rockinredneck69 Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 I've always been curious as to the techniques that dominate the sounds of rock through the years. My first memories are of watching the apple going around on moms turntable, so bear with me here. Most of the 70's rock sound has a distinctive bass sound to it as does every new style that has followed. That sound that McCartney had seemed to follow through, though maybe not exactly, with bands like the Doobies and Kansas. Of course Geezer started another sound in a way that comes through when you listen to Metallica or Maiden or a score of other bands that have dominated the metal scene. My question is this, is it about technique or is it more about gear? Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 I'm not sure the sound has changed, bass is bass, right? Styles of playing have definitely moved from era to era. Whether or not that's good thing (i.e everyone emulating a particular style all at once) maybe questioned but I think I know what you're on about. Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotosound45 Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 It's a little of both, I think. Bass gear has evolved alot since James Jamerson's days. I was glad to see you credit Geezer for his bass tone. His technique gave him his sound, above gear. I say this because if you gave Justin Chancellor Geezer's P-Bass through an Orange amp, Tool wouldn't sound the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 Good point, if nothing else its gonna be a mix of everything from the player and the gear to whatever is happening on the mix board I suppose. I've just always loved the sound of the bass more on the old Black Sabbath, Beatles, Pink Floyd and Kiss albums than the sometimes "background" sound of what you hear today. The reason I mentioned Geezer Butler is that it seems his style has influenced todays hard rock and metal players (whether they know it or not). At any rate, I just wondered how many others out there would get what I was saying and understand my question. Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Past the invention of round wound strings, the electric bass has not changed much in sound....however the means to record it accurately, amplify it, and reproduce it on a home stereo system has greatly improved. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Jeremy has a great point on amplification and recording. I do think there is something to be said about the advent and acceptance of non-traditional basses, though. Even ten years ago, there were only a handful of basses your average engineer wanted to see; mainly Fender, but you could potentially get away Hofner or a Ric. I say that because 10 years ago, when I went into a studio with a borrowed mid-70's Veilette-Citron neck through (SWEET BASS, borrowed from the former bassist from Crystal Ship, a popular Doors cover band), the engineer rolled his eyes and moaned. Eventually, due to the fact I had doubts regarding the engineer's ability to record a decent sound with the VC, I recorded using a P-Bass. Of course, there have always been progressive engineer, but nowadays, I could probably walk in to an average budget studio with my Warwick without the engineer batting an eye. Just a theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted September 29, 2003 Author Share Posted September 29, 2003 So then I can assume the answer to my question is basically gear. Although part of me understands the bass has and will continue to be the same in the last 30 and next 30 years, I also was hoping for some kind of insight into what "simply" creates the sound I was talking about. Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 The sound that a player gets is due to his technique. That's why we can list famous users of the Jazz Bass or the P Bass or the Rickenbacker or whatever and they don't sound like each other. Technology allows us to hear it. The great players seem to have a sound that comes through no matter what gear they are using or even how badly they were recorded in the old days. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 I agree, it's definitely the player that comes through. But don't only compare the sound of bass of yesteryear, compare music in general. It has changed a lot. Dynamics are gone... everything is loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 What? Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: What?Fair question. Please, allow me to articulate... I don't think one can look at the changes in the sound of bass guitar over the years without looking at recorded music as a whole. I think pop music is SO compressed these days during the mixdown and mastering; engineers just try to squeeze every ounce of volume out of a CD. There are obviously exceptions, but take a listen to most modern pop (I know you don't listen to it J). Almost every album is has only a few decibel difference from the light part to the loud part. I'm obviously talking about recorded music. So, if we're talking about bass sounds of the present compared to bass sounds of the past, the present is definitely impacted by the mixing and mastering of today's engineers. Especially in rock and pop, if you listen to a classic 70's rock album (say Led Zepplin II) and compare it to your average Korn or Sum 41 album, the dynamic range is squashed in the newer album (am I allowed to call CD's albums?). The bass does not have as much space to occupy the mix, so they make modern recorded bass sound punchy instead of smooth. Most older albums have a much smoother bass track. Before I got involved in recording as a hobby, I used to blame this sterile, one-dimensional sound on digital versus analog recording. However, the more I learned, the more I realized it was all about volume. A louder track always sounds better than it's less loud equivalent. Get a loud CD out there, and it's more likely to be listened to at high volume. Get airplay. I think a great example is Santana; there are obviously multiple factors at work, like Mojo, but if you listen to classic recording of Santana versus the more modern recordings, you can hear the difference. Obviously, the classic Santana albums were recorded analog, with a live band setting, and with some FANTASTIC MATERIAL before Carlos went a little over the deep end. So, most players try to emulate what they hear on records, in general. If what they hear is a punchy tone, that's what they go for. Maybe that's why there is a larger acceptance of non-traditional basses, as well. More players are going for that growl and sparkle; more Spectors, Warwicks, Modulus, etc. All of this affects the modern day bass sound. Look at what has happened to guitar sounds recently - a little bass heavy? Ick! Just a theory... think it's bunk? You've done more recording than I have (all of my experience is two-bit demo work). Maybe one of our recording engineer friends can add somethign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Maury, I agree with you. There are no dynamics on recordings and everyone learns how to play by listening to recordings. And now people make recordings without even playing together. Aside: I was so disappointed with Geddy Lee's solo album.....I have been waiting for years to hear him play in a less structured situation than Rush...to hear him play with some other musicians...and what did he do?...he played to samples of another drummer. But I was trying to make a bad joke. everything is loud What? As in I can't hear you. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: But I was trying to make a bad joke. everything is loud What? As in I can't hear you.DOH! I wax profound because I missed a joke! Jeez, I could have saved that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 While the gear from bass to home speaker has certainly evolved, I thing that the sounds of a bass still vary. I think they varied even back in the days of that apple spinning on your record player. Was the sound of the bass on Maxwell's Silver Hammer the same as on Something? I don't have The Beatles Gear Book at hand, but even if he used the same bass on both songs, there are EQ differences. My point is that whenever a bassist wants to alter their sound, they can. So many don't bother, and this fits right in with Maury's "all the sounds are squashed flat" theory. Much of today's work is not that interesting from a "sound" perspective. the last album I listened to that had anything like a varied set of sounds was the Norah Jones album. I've listened to other modern music that I enjoy (Fountains Of Wayne comes to mind), but not with "interesting" bass sounds. What was the question? Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 The sound of the bass on Maxwell's Silver Hammer compared to Something are a bit different yet the same, I think by way of the mixing board. That in essence is the answer to my question, which was how has the sound changed through the decades in especially rock recordings. I don't know the proper terms but it seems the bass on my old records from the 70's have more of a thump to them than some of the rock albums past say, the early 80's. Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by rockinredneck69: "You did'nt know when to run, you missed the starting gun."Hmmm... I thought the line was: No one told you when to run You missed the starting gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 hmmmm, thanks for that. ouch. Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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