What you listen to vs. What you write/play...

[the stranger]

Are the two one in the same or are they different? I do write a lot of stuff that is definitely influenced by my listening tastes. But I also write music that isn't indicative of what I listen to. What is funny is the latter is the music I'm more proud of. The stuff that isn't a direct product of what I listen to seems more original, where as the other music has all the "isms" of the genres I listen to. Popmusics thread got me thinking of this. I really think that the music that you "listened to" (were exposed to) at the earliest ages (0-3) has the most profound impact on what you will end up playing as a musician. I'm of course thinking of the studies that have shown how much a persons neural pathways are shaped at these ages. I also think these early exposures have a large (but not exclusive) impact on what we will like to listen to. I'm a sucker for a good melody. I surely didn't get this from listening to grindcore. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] My Mom has stated that she played classical for us when we (my sister) were babies. Of course, I'm a very political person and LOVE a band with a strong message or political overtones. Could this be a result of being born in 1969? Being the child of hippies? So I think that our experiences as very young children has the most profound impact on what we will listen to and play as artists.

[strat0124]

Excellent post....I listen to such a wide range of music which includes indigenous stuff from all over the world. I'm not talking pop music from a given country....the folk music of a given country to me is the most exciting. I get in a Tex Mex mood or a Cajun mood now and again.....then there's the blues that's constantly on at home. I always listen to public radio at night....where I got turned on to Cuban music (via Ry Cooder). I always dug "sounds from the hearts of space", as well as "Thistle and Shamrock". I love the Alt Country scene. I'm not a big fan of the current popular stuff you hear on the radio, though every once in a while there's something good playing (Lucinda in on now...as is Susan Tedeschi). I still love Peter Gabriel era Genesis, and Zepplin....and all the music I listened to as a teenager. I still crank up my truck radio every single time I hear Brown Sugar. The music we play is also different than the music I write at home as well.....though I write with our singer. We are an alt-country/blues/rootsrock/comedy band.....hard to define. The music I write seems to always sound like Ry Cooder's and Bonnie Raitt's illegitimate kids music. Just like that mix. But when I collaborate it's always leaning toward what the singer is looking for. Dancing with the one that brought me so to speak. I also love to hear Hovaness (spelling?) string orchestrations. Really intense emotional music. I could go on forever citing a fave piece of music....but I'll leave it at these few. Great post.

[-]

I think it was Herbie Hancock who said something like, "You can always hear more than what you can play. Always remember that when you get frustrated with your playing." As I mentioned on the other thread, I'm a sucker for Brazillian popular music. However, the stuff I write sounds nothing like it... My stuff is more in a guitar pop vein. It's great to have your mind expanded by stuff that's as harmonically and rhythmically rich as Brazillian music... But that doesn't mean my own music reaches the same level of sophistication (nor do I want it to). Here's an example.... I was a Computer Science major the second time (!) I went to college. I had to take a bunch of tough calculus classes. It was good practice for expanding my mind, but I *rarely* use that stuff when I'm actually programming. Listening to stuff that's more advanced or vastly different than what you actually create is good practice to keep your mind open to all of music's endless possibilities ... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] This message has been edited by popmusic on 07-25-2001 at 03:25 PM

[RecreationalThinker]

Good topic! I also have somewhat of a split personality when it comes to composing. I find myself frequently falling into the same old habits when I am working on something akin to what I enjoy. I really love the old Prog rock, but I have had the most monetary success writing C&W - something I [i]rarely[/i] listen to. Actually, I just do the music, and depend on others for the lyrics. I also think that there is [i]some[/i] validity to what you say about how our listening tastes are determined at a very young age. I am the 11th out of 13 children (born in 1960), and my oldest sister babysat all of us younger kids. My earliest musical memories are of the Beatles and the Supremes, her favorite groups. Consequently, I am also a sucker for a good melody. From what I recall when getting my Psych degree, the neural development which occurs between birth and the age of 3 does establish some trends, specifically for language acquisition. But, recent studies have shown that important neural pathways continue to develop over a much longer period of time. So, we may be "primed" at a very early age to be receptive to a certain type of music, but we are still capable of change (thank goodness!). Maybe our affinity for a certain type of music is based on the tendency of the brain to look for familiarity, and our expanding tastes are based on the contradictory neural tendency to shut out overly-familiar stimuli? Oops, this is getting murky...sorry for the pontification. I'll go have a donut now. ------------------ What's on, your mind?

[rumpelstiltskin.]

i grew up listening to jazz and classical and oldies. i really love stan kenton, antonin dvorak, and chuck mangione. consequently, i'm a sucker for a really good, dissonant melody. that and lots of trumpets. i write melodic rock in the vein of boston, weezer, smashing pumpkins, HUM...

[Emile]

For the past year I've been composing and producing a lot of loop based dancish stuff for a project. And it's exactly the opposite of what I like to listen to. I have a good time doing it but maybe because of that I need to hear human performance and human interaction in music, so lately I have been listening to stuff like Miles Davis and Coltrane (Kind of blue and Love supreme era), Ella Fitzgerald, Sinatra & Ellington, Tom Waits, Cowboy Junkies, mellow oldish stuff I guess. I spend a lot of time alone tweaking on my Pro Tool rig and when I'm done working I just want to hear real people play. I'm a guitarist so I just improvise along those above mentionned records. I also try to write simple songs that have nothing to do with that either. I don't listen to guitar music although in my formative years I did. My own music is pretty much pop. Go figure! Emile

[Scott from MA]

Ahhh... the old "who are your influences" trap! I get tripped-up by this all the time. People ask me who my major influences are, and I list the songwriters who have provided me with inspiration. Then they hear my music and say, "This doesn't sound anything like the people you mentioned." I always laugh, then point out to them that they asked for my "influences", not who I sound like! I always list Bob Mould as my biggest influence, but my music sounds NOTHING like his. While his music, his lyrics, and his style have always impressed me, it's his determination and ability to re-invent himself that inspire me most. ------------------ [b]Scott[/b] (just another cantankerous bastard) This message has been edited by Scott from MA on 07-25-2001 at 11:42 PM

[ricknbokker]

Jeez, you guys are too good at this, man!!! My influences are also all over the map, with a particular bent towards late 60's and early 70's AM radio. I was 6-9 years old during that era. So my stuff tends to run in the vein of The Beach Boys meets Steely Dan meets ELO meets Squeeze and/or 10cc. What the hell does THAT mean??!! Ocasionally, you may here a chord change reminiscent of Gilbert O'sullivan... I'm a victim of all of it. You can see how it's tearing me up... [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Steve

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by dr destructo: [b]I really think that the music that you "listened to" (were exposed to) at the earliest ages (0-3) has the most profound impact on what you will end up playing as a musician.[/b][/quote] Around the time I was still fetal, it was apparently all the rage to get a pair of headphones, wrap them around the mother's belly, and blast classical music at the womb.... Apparently I was given a regular diet of Bach preludes, Mozart, Tchaikovsky (played by Van Cliburn), and some other assorted things (I think Louis Armstrong got in there along with some "The Sounds of Modern Jazz". POST WOMB: Used to listen to the Carpenters A LOT until I was maybe 6 (there's a picture of me on my webpage as a little kid with head phones on - chances are I was listening to the Carpenters then...). I remember playing a 45 of Eleanor Rigby and A Day in the Life a lot in the garage... .. at which point an older cousin moved in who had a Early 70's Hi Fi Approved Stereo. Between 6 and maybe 9 I listened daily to Beatles, James Taylor, Paul Simon, assorted classical and jazz. At 9, I got a turntable for my little stereo for Christmas. Started listening to Pink Floyd, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix and ELO. The funny thing is - I *still* like listening to all of that stuff. I don't understand the "I *used* to like listening to it" routine - I have to say "are you *sure* you really liked it in the first place?". When I was 3 or 4 listening to the Carpenters, I remember that I liked the same things I like now: the lush arrangement/production, Karen Carpenter's perfect voice, the melodies - why wouldn't I like them now? Between that and my Intra-Womb classical experiences I figure that might explain Natural Ability a good bit... ------------------ [b]New and Improved Music Soon:[/b] http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

[strat0124]

<> Funny you should say that, when my wife was pregnant with my son, I used to put headphones over her belly....and played all kinds of music...we did this almost everyday. Today I have a 17 year old percussionist with damn near perfect pitch, great timing, and an almost encyclopedic knowledge of different genre's grooves...he's almost a random access groove meister. He's really into his kit and different percussion things. He reads, and writes as well. I think those headphones paid off.

[D. Gauss]

<> i usually listen to the all-news radio station (NY radio just sucks), but the tunes i write don't sound much like "recapping today's top story..." -d. gauss

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I can't stand some of the stuff I write. But it comes out anyway. Weird, huh? And I listen to a lot of stuff that I'd never consider writing but love to hear it. Out of roughly 300 or so songs that I've written and recorded, I really love maybe eight of them. I only [i]like[/i] less than half of them. And a few dozen are really, really, amazingly horrible tunes that I started hating before I even finished recording. As I said, weird, huh? - Jeff

[-]

[quote]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [b]Out of roughly 300 or so songs that I've written and recorded, I really love maybe eight of them. I only [i]like[/i] less than half of them. And a few dozen are really, really, amazingly horrible tunes that I started hating before I even finished recording. As I said, weird, huh?[/b][/quote] Nope -- that's about my ratio, too. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[phaeton]

[b] Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: Out of roughly 300 or so songs that I've written and recorded, I really love maybe eight of them. I only like less than half of them. And a few dozen are really, really, amazingly horrible tunes that I started hating before I even finished recording. As I said, weird, huh?[/b] Maybe, Although i often find that i produce less songs, but i like each and every damn one of them, for one reason or another. Essentially though, I still pretty much like everything i've ever liked, and usually for the same reasons.

[Skip_dup1]

I think most of my songs are equally solid and coherent, unless they`re just not finished yet. That doesn`t mean other people will think so of course, but whatever... Lately I`ve been listening to what the marketing people call nu-metal, but I have very little original that`s that heavy and I`m not into screaming into a mic AT all. But I also like `hearts of space` type music and everything in between.

[ernest828]

I`ll be the first to admit that I try to write songs like the ones I respect. Artists like U2 and Coldplay are currently in my CD and thats where I draw inspiration. I think its very difficult to write something totally different that what you are listening to but its possible. Some of my most creative stuff (IMO) is very good but not always the most accepted by my audience. Peace, Ernest

[fantasticsound]

[quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b] [quote]Originally posted by dr destructo: [b]I really think that the music that you "listened to" (were exposed to) at the earliest ages (0-3) has the most profound impact on what you will end up playing as a musician.[/b][/quote]Around the time I was still fetal, it was apparently all the rage to get a pair of headphones, wrap them around the mother's belly, and blast classical music at the womb.... Apparently I was given a regular diet of Bach preludes, Mozart, Tchaikovsky (played by Van Cliburn), and some other assorted things (I think Louis Armstrong got in there along with some "The Sounds of Modern Jazz". POST WOMB: Used to listen to the Carpenters A LOT until I was maybe 6 (there's a picture of me on my webpage as a little kid with head phones on - chances are I was listening to the Carpenters then...). I remember playing a 45 of Eleanor Rigby and A Day in the Life a lot in the garage... .. at which point an older cousin moved in who had a Early 70's Hi Fi Approved Stereo. Between 6 and maybe 9 I listened daily to Beatles, James Taylor, Paul Simon, assorted classical and jazz. At 9, I got a turntable for my little stereo for Christmas. Started listening to Pink Floyd, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix and ELO. The funny thing is - I *still* like listening to all of that stuff. I don't understand the "I *used* to like listening to it" routine - I have to say "are you *sure* you really liked it in the first place?". When I was 3 or 4 listening to the Carpenters, I remember that I liked the same things I like now: the lush arrangement/production, Karen Carpenter's perfect voice, the melodies - why wouldn't I like them now? Between that and my Intra-Womb classical experiences I figure that might explain Natural Ability a good bit... [/b][/quote]Ok, Chip... now you're scaring me. :rolleyes: Did we grow up in the same house, in different geographical locations? :D From your description of your musical listening progression, I'd say we were twins, separated at birth. ;)

[Chip McDonald]

I don't know what I'm doing now; a number of people have threatened "intervention" because I keep erasing stuff that they think is cool but I think is neither here nor there. My Major Malfunction appears to be that I refuse to write anything cliche, but when I'm finished I think to myself "where can I play with this? It's not really blues, it's not really rock, it's not really electronica? What is it? Should I be doing this "style"?", then innevitably I erase it a month or so later because I hate it, or it reminds me of something I've heard before (can't have that) so "poof!"... I've erased maybe... 15 gigs worth in the past few months. I'm extremely prolific, no problem with ideas, I just can't figure out how to "aim" what I'm doing in a coherent fashion. I don't do pure blues; I don't do pure fusion; I don't do pure "guitar oriented" music; I don't do pure electronica, pure anything. It's all hybrid. So innevitably I have something that has echoes of things I like, except it's so cross-genre that I can't figure out how people will take it. I want to start playing out more, and I want to start pushing the more obvious "guitar hero" side of things since I should capitalize on strengths, right? EXCEPT it bugs the crap out of me to do blatant "guitar oriented" stuff that everyone else is doing. So I have stuff that is sorta funky but psychedelic, stuff that is fusiony but with modern pop drumming, jazzy stuff that is maybe too aggro to call "jazzy", stuff that is probably better suited to vocals but isn't, But I can't just go nuts. So, do I restrict my creativity to one angle? Or do I split things into serparate projects ("blues" band, "guitar" band, "jazz" )... ahg. ahhg.

[Salyphus]

What's the point of erasing things? Why not just get a DVD burner. YOU aren't necessarily the best judge of what music of yours is best you know ;)

[KenElevenShadows]

Chip wrote: So I have stuff that is sorta funky but psychedelic, stuff that is fusiony but with modern pop drumming, jazzy stuff that is maybe too aggro to call "jazzy", stuff that is probably better suited to vocals but isn't... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One persons's opinion: If I worried about what to do with my music after I created it, I would make nothing. People are always saying that a lot of my music is different, weird, esoteric, etc. Who cares? Why do you get hung up on this? What you are describing doesn't even sound weird at all. Don't think about this too much. Just do it. You are analyzing what you think you are supposed to do too much. Do it. Feel it. Let it come out. Let it evolve naturally. Then again, if you are erasing stuff, you probably weren't terribly fond of it in the first place...

[Gulliver]

Erasing things is too easy...

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [b]Did we grow up in the same house, in different geographical locations? :D From your description of your musical listening progression, I'd say we were twins, separated at birth. ;) [/b][/quote]I dunno - unless my imaginary friend wasn't imaginary..? I did have a cat named "Robbie" that looked a lot like your icon back then...

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by Salo: [b]What's the point of erasing things? Why not just get a DVD burner. YOU aren't necessarily the best judge of what music of yours is best you know ;) [/b][/quote]Yeah, I want a DVD burner. BUT... still, it's just "clutter". And how can I judge? I don't want to let others hear my goofing off, even if they think it's ok or whatever, because I dunno.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: [b] If I worried about what to do with my music after I created it, I would make nothing. [/b][/quote]If I worried about it *while* I made it, I might make nothing, but that's not the problem. The problem is being in one "mood" while doing a piece of music, coming back to it later and thinking "that was the wrong angle/mood/vibe/point of reference". It's actually a process of being overly critical, but... ack. I dunno, I need more sleep I suppose. I've thought my way into Perfect Objectivity which means basically everything sucks to someone somewhere so therefore everything isn't worth doing. Right? [b]People are always saying that a lot of my music is different, weird, esoteric, etc. Who cares?[/b] I don't care if they think it's esoteric. The problem is a commonality that allows me to focus things in a certain direction, either for the intent of playing live or for a CD. [b] Why do you get hung up on this? What you are describing doesn't even sound weird at all. Don't think about this too much. Just do it. [/b] I don't know. I think about everything 2x too much, that's my Achille's heel. I've started thinking about this because I went to lunch with a student a couple of weeks ago, and I happened to have a "beta" cd of some new things in the car... I rapidly scanned through them (about 10 "songs") and quickly took it out, because it's just skeleton/scratch tracks/comps. *I* thought they were all scattered, maybe too weak conceptually, and not realized well enough. Apparently the guy went back and went on and on about it to everyone at work. The manager of the store is another former student of mine, known him since 6th grade... he tells me on the phone a few days ago "when are you going to let us hear this stuff you let Clayton hear the other day?"... so I tell him "well... that stuff doesn't exactly exist anymore..." and he tells me that apparently, everyone has this little story about how they hear something I'm working on and they think it's great, but I don't and it's a funny joke that way behind my back apparently. I haven't taken this seriously, but I suppose I should; but again, A) I don't know how to cull my output accordingly and B) I still don't know how to promote it if it's not ... readily obvious what angle it is. [b]You are analyzing what you think you are supposed to do too much. Do it. Feel it. Let it come out. Let it evolve naturally. [/b] Well, letting it out isn't the problem,I'm pretty much exploding all the time . It's knowing how to manage my time towards culling that into a goal. If I've got 40 pieces of music and I've only got time and resources to make one CD - if all of those pieces are disparate style wise, do I find the "center"? Or do I pick a target and arrange accordingly? Or "what"? [b]Then again, if you are erasing stuff, you probably weren't terribly fond of it in the first place...[/b] No, I was, but my ... objectivity gets cranked up too high. I regret erasing a lot of stuff, but I think to myself "if any of it is worth saving it'll come out later anyhow". I don't erase it because I hate it really, as much as it's practical - I only have so much room on my drives and it gets out of hand looking at literally 150 folders worth of projects. Then it gets back to the mission-creep situation: what rises to the top? I might like *all* of it, but just hate the present incarnation because of the scratch-track nature of it, but then the question is "what should I devote time to?".

[mark_dog]

yep a lot is the same I listen to a lot of music after I listen to an album and I go to wrtie something, it sounds similar Some of the stuff I write seems to come off as Alternative Rock which I'm not really in to :confused:

[Raymar]

I listen to jazz mostly followed by classical because its always on the radio, very little rock which is where I came from. As for my creative genre ambient I've got CDs, tapes, mp3s but I don't listen to that much of it(although I have in the past), I hardly listen to myself unless I'm mastering some of it. Over the last year I'd write something in MIDI, wait a couple weeks, create some more, wait a month, a couple months like that, and towards the end of the year I was suprised I'd created as much music as I did! Now if I rehearsed and played live I'd obviously listen to more of my own stuff and create more in public.

[The Bear Jew]

I listen to a lot of different stuff: rock, jazz, metal, punk, country, soul, hip-hop, hardcore and all kinds of permutations of the above. What do I play? All kinds of stuff. Rock, metal, country, hardcore... whatever. That's why I play with three different bands -- so I can do whatever I wanna do. Now, having said this, I don't think I'm particularly GOOD at any of these things. I just play my versions of them. I like it. [quote] originall posted by Chip the insomniac virtuouso: It's actually a process of being overly critical, but... ack. I dunno, I need more sleep I suppose. I've thought my way into Perfect Objectivity which means basically everything sucks to someone somewhere so therefore everything isn't worth doing. Right? [/quote]Chip... I've heard your stuff. I wish I could play as many different things as well as you can. I usually just dick around until I find something I like. Maybe I'm lucky that I'm sort of musically stupid -- I just do what I do because it's what I do. As soon as I'm done, I run around and tell everyone about it and play it for them. It might suck, but I don't know any better. You, on the other hand, can do anything musically.... really well. And you sit on it. Or erase it. Dude... no offense. STOP THINKING! Write and play what you play. Put it on a CD. It's all your stuff, right? OK then... don't worry about whether it fits into any particular genre or if it all hangs together. It all represents part of you, so it's all valid. Don't think so much. Be impulsive and daring... Just say, "Fuck it," and burn 50 CDs with your three most recently recorded tracks and hand them to random people hanging out at a music store. Or maybe I just don't know shit.

[Gabriel E.]

Great thread. My listening tastes are all over the place. Metal, R&B, Drum N' Bass, pop (big into Peter Gabriel and Tori Amos), older Soul, jazz and some country. Main guitar heroes growing up were mostly metal guys or blues guys. My own music is instrumental country/jazz stuff. Probably by necessity since I haven't played with anyone steadily for a while.

[Gulliver]

I still listen to a lot of prog these days... You know, that virtuosic prog which is played by extraordinary musicians in real time (Dixie Dregs, Dream Theater, Transatlantic, Spock's Beard, Steve Vai, Steve Morse, Planet X... etc.) Can't help, just love such a crazy stuff. :D But my writing "habits" are more and more leaning toward ambient, electronic music which is a way simpler than my usual listening "menu". I guess I just finally learned that it's NO WAY I can successfully simulate a real band consisting of real musicians (who are true virtuosos of their respective instruments to boot!) with just a couple of keyboards, a dozen of sample CDs, a computer and my humble abilities. :rolleyes: But then again, I listen to a lot of proggy stuff with elements of ambient and electronica as well (Ozric Tentacles, Chroma Key, OSI...)

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by CMDN: [b]Be impulsive and daring... Just say, "Fuck it," and burn 50 CDs with your three most recently recorded tracks and hand them to random people hanging out at a music store. Or maybe I just don't know shit.[/b][/quote](first off, thanks for the kudos...)... Yeah, that is a strategy.. but I'm strapped with the problem of "if I do this then this is what I'll be to all of these people".. I mean... The sound files I have up aren't representational, they have nothing to do with what I do really, it's just like you say "here's some stuff", except it's not even the demo quality level, just goofing off bs either with those one-off improv bands or whatever (I'm not even sure what I've got online)... geez, I'm getting a headache thinking about it. If I just put an assortment out, my feeling is that the only reaction to that would be mediocre, since it's not going to wholly appeal to anyone at all - as opposed to trying to pick and choose/narrowcast more, whereby people will either like it or not... Then I have to consider the notion of perhaps pushing the guitar playing side to take advantage of that, but then.. ahg. Everybody tells me I think too much. I agree, but I can't stop it. Seems to be getting worse lately. I'll shut up now.. Thanks