original track to fill the hole. Voila, done. (If using SONAR, it will automagically crossfade the overlaps, and you still retain all your data in the background and you can still edit it.) Although I perfectly "understand" your way of working, and can appreciate and use it, the whole concept of "punch in" is *really* just a piece of tape-mentality. Just record. Sort it out later. Thats the DAW way :) /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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