Metal_Boy16 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I know many scales have a certain voicing or 'color'. My band teacher was playing a chord on the piano and said "back in the old days, they used to call this the 'Satan's Chord', because it sounded so dark and evil." ClarkW recently said, in one of his post, that he likes to play the Locrian mode/scale because it is the "epitome of tension and anger". I agree! What other scales out there have certain voicings? I've heard that minor scales tend to sound "sad". "If only I had HIS chops!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Phil Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 well I think the Mixolydian mode sounds egyption... What exactly was this "Satan's Chord"?? I would like to hear it. http://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/blue.JPGhttp://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/black.JPGhttp://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/fuscia.JPGhttp://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/grey.JPGhttp://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/orange.JPGhttp://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/purple.JPGhttp://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/red.JPGhttp://www.briantimpe.com/images/LDL/dots/yellow.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian101 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 check out the bass grimore, it has the most scales I have ever seen in a book(along with descriptions on their structures) "A is A"-the people of tunagialand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooky Mogessi Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 OO I know this (thank you music theory class). My teacher said the Tritone, which is a note and an augmented 4/diminished 5 above it is the devils interval. We just recently started doing ear training with triads determining if they were minor, major, augmented, or diminished. My friend and I came up with a nice little saying to help us... Happy/sad/scary/suspensful. happy is major, sad is minor, scary is diminished and suspensful is augmented. Seems to work for us. "Cliff Burton (the "Major rager of the 4-string mother f***er", from Metallica)" Direct quote from Wikipedia (censored out of respect for the forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 How about Scriabin's "Prometheus Chord". check out this quote: Prometheus introduces the new 'stable' harmony - a chord based essentially on the first eleven partials of the overtone series. Voiced in fourths, this 'mystic' chord is spelled C-F#-B flat-E-A-D. All four chord qualities are possible from this collection. The interlocking tritones (the first four notes) become almost essential for the remainder of Scriabin's life. The scale possibilities include the 'acoustic' mode of Debussy, the whole-tone scale, and the octatonic scale. All harmonic motion and melodic material was derived from this harmony or subtle chromatic variants of it. In modern Jazz notation, this can be understood as a fully extended dominant-thirteenth chord. The tritone root motion also resembles the 'tritone substitution' common in Jazz harmonic procedures. In Classical terms, what is tonic for common practice becomes dominant in Scriabin; and what is dominant becomes 'departure dominant'. Non-chord tones are still treated as such and are 'resolved'. In addition to tritones, the root motion consists mainly of major and minor thirds, all of which divide the octave equally. His systematic approach and his treatment of all twelve notes as equal, as well as his apparent break from tonality as it was known, predates Schoenberg's serial dodecaphonicism by almost a decade. There is a little value in the study of "classical" music. Another composer with a unique view of chords is Messiaen. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetgtree Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 ummm... that is exactly what I was thinking... *continues to drool on himself* www.geocities.com/nk_bass/enter.html Still working on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Satan doesn't have a chord. Satan has first year violin students. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by Metal_Boy14: minor scales tend to sound "sad".Yeah, it's part of a...trilogy really, a musical trilogy I'm doing... in... D minor, which I always find is really the saddest of all keys really. I don't know why, but it makes people weep instantly. robb. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
462 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by robb.: Originally posted by Metal_Boy14: minor scales tend to sound "sad".Yeah, it's part of a...trilogy really, a musical trilogy I'm doing... in... D minor, which I always find is really the saddest of all keys really. I don't know why, but it makes people weep instantly. robb.Aw you beat me to it These words, are sledgehammers of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by Dan South: Satan doesn't have a chord. Satan has first year violin students. I better change my avatar image before he gets me...or...maybe he already hasssss. Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAshkenazi Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by Dan South: Satan doesn't have a chord. Satan has first year violin students.Or oboe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by rockinredneck69: I better change my vivitar image before he gets me...or...maybe he already hasssss. vivitar is a camera company. the image beneath your screen name is an avatar. garçon means "boy". robb. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by Penguinsarebirds: OO I know this (thank you music theory class). My teacher said the Tritone, which is a note and an augmented 4/diminished 5 above it is the devils interval...The tritone was called the "diabolus en musica", the Devil in the music. It's because it can resolve anywhere or nowhere. Those Middle Ages guys tended to stick to "perfect" 4ths and 5ths, not being real comfortable with a lot of flexibility... And, Robb, do you have a title for that D minor piece yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 "Lick My Love Pump" has a nice ring to it. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guy Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by RichardAshkenazi: Originally posted by Dan South: Satan doesn't have a chord. Satan has first year violin students.Or oboe.Or clarinet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Wilburn Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by The Guy: Originally posted by RichardAshkenazi: Originally posted by Dan South: Satan doesn't have a chord. Satan has first year violin students.Or oboe.Or clarinetHey! As a former clarinet player I... ...find myself having to agree completely. Ugh. The squeaking doesn't stop for a year or so. Four String Riot the myspaces, we hates it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolomite Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by chad: Originally posted by Penguinsarebirds: OO I know this (thank you music theory class). My teacher said the Tritone, which is a note and an augmented 4/diminished 5 above it is the devils interval...The tritone was called the "diabolus en musica", the Devil in the music. It's because it can resolve anywhere or nowhere. Those Middle Ages guys tended to stick to "perfect" 4ths and 5ths, not being real comfortable with a lot of flexibility... And, Robb, do you have a title for that D minor piece yet? We actually did a piece called "diabolus en musica" based on this theory....And no we are not satanic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooky Mogessi Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by chad: Originally posted by Penguinsarebirds: OO I know this (thank you music theory class). My teacher said the Tritone, which is a note and an augmented 4/diminished 5 above it is the devils interval...The tritone was called the "diabolus en musica", the Devil in the music. It's because it can resolve anywhere or nowhere. Those Middle Ages guys tended to stick to "perfect" 4ths and 5ths, not being real comfortable with a lot of flexibility... That is so cool. learn something new everyday "Cliff Burton (the "Major rager of the 4-string mother f***er", from Metallica)" Direct quote from Wikipedia (censored out of respect for the forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbn Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by ian101: check out the bass grimore, it has the most scales I have ever seen in a book(along with descriptions on their structures)"The Bass Grimoire" by Adam Kadmon. I actually just picked it up and it is absolutely amazing. The book has 20 pages that tell you how to read the scales and then 120 pages of scales. I spent 2 hours playing through some of it today. Now I have a headache...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by Dan South: Satan doesn't have a chord. Satan has first year violin students. And second year. And third year, And fourth year, And fifth year, and so on. I've seen the evil work every day. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 It seems really ironic to me that the tritone is considered somehow satanic, when used as a transitional chord it can sound really melodic, check that Smashmouth song "hey now your a rockstar" the chorus chords go like, Gmaj to Cmaj to C#dim(Tritone) to Cmaj and it sounds sweet. In isolation like Korn tend to use it,tritones sound pretty evil, but then again Korn could make a Maj7 chord sound pretty evil. Check Thelonious Monks work in Jazz his use of tritones is also really melodically cool. I think as with most things the church should stick to what it does best, conning people out of their hard earned money and providing a refuge for sexual deviates. Music : in the ear of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Music theory is usually just a way of dimly understanding the constructs of harmony as used in a given period of history. As people search out different ways to construct music harmonically, Theory advances in an effort to encompass what is actually in practice, or to work as a blueprint for "newer" explorations. The very good examples and discussions by Jeremy and a couple others are a more advanced version of Theory than what existed when music was harmonically simpler {Theory .7 (beta) vs Theory 3.2 ; }. Each revision or version is still is only one way to analyze what is going on, and applies more to some historical styles of music than others ... though underlying it all are certain guidelines that will always be useful in the exploration and construction of music. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Originally posted by Phil-diggity-dog: well I think the Mixolydian mode sounds egyption... What exactly was this "Satan's Chord"?? I would like to hear it. Well, if you listen to the old time bluegrass boys around here, it's anything EXCEPT G, C, and D... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 A lot of harmony Theory's advancement has been predicated on the adoption of the even-tempered scale, which due to mechanical instruments' limitations compromised on totally consonant intervals to allow modulation to less related tonal centers within a single piece of music. I think this also predicated the stacking of chords beyond quartal, quintal, and triadal. For quite a long period in Western and popular music it has looked like rhythmic exploration and microtonal and consonance explorations have taken a back seat to even-tempered harmony advancements, but with all the interest in music of other cultures and periods, and the influences of rock songform and diatonic and blues tendencies, there are PLENTY of ways to appear to break western theory rules or disregard them if one has an itch ; } ...and of course there have been some explorers of microtuning who have looked to other cultures and Bach and before to take a different tack as regards what is important in harmony. Blah blah blah blah ; } . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I like the way a lot of modern rock-oriented and harder "fusion"-orineted players - and some of the "serious" composers since around Debussy (just a ferinstance - not an absolute) - have made theoreticians scramble in attempt to analyze everything as they are used to - in terms of tertiary stacking. Some of these people may be using quartal and triadic devices playing their own parts, but they are in a mix where other players are seeing maybe the same tonal center but may be playing DIFFERENT stacks - thus it is often easier to notate and think in such music with devices like D/E than it is to call such moments Esus9 (no 7) or some other similarly clumsy construct. It gets worse when players are adding 7ths and 9ths or playing quartal and other convenient shapes (Chuck Berry as the protoform?) on their fretboards while the bassist goes merrily on his rhythmic way with melodic lines that take so muchg more time to analyze each moment than it does just to think about "Tendencies" - ie, certain scale/modes notes favored regardless of what is above, etc. I think there are a lot of variances today that are just about as related to Ornette Coleman's Harmolodic theory/philosphophy as they are to the type of theory embraced by mainstream jazz. At least there are more ways to look at what is going on, especially since "electric" music made it possible for smaller ensembles to have instruments that could change the center of gravity in the mix. Nowdays a bassist can really "rename" a chord by playing whatever note he wants at appropriate tone and volume - artfulness being in choosing the right ones to establish patterns, consistency, structure. So can a guitarist or keyboardist, and they do not necessarily need to adhere to jazz/classical theoretical practices to do some really cool-sounding stuff. They CAN use and benefit from "rules", but they can also find their own logics too, and make compelling music! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplitNick Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 JeremyC-Looking at your Scriabin's chord, reminds me of the Russell Lydian principle. It's a lot different, but still in a similar vein. We must accept the consequences of being ourselves-Sojourn of Arjuna Music at www.moporoco.com/nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 You're right on, SplitNick. I went through George Russell's book The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization pretty thoroughly at one time in the misty past....not long after I discovered Scriabin. Aside: Whoa, the book is up to $125 now! I think I bought mine for about $25 (it was 30 years ago, though). Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 I was going to mention Russell eventually. A lot of theories and philosphies of music making seem to be a lot like what is at the center of myths, legend, lore, and spiritual beliefs at various periods and locales historically. The Truths in music or spiritual beliefs perhaps exist strongly enough that people from various cultures percieve much of the common aspects while describing those absolutes (?) or tendencies from their own perspectives. That's partly why exploring music theory - or psychoacoustics, or chaos theoires, or reocurring patterns in nature - can be so fascinating. All those mysteries that seem to have some incredible mathematician behind them, with just small pieces of the algorithms or formulas understood intellectually by us! Sometimes we do better INSTINCTUALLY as living exmaples of spirit and nature than we do as algrebra students trying to understand the Big Entity's multidimensional arrays and how they are unified. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Thorne Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Originally posted by Jezza: I think as with most things the church should stick to what it does best, conning people out of their hard earned money and providing a refuge for sexual deviates...To be fair, if you watch "Bobby Jones Gospel" on BET on Sunday mornings you'll hear lots of tritones, as well as in (white) Southern Gospel, a fusion of mountain music, hymnody, and (yep) the blues. The "diabolus en musica" was an issue for the Church many centuries ago, and a lot has changed since then. And I'd submit, respectfully, that despite its well-documented problems with greed and sexual deviance, the Church (I mean the whole Church, not just the Roman Catholics or any other discrete segment) has done much good in the world and continues to do so. If anybody's interested, e-mail me and I'll be happy to provide specific examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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