Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

What you listen to vs. What you write/play...


Recommended Posts

Chip, Quit erasing shit! If your shit is all over the map, than I think that is your style. Instead of trying to box yourself into a certain style, why not promote the fact that you follow no style. IMO, real music fans listen to all types and genres of music. And the problem with any given genre is the boundries which exist in that genre. Many a band has been rejected from a scene for going to far away from the original style they were playing in. Even if you decide to follow a certain stylistic route, you will still be drawing from all these varied references and will probably do just as you are now....trying to decide which stylistic route to follow. You sound like me in the fact that I just play and write whatever comes out at the time. It is never based on trying to write in a particular style. When I do that, it sounds forced and familiar. I prefer to just let the music come out naturally and catagorize it after the fact. I better add that I make music just for the love of music. I don't care if I make any money or if anybody likes my stuff at all. (I do care if people like my stuff, but you know what I mean) I used to make music with an eye on the end result and an intention for it to be a certain type of music that would be enjoyed by a certain group of people. I still write with a slight thought about how something will be accepted by the listener, but first and foremeost, I write music for myself. My formula is to write music for myself. I write songs for myself to enjoy. If they meet the criteria for somebody to enjoy, than that is a bonus. Why try to classify yourself Chip? If your music is too broad for classification, than I would capitalize on that. Why try to appeal to a lowest common denominator? You are the artist. I don't think an artist can objectively view their work ass well as an unattached party can. Just record everything, delete nothing, and put it all out there. In the end, I would guess that you will be hailed for creating a body of work that transcends classification or genre. Or you a jack of all trades, or a master of one? Or are you a renaissance man whose art cannot be contained?
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply
I have the same problem as Chip, only worse ;) I have a hell of a time making normal, or commercial, music. I can put a huge amount of work into it and get nowhere. It's like, anything that I've spent months working on, I know it'll mostly get blank looks from people. There's exceptions, but not many. However, I also sometimes do stuff NOT to be liked. I'll try something that's noise, or totally jammy, or incredibly dissonant and spastic, determined that THIS TIME I'll have produced the truly audience-proof music, just for me and my defective brain. And every time, somebody ends up getting into it, a lot. The most recent time it was a chaos-theory hour of directionless noise from strings. I called it "Shadows On The Wall Of Your Cave" and was certain that nobody could like it. But the first two people to hear it are BUYING copies. The maddening thing about this is, that CD's nicely engineered and all, but it's basically playing with a computer for an hour, with a bit of extra noise thrown in here and there. I have spent months trying to do Real Serious Music that nobody wants to pay a cent for, but when I sit down and just make awful noise for fun THAT is worth money? It's positively insulting. Not that I'll say so, as I _am_ being paid. I had another piece that was chaos piano, totally spastic and unlistenable, and a building maintenance guy wants a CD because he could work to it- painting, or whatever. All I can say is- save something, if people are wanting it. I've yet to learn how to guess that, so currently what I do is record stuff and make 2 CDs of it and save the final 16 bit tracks to a data CD. The masters aren't necessarily saved- if they won't fit on a CDR I can't justify it. But I do the whole thing as a single process, and save the result, that I'd be playing for/showing to/selling to people. If people are wanting what you're doing, pay attention. I've wasted so much time trying to do what _I_ thought was serious music, only to do worse than when I spaz out in sound. Learn quicker than I did, pay attention to what people are liking. Chris Johnson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chip... I figured it out. You need: A nap. A cookie (oatmeal, I think). A partial lobotomy. See... you're too fucking smart for your own good. If you were just a little dumber, you wouldn't think so much and second-guess all of your work. I'd love to see you operate with half your abilities but twice the confidence. You'd still be a hell of a musician, but you'd just kinda go, "FUCK YOU! This is my shit," and not worry about being pigeonholed or typecast. See, to me, the amazing part of being as musically gifted as you are is that you can do ANYTHING... the sad part is that you're never really totally happy with what you've done because you always wonder if you could do it better or if it's really your best work or if it's really representational of your musical identity. And then there's the self-doubt thing... Chip... my man... I have had these worries as well. I can play a lot of different stuff, but main main band is primarily metal/hardcore. I listen to a ton of other things. I used to worry that people would think, "Oh, he's just a metal lunkhead. What could he know about Xinsert-genre-name-hereX?" Ya know what? I got over it. Fuck them if they think that all I can do is play hardcore. [b]I[/b] know I can do a lot of other shit... and I do it with other bands. I don't care if they pigeonhole me... I just do my thing. I'm not trying to break your balls here... I'd just love to see you pleased with something you've done.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[b] Chip... I figured it out. You need: A nap. A cookie (oatmeal, I think). A partial lobotomy. See... you're too fucking smart for your own good. If you were just a little dumber, you wouldn't think so much and second-guess all of your work. I'd love to see you operate with half your abilities but twice the confidence. You'd still be a hell of a musician, but you'd just kinda go, "FUCK YOU! This is my shit," and not worry about being pigeonholed or typecast. See, to me, the amazing part of being as musically gifted as you are is that you can do ANYTHING... the sad part is that you're never really totally happy with what you've done because you always wonder if you could do it better or if it's really your best work or if it's really representational of your musical identity. And then there's the self-doubt thing... Chip... my man... I have had these worries as well. I can play a lot of different stuff, but main main band is primarily metal/hardcore. I listen to a ton of other things. I used to worry that people would think, "Oh, he's just a metal lunkhead. What could he know about Xinsert-genre-name-hereX?" Ya know what? I got over it. Fuck them if they think that all I can do is play hardcore. I know I can do a lot of other shit... and I do it with other bands. I don't care if they pigeonhole me... I just do my thing. I'm not trying to break your balls here... I'd just love to see you pleased with something you've done. [/b] I say CMDN has got it nailed on the head. I've seen this same syndrome in tons of prodigial musicians, and this easily includes Chip McDonald. (the above was sincere and serious. What follows is mostly sarcastic) Chip, you need to start channeling off some of your intellectual energy on other things- I suggest you pick up K&R. Or maybe even Knuth. If you want to really sap your resources (albeit temporarily) pick up the Camel Book. Yes, we've had this discussion before, no different than the fact we've had this thread before. (don't believe me, look at the datestamp on the opening post). (The following is more serious and sincere) I don't know what else you do to occupy your time, but if it is *only* music, or only music and one other thing, you need to expand some horizons, man. Surely you're just as proficient and creative in a lot of other things, though. Oh, and let me add also- i'm not trying to break your balls either, chip. I've read a lot of your posts, i've mulled over your website. It's very apparent that you're one sharp puppy, and i know what the world tries to do to people like you.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by the stranger: [b]Why try to classify yourself Chip? If your music is too broad for classification, than I would capitalize on that. Why try to appeal to a lowest common denominator?[/b][/quote]Well, because it's only practical. I do stuff that could be lumped into a number of different categories, and then stuff that doesn't fit any category. Overall though, none of it is blatantly one cateogry, so I feel I suffer from an uphill battle from the start. I want to *get on* with something, not fight more battles. If that means anything. [b]Or you a jack of all trades, or a master of one?[/b] Neither. I've never been an exclusive fan on one *genre* of music. Stylistically I can lean in a number of directions and be happy, which is what I've done in the past. The problem is that I always let things get "diluted", which was a mistake.. but now that I'm wholly dependent on myself, I don't have any borders at all and likewise my output reflects that.

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a good post. ( Ive been away since last week -An ice storm cut the power for four full days) I also create music largely for my own enjoyment -with a secondary goal to write a song that someone else might choose to record. This is great ...except for the minor inconvenience of having to get a day job that sucks up all your time and energy. :D I listen to many different genres of music. Around the time I started writing I was probably listenting to more electric jazz than anyting else. I was into much of the early 70's rock stuff as well. I even had a taste for big band music as I played the sax in a good one in HS and my dad played it constantly. I never never ever listened to any country. EVER. Also, for me, listening was primarily about the music and the sounds - not lyrics. So I decided to try and write potentially marketable pop/rock songs. Firstly, the lyrics came to the forefront real fast. Suddenly Im spending more time trying not to write stupid or overly complex/clever lyrics than I am spending time playing the music and making sounds. Ive not written any electric jazz at all. A few of my tunes come out darned near country songs near as i can figure. This proves that songs exist in the ether and are just "channeled" through the lucky songwriters. Now, when I listen, I do listen more often to music that corresponds to what Im am trying to write. BUT NOT Country. However, Im so busy writing,recording, mixing that I actually spend very little time listening to other stuff.

Check out some tunes here:

http://www.garageband.com/artist/KenFava

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Chip- I have a thought about that. The question is, do you [i]want[/i] borders? if you don`t, there`s no point in thinking about it. If you do, consider it your next artistic challenge. That may be an important step. Try doing enough work in `one` direction to fill a CD or whatever. Your move from there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a great topic,i listen to a variety of styles but love playing(programming) trip-hop.Having said that,i recently got together with some punk rawker friends and were gonna do a Black Sabbath meets Discharge in Lynrd Skynrd's backyard :eek: ode to the the old school.I would also want to write a symphonic piece one day.
I cannot be bought, and I cannot be threatened. But if you put them both together then I'm your man!"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chip. Well, I think you've already gotten a lot of good advice from others. Save your stuff. Just do it. Back it up, save it, whatever. It's just a CD (or DVD). And yes, maybe eclecticism is your style. But you know, maybe you can do one of a few things: 1. If it is eclectic, then maybe just go ahead and put your eclectic sounds on a release. 2. Keep saving stuff, and then sooner or later, you'll get a collection of songs culled from this massive library that fit together somehow. They don't even have to be stylistically similar, as long as they fit together and gell on a release. 3. In lieu of all this, get someone else who you trust to pick and choose for you and help you out. Maybe you're one of these musicians who really does need a producer, someone to yank you by your ears and say, "Chip, you're going to put this and this and this out, and this is a good performance here, and you're going to put this out now or I will seriously kick your ass!" ~~~~ I want to address this thinking too much. How do you stop it? I don't know. I think I even mentioned this a long time ago in reaction to one of your posts. You're obviously quite a bright guy, and you think through a lot of scenarios. You'd probably make a good chess player. When you are considering things, you've thought several moves in advance already, you've thought about the ramifications for things. A lot of people don't like to do this because of the bewildering myriad of choices that it produces. Or perhaps their mindset is really locked in tight in such a way that it only produces limited possible scenarios. I'm not sure what the key to "remedying" this (assuming that it is actually an affliction!). But consider something that serves as a distraction, something positive, perhaps, such as gardening or learning another musical instrument or something. In my experience, a lot of people who think about things "too much" ("overanalyze things"?) often can benefit from hanging out more with friends. Again, the distraction thing. Talking with friends often tends to crystallize thoughts and can sometimes derail these thoughts from becoming overanalyzed. Plus, hell, it's fun to hang out with your friends!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by Chris Johnson: [b]If people are wanting what you're doing, pay attention. I've wasted so much time trying to do what _I_ thought was serious music, only to do worse than when I spaz out in sound. [/b][/quote]Right, that's the point. I can always make stuff for my own enjoyment. People seem to respond to the more overt guitar stuff I do, so it seems obvious to ramp that up. By the same token though, I've done bands where I didn't do any overt playing at all, and it's gotten a good response. So I don't know. I can make straight forward "commercial" stuff effortlessly, that's not a problem. I just don't want to do that. I'm torn between disparate influences. Recently a favorite group is Sigur Ros - who play sort of like slow-motion dreamy psychelic droning hypnotic stuff... but I've also also been listening to _Ghost in the Machine_ a lot recently, as well as some Coltrane boots. ULTIMATELY, if the world was as I wanted it, I'd have a fusion group, a blues group, a psychedelic jam band, and a shoe-gazer pop band. Maybe a pop-rock band as well, and a retro-grunge group. Yeah. See? I'm not kidding. Looking at that - that would make me *so* happy. I mean, I'd be grinning all the time. That's all I want to do. The problem is I don't have the human resources available to do all of that, so I have to figure out what makes sense....

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by CMDN: [b] You'd still be a hell of a musician, but you'd just kinda go, "FUCK YOU! This is my [/b][/quote]Yeah, I've been told I need more "fuck it" attitude... Hmm... there was an old joke about beer being "liquid fuck it"... [b]you're never really totally happy with what you've done because you always wonder if you could do it better or if it's really your best [/b] No, I know I can do it better, but I also know I have to dole out my time in an efficient manner (which I'm not doing). [b]musical identity. And then there's the self-doubt thing...[/b] Well.. I have absolutely no self-doubt about what I can do, just doubt about choosing the right thing *to* do. [b]I'm not trying to break your balls here... I'd just love to see you pleased with something you've done.[/b] No, it's cool. It's helping me, I think, codify what I need to aim towards.

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by phaeton: [b]Chip, you need to start channeling off some of your intellectual energy on other things- I suggest you pick up K&R. [/b][/quote] That's funny, I was unpacking some books to put up here at the house last week and ran across my ancient printout of it... Along with some of my old programming books I hadn't given away... I've forgotten all of it, but it still pulls at me like "read me, this is interesting!"... (unfortunately EVERYTHING does that to me, so...) [b]I don't know what else you do to occupy your time, but if it is *only* music, or only music and one other thing, you need to expand some horizons, man. Surely you're just as proficient and creative in a lot of other things, though.[/b] It's only music. I used to mountain bike about 50-75 miles a week, but I haven't done that in 2 years now. Why? See, it's like this: go look up the weather for Augusta Georgia for every Sunday and Monday (my days off) for the past 2 years... rain, or cold. Of course last year - I have to write last year off, it just plain sucked start to finish... Thing is, I've got all this miscellaneous crap I've got to take care of that got set aside last year for various reasons, which leaves my brain cluttered until that's taken care of. I paint. Heck, scribbled out a couple of crummy pastel things a few weeks ago, scanned them, retouched them and now I'm doing something with them tomorrow/today actually... Only reason I've managed that is because I've been sick, and I don't feel like playing with a mild headache etc.. I'd try to ride, but it wouldn't be pleasant because I'd be obsessing on all of the other things that are more "pressing" I need to get done that I really should be doing. I do music. That's not a problem, I love it, I'm not getting burned out. I'm just getting too.... fragmented, dispersed. I've got all this different stuff and nothing to show for it, because I can't "aim" it, get it finished as a legitimate project because I don't see a clear path of "public consumption". [b]Oh, and let me add also- i'm not trying to break your balls either, chip. I've read a lot of your posts, i've mulled over your website. [/b] No, it's cool, thanks...

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by Kendrix: [b]write. BUT NOT Country. [/b][/quote]Yeah, I should say that I'm psychotically prolific, but "for some reason" I've yet to turn out a country song...

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by skip: [b]If you do, consider it your next artistic challenge. That may be an important step. Try doing enough work in `one` direction to fill a CD or whatever. Your move from there.[/b][/quote]Right, that's my point... *I* don't want borders, but from a pragmatic standpoint I have to if I want to play out and sell cd's. I like playing music for myself, but I also like playing for people - I don't want to be a musical hermit. So my problem is choosing that one direction - it wouldn't be an artistic challenge, but a relief really... You know, if someone swept down from the sky and said "YOU ARE NOW SIGNED TO A MAJOR LABEL GROUP THAT PLAYS NOTHING BUT FUNK" it'd be easy. Or any other genre. The problem is fear of diminishing returns; showing up a year from now, having spent all my time and energy/money only to be asking myself "was diving into a Bulgarian folk-ambient jazz project really the smart thing to do?" . Which sounds funny, but I've got Bulgarian ambient jazz... (or wait, rather I did...)

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: [b]3. In lieu of all this, get someone else who you trust to pick and choose for you and help you out.[/b][/quote]Yeah, I've thought about this. Thing is, I've got all of this stuff not recorded/prepared in any form I consider "fit for public consumption", .. Or maybe it is, I suppose. It's just that at this point there's SO MUCH I don't know where to start kinda. I've considered coralling a few people and giving them a cd, but I don't know how much actual feedback I would get, and then there's the fear of "oh great, now this is going to get played to someone else at a later date as "hey, listen to this crap Chip gave me".. So.. [b]by your ears and say, "Chip, you're going to put this and this and this out, and this is a good performance here, and you're going to put this out now or I will seriously kick your ass!" [/b] Yeah, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea... [b]A lot of people don't like to do this because of the bewildering myriad of choices that it produces.[/b] Option anxiety hasn't been a problem in the past because there has been one clear cut option that rises to the top. Now it seems all level. [b]instrument or something. In my experience, a lot of people who think about things "too much" ("overanalyze things"?) often can benefit from hanging out more with friends. Again, the distraction thing. Talking with friends often tends to crystallize thoughts and can sometimes derail these thoughts from becoming overanalyzed. [/b] Yeah, I agree. A big time expenditure, though.. Ahg.. thing is, I'm so far behind project wise that I'm sooooo agitated with that by the time I get home from "hanging out" I'm in a fugue state with ideas. I can't go out - last friday I "hung out" at the First Friday event here downtown, ran into all of these people, saw some people playing... it just makes my brain explode, "New Possibilities/New Angles/New Perspectives"... I get home, I'm massively manic; but it SUCKS because [i]it's all in my head and I can't get it all out NOW[/i]. I mean, if I could only just plug my brain up to a CD/DA converter (cerebral>digital) and just offload into it for a few days... [b]Plus, hell, it's fun to hang out with your friends!!![/b] Yeah, but part of my mind is going "you really should be doing this or that..."....

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by M.C. weenie: [b]Chip, Go to bed. Do you ever sleep? :) [/b][/quote]You know I don't... You're actually the one person here that can confirm I'm not kidding when I say "all I do is music"... I'm not really sleeping at all, it's what.. almost 8 am, my brain is wide awake. Went 3 days in a row last week. I'm in bed "enough" I suppose, probably about 5 hours total, but I'm only asleep maybe an hour out of that at this point. I have a student who is a doctor that has been bugging me about trying an SSRI... I suppose I should, my body isn't dealing with this as well as my brain is.

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love Jazz, Classical music, and Rock in that order. But I only play classic rock. Why? Because it's so frickin' easy! :D The closest I get to playing Classical is to play "Classical Gas" and a little bit of "Asturias/Leyenda." And forget Jazz, my favorite. I wouldn't even know where to start, and at age 50, I won't ever get around to trying it. :cry:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I usualy start with a riff from one of the CD's I listen to, and change it around a bit, come up with something completely different and then write music around it with Guitar Pro 3. I'll find elements of the music I listen to creeping in, but it's still an original composition on my part. My music usualy ends up not quite as heavy as what I'm listening to. I listen to Tool, Monster Magnet, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, stuff like that as well as classic rock like AC/DC, CCR, Boston, and The Eagles. My music is closer to rock than metal. I also listen to Garbage, No Doubt, and the Sneaker Pimps, all good pop music. That might have some effect on the music that I write.

BlueStrat

a.k.a. "El Guapo" ;)

 

...Better fuzz through science...

 

http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a keyboard player in my late 40's, so I constantly listen to all the guys that a piano player in his late 40's would: Keith Jarrett, Herbie Hancock, Chick,etc.......but I write simple minded jingles for a living. I've found a balance that I can live with. I hope I get the chance to do something a little more serious someday, but I am very thankful for all the work.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
What the hell, I'll bite. First of all, great Chip McDonald thread. Second of all, I'm also the kind of person who is constantly working on my own stuff to listen to a lot of other stuff, however, most of my songs tend to be slow- to mid-tempo songs with simple terraced structure. I have one song that is the same chord over and over and it is just a really good song. I'm fairly prolific and write most of my stuff within about two hours' time, later preening the song if necessary. The whole Ashlee Simpson thing produced my latest song, Just Friends, as I liked the riff that the guitar player played on the botched song and attempted to emulate it. Thank goodness that the vocals didn't get in the way. Also thank goodness that my own emotions produced whatever it is they did and helped me write the song. If this helps anyone else, then I am glad. John [url=http://www.khuh.org/johnlampson]John\'s Songs[/url]

-----------

John\'s Songs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I listen to is pretty varied: coal chamber, nine inch nails, sevendust, stone temple pilots, the cure, depeche mode, type o negative, tori amos, fiona apple, stevie ray vaughan, lennon murphy, frank sinatra.. But mostly what I play/write is based off ambient, and the only ambient CD I have (though I have some game soundtracks that are musical or ambient) is of "Nostalgia". I guess the reason my music isn't in the other genres is because... well, I have a guitar, but recording direct sucks, and I can't do anything other than that for now - so I'm not doing hard rock like I wanted to do for yeaaaars... and I'm not that great of a piano player besides coming up with useable melodies, so I hardly write piano oriented stuff...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]Originally posted by dr destructo: [b]Are the two one in the same or are they different? [/b][/quote]I'd have to be a hell of a lot better player and more well-rounded -- and a multi-instrumentalist -- to play what I listen to... which ranges from George Jones to Big Youth to Sonic Youth to George Gershwin and spills all over the boundaries. I have a subscription to my local symphony and spent some of the best years of my life in pogo pits. (Notice period reference.) My own music ranges from country to electronica, with lots of blues and dub influences. [url=http://www.onebluenine.com]www.onebluenine.com[/url]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...