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what's someone's definitions of selling out? just to use a few big sell out examples... say umm limp bizkit? sell outs because they changed their style to sell, got cocky and attracted too many little teeny bopper fans, as compared to their original style? personally any band who changes their music for the purpose of money is selling out. i hate when bands do that.
- roses on your breath but graveyards on your soul -
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I don't know about selling out. I do think it's tragic when people refuse to perform certain tunes just because the song is popular. Success doesn't always mean something is crap. A keyboard player I used to play with would adamently refuse to do any song that was enjoying commercial success, insisting to do obscure numbers (in cases when we would not be doing original material.) Today, he's won several Cleo awards- for writing and producing music- for advertising. ;)

"We are the Federales... You know, the Mounted Police..."

---"If you're the police, where are your badges?"

"Bodges?..."

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Artists have always had to walk the razors edge between the delicate balance of being an "artist",and a commodity.Artists always asking for support from the community,I say support your self,by doing something that people will pay to hear.If that's selling out,so be it.
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Exactly,You work to build an audience,give'm what they want.It's cool to play for yourself .But doesn't that defeat the purpose if you want to be heard.I'm not saying to not be yourself,just be a marketable version of yourself.
jgc2002 is not responsible for damages ,injuries and or death as result of above post.Side effects include nasuea,dizziness,dry mouth,vomiting,blurred vision,nervousness,loss of memory and in extreme cases sexual side effects. www.mp3.com/salt_creek
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Let's use Weezer as an example. Blue - great album, it's hard to sell out before you know you sell. Pinkerton - they chose not to sell out and rewrite 'Buddy Holly' 12 times for they're new album. Pinkerton is great. Green - Oooops, Pinkerton didn't sell. We don't have much money, let's rewrite 'Buddy Holly' twelve times and tune from Eb to E to make people think it's a different album, and use the same photo for the cover, but let the background be green. Our 'fans' with the big bucks will love it, and it's radio friendly, so we'll make new fans that don't know us from Mudhoney. Maladroit - Whew! We've got money again and, luckily, the album that we wanted to release instead of green is released. We just released green because we needed to ease our debt and A&R guys. Now we're a big band.
No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
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What really sucks is all the people who sell out without even making any money off it! One of the principal rules of bargaining is to not make your concessions before you get to the table. I see almost everybody compromising their original vision long before they even can guage the actual audience response. I call this horbittyhaggling, for arcane reasons of my own- everyone has struck some kind of imaginary deal with the market forces of the world, before they even enter the market. Ted

A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!

 

"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau

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I'd hardly call Weezer a sellout band. The definition of sellout varies depending on who you are... to a punk purist, doing anything different than old skool punk is "selling out".. doesn't matter how experimental or avant garde it is, it's a sell out - especially if it sells. But for some people, it's "creative and new", especially if it hasn't caught on with the masses yet. Others couldn't care less about the issue - they either like it or they don't, based on their preferences and the artistic merit of the CD, as judged within the confines of their personal tastes and preferences. I think that if your heart is into it, and you're loving the music you're creating, it will show. Most people may not be able to quantify what that is, but they'll sense the honesty - it will "ring true". When people do stuff solely for the bucks, that usually shows too... Rivers Cuomo is a pop geek. Dress it up in big crunchy guitars, but it's still pop. Okay, power pop... but they guy has ALWAYS written catchy, melodic pop. I didn't see that changing from album to album. BTW, didn't Green sell more than any of their other stuff? Is that why it's considered a "sell out"? For the record, if it wasn't for the gawd awful mastering job, I'd say Maladroit is the "Pet Sounds" of the 00's. The writing is THAT good.
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Everyone sells out. It doesn't matter what kind of job you have. If you don't agree, you're either a naive kid with no mortgage to pay or a rich kid born with a silver spoon in your mouth. I think Maynard James said it best: [b]Hooker With a Penis[/b] I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a Dope Beastie T, nipple rings, and New tattoos that claimed that he Was OGT, From '92, The first EP. And in between Sips of Coke He told me that He thought We were sellin' out, Layin' down, Suckin' up To the man. Well now I've got some A-dvice for you, little buddy. Before you point the finger You should know that I'm the man, And if I'm the man, Then you're the man, and He's the man as well so you can Point that fuckin' finger up your ass. All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record, Dip shit, And you bought one. So I've got some Advice for you, little buddy. Before you point your finger You should know that I'm the man, If I'm the fuckin' man Then you're the fuckin' man as well So you can Point that fuckin' finger up your ass. All you know about me is what I've sold you, Dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record, Dip shit, And you bought one. All you read and Wear or see and Hear on TV Is a product Begging for your Fatass dirty Dollar So...Shut up and Buy my new record Send more money Fuck you, buddy. :freak:
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[quote]Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe: [b]I'd hardly call Weezer a sellout band. The definition of sellout varies depending on who you are... to a punk purist, doing anything different than old skool punk is "selling out".. doesn't matter how experimental or avant garde it is, it's a sell out - especially if it sells. But for some people, it's "creative and new", especially if it hasn't caught on with the masses yet. Others couldn't care less about the issue - they either like it or they don't, based on their preferences and the artistic merit of the CD, as judged within the confines of their personal tastes and preferences. I think that if your heart is into it, and you're loving the music you're creating, it will show. Most people may not be able to quantify what that is, but they'll sense the honesty - it will "ring true". When people do stuff solely for the bucks, that usually shows too... Rivers Cuomo is a pop geek. Dress it up in big crunchy guitars, but it's still pop. Okay, power pop... but they guy has ALWAYS written catchy, melodic pop. I didn't see that changing from album to album. BTW, didn't Green sell more than any of their other stuff? Is that why it's considered a "sell out"? For the record, if it wasn't for the gawd awful mastering job, I'd say Maladroit is the "Pet Sounds" of the 00's. The writing is THAT good.[/b][/quote]Phil, read up on Weezer. They're very open about it. Green out sold Pinkerton 3:1. Blue sold twice as many still. Green is, admittedly, a phuck you to the "fans" that didn't want real music with Pinkerton. Maladroit is great! There's another new one right around the corner. Rivers says he's not afraid anymore and that this new album will be as personal as Pinkerton. Yup, I dig 'em. Peace Phil, theglitch
No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
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My definition of selling out: "Compromising your artistic vision to make your art more sellable." So if you produce something that you love and other people just happen to be willing to pay you gobs of money for it, that's NOT selling out. If you produce something you love and then change it to something you find less satisfactory because some A&R guy says to or because you think it will get you laid, that IS selling out.
"You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer
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[quote]Originally posted by Gabriel E.: [b]because you think it will get you laid, that IS selling out.[/b][/quote]if it gets you laid that's different... remember any hole's a goal.
- roses on your breath but graveyards on your soul -
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[quote]Originally posted by Gabriel E.: [b]My definition of selling out: "Compromising your artistic vision to make your art more sellable." So if you produce something that you love and other people just happen to be willing to pay you gobs of money for it, that's NOT selling out. If you produce something you love and then change it to something you find less satisfactory because some A&R guy says to or because you think it will get you laid, that IS selling out.[/b][/quote]Well, according to the New York Times, get ready to add Korn to that list. Their new album-said to be from a $4 million budget-is a very deliberate attempt to follow the path already established by Metallica. Heavy but mainstream heavy.
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Maybe selling out in music could be equated to "Jump the Shark's" (www.jumptheshark.com) take on TV shows. Here are some suggestions: Replacement of Lead Singer (i.e. Journey, Van Halen) Use of Popular Sampled Riff from former Top 40 song Release of a Remix Album (i.e. Limp Bizkit) Less than 50% of Original Members are still in the band Release of new version of old song (i.e. Police "Don't Stand So Close to Me '86) More suggestions?
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Hmmm... Deep Purple only retains Ian Paice from their original 1968 band, with Don Airey replacing Jon Lord this year. Guess that means they've finally bowed to commercial pressure, and sold out ;-) [quote]Originally posted by felix: [b]Maybe selling out in music could be equated to "Jump the Shark's" (www.jumptheshark.com) take on TV shows. Here are some suggestions: Less than 50% of Original Members are still in the band More suggestions?[/b][/quote]

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

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Remeber Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show? Fantastic stuff. Good ol' boy stuff & then Disc came in. Well THAT was the downfall of the good Dr. & company. They went disco & straight out of existence. That's one sorry sell out.

 

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"When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke...

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[quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [QB]green sucked ass. QB][/quote]you oughta listen to it again. and again. and again just for good measure. 3.5 minute pop songs. with hooks. well crafted. well recorded. well performed. well produced. well managed. well marketed. they had been written off years ago as a one album wonder. regrouped. found out why they were good to begin with. they were FUN. they ARE fun. they seem to be having fun. Back to the topic. What 99.9 % of us wouldn't give to be able to SELL OUT. In order to sell out, you have to have SOLD. Is there any un-pathetic one of us that frequents these boards that has SOLD? REALLY SOLD? MILLIONS OF UNITS? For any reason, right or wrong? Good or bad? Our presence is graced occasionally by a few who HAVE SOLD, and are therefore in a position to SELL OUT, and we should bow to them, ask them as many questions as possible, and thank them for their time. But before we criticize and hypothosize(sic) let's at least sell. THEN, we can sell out. Frank Salazar, hack.
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well this is old but, i remember"feels so good" was a pop hit for one time real good and respected fluegelhorn(sp?) blower 'chuck mangione' and somebody called him a "sellout' and he replied "yeah, i 'sold out' the hollywood bowl!" s :cool:
AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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[quote]Originally posted by spigots: [b] [quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]green sucked ass. [/b][/quote]you oughta listen to it again. and again. and again just for good measure. 3.5 minute pop songs. with hooks. well crafted. well recorded. well performed. well produced. well managed. well marketed. .[/b][/quote]i dont think so. it was shittily recorded, very weak in presentation, mixes were horrible and basically pegged the meters for the full length of it. hash pipe was the only standout [what a suprise] there were some songs it it that could of been so much better to make the album better but the way they are on it makes the album unlistenable. i LIKE weezer, but this was no blue album. definately NOT pinkerton. but i GOT to hear maladroit [or whatever its called]

alphajerk

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"if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson

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I think the concept is a bit naive and perhaps irrelevent in a way. To set up a value system where the quality is inverse to the sales, dooms everything that sells for whatever it's appeal might have been. BUT When I hear Bob Seeger croaking out "Like a Rock...awwww Like A Rock" on the Chevrolet spots, THAT makes my skin crawl; but I know it's makin' the guy some rent money, so it works out, I suppose.

"We are the Federales... You know, the Mounted Police..."

---"If you're the police, where are your badges?"

"Bodges?..."

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