Bad habits for a beginner?

[rockinredneck69]

From what I've read here, everybody that posts regularly knows thier stuff. I'm a true beginner who just recently bought a Johnson P-bass and a Peavey practice amp. I tried to mix my ignorance with cheap quality and an understanding that experiance will be my teacher. I've no cash for lessons at the moment and am hoping for any advice on what not to do as far as technique when learning the basics.

[Invincible]

If you can't afford lessons then you might be better off scraping together some money and buying an instruction book aimed at total beginners. Of course if you have a complete cash defficiency then this isn't going to be possible.

But if you do have the money I'm sure some of the other lowdowners can recommend some good instruction books.

[rockinredneck69]

I bought one beginner book with purchase of the bass and another a few weeks later, even aquired an instructional video recently by a neighbor that is learning. I suppose my quandry at the moment is that I'm a perfectionist by nature, so I tend to second-guess myself and am hoping for some advice on anything the books skip over. Since I am just in the scale-learning part of this venture, I can't help but wonder if I am missing something that the books don't tell me.

[Invincible]

If they're good books then I would have thought they would be pretty extensive in their explinations and shouldn't have left anything out.

[rockinredneck69]

Cool...thanks for the "nudge"!

[davebrownbass]

Howdy from Texas, red.

 

There is a pretty nice book called "You Can Teach Yourself Electric Bass" by Mel Bay Publications. I use that sometimes in my lessons.

 

Also, I was thumbing through a "Bass Guitar For Dummies" at a Barnes and Nobles the other day. I felt like it was a very fine reference...a lot of those "Dummy" books are pretty good.

 

You will find a lot of people recommending "The Bass Player Book," a compendium of articles published in Bass Player Magazine. It's also an excellent reference.

 

As far as gear goes...I've had students come in here with those Johnson basses, and they weren't all that bad, as these things go. Certainly better than what I started on 30 years ago.

 

However, I would recommend that you snatch a few dollars together and have a professional setup done on the instrument. You really want to check for a good action and good intonation as a starting point.

[notabob]

i completey agree, but i have never read an instruction book or had a lesson. i watched a video that a guy in my band let me borrow. it was quite helpful. i know when i started out bass101.com had free lessons that were quite informative. my web browser wont load the site tho i am quite positive it is still there. try going there or search for bass lessons on google. hope this helps.

[dcr]

Also, go here:

 

http://www.pnc.com.au/~beehive/pieces.html

 

and start clicking around. I've been quite impressed with the instructional stuff she posts. Also, Carol Kaye is a recording legend, & her site is FULL of instruction, as well as her own instructional books which are plentiful and surprisingly inexpensive:

 

www.carolkaye.com

[Connie Z]

Hi Redneck,

 

As a pretty new player, one thing I can suggest is to learn the correct way to hold and use your hand, wrist and fingers on the fretboard.

 

One recurring problem I have is that I have small hands and this darn neck is soooo long, and the frets are spaced soooo far apart, that I have a super hard time reaching the frets, and I tend to bounce my hand around a lot.

 

They sell basses with shorter necks, and I may get one in the future, but for now... I'd like to just keep working on my technique and stretch my hands.

 

When I watch "seasoned" bass players and guitar players, the biggest advantage that they have over me is that their hand moves very little while they are fretting, within a four fret area. (My hand is all over the place!) This allows them to play much faster and more accurately.

 

Only recently, when our band added some new songs, like "spooky" and "time won't let me" did I get some good (and fun) riffs to work with that have caused me to "work-out" my hand, and it has made a real difference.

 

So... my suggestion would be to read the section of the books about hand position carefully.

Then start watching good, efficient bass players (not the Jaco's - just your local solid bass players).

Then find a couple of songs with riffs that are challenging but fun, and rehearse them until you get them down pretty good.

 

It amazes me now, that the riffs I thought were so hard when I first started are now so easily done! Now I have other riffs that are my nemesis!

 

... connie z

[rockinredneck69]

Originally posted by davebrownbass:

Howdy from Texas, red.

 

 

 

However, I would recommend that you snatch a few dollars together and have a professional setup done on the instrument. You really want to check for a good action and good intonation as a starting point.

Ummm, what does that mean exactly...having a setup done on the instrument?

[rockinredneck69]

Originally posted by Connie Z:

[QB]

 

As a pretty new player, one thing I can suggest is to learn the correct way to hold and use your hand, wrist and fingers on the fretboard.

 

Thats kinda the info I was looking for, also keep coming across varied opinions on finger vs. pick. I've been concentrating on finger style exclusively with an intent to use the pick when I'm good enough to concentrate on something new. I am able to do a bit of walking but for the most part I find myself using my index finger almost exclusively if I don't force myself to alternate. When not making the effort to alternate, my middle finger just kinda waits until needed. Guess what I'm asking about is, should I force myself to alternate at all times or let something that seems natural take the lead?

[Invincible]

It basically where someone will fiddle with all aspects of your bass, that's things like the truss rod and action to get the best sound and generally make it good. I think that's a good explination.

[sixpence_dup1]

setup also involves setting the correct intonation so the tuning remains constant as you go up the neck.

 

check out www.mxtabs.net and www.activebass.com too.

[onamission]

Originally posted by dcr:

Also, go here:

 

http://www.pnc.com.au/~beehive/pieces.html

Excellent site DCR! Thanks! I amazed at all the free useful Bass stuff out there.

[SplitNick]

Pick up a Bass PLayer mag or any other respectable bass oriented magazine...Try to look through and see how pros hold their bass...what type of right hand and left hand postitions they use...Try them...If one is very comfortable to you try that...Learn some ideas about techniques like the movable anchor (right hand thumb positioning) and proper 1 & 2 finger combinations...I have been checking out Adam Nitti's website....There is probably some more advanced stuff on there but it has some really good fundamental stuff as well...You are on the right track with scales...Pay attention to the modes of the scales like C maj (CDEFGABC) from the second or Dorian mode (DEFGABCD) (used a lot in funk)...or the Phrygian mode (EFGABCDE) and so on (lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, locrian...As you go through these think about chord structure (1357-CEGB= C maj7)...(1357-DFAC=D min7)...Sorry if I am going off here but its exciting to me to see someone who is actually learning from the goodfoot.

 

Some sites I go to:

http://www.victorwooten.com/

 

http://www.eddielewis.com/jazz/jtech.htm

 

http://www.realbook.us/

 

http://www.slapit.com/example.html

 

http://www.adamnitti.com/index.shtml

[rockinredneck69]

Forgive me but, what do you mean by "goodfoot"? Other than that my biggest problem right now is my plucking fingers. I keep finding myself using one finger to pluck with, usually the forefinger and then my middle finger reaches when needed. I keep trying to alter my fingers but that only happens if I concentrate very hard and then my fretting suffers. I can't help but wonder if this is going to haunt me later or if it will just turn into my "style". I'm going to skip hunting season this year so I can spend the needed money on lessons, but till then I'm wanting to make sure I aim myself in the right directions.

[doc taz]

Adam Nitti's site is great. Now that I have a five string, I'm gonna peruse that a lot more (as well as other places where I can learn to use the thing to the max). Sure, some will say it's just an extra string, but the neck is wider, and I'd certainly like to do it right. (Originally, I planned on getting a six, but I figured a five would be fine for at least the next few years. Not to mention the price I paid for it... )

 

Personally, one thing I'd recommend is not to get into the temptation of playing your bass too low, especially when standing up. Unfortunately, some of us rockers fall into that path, and develop some bad habits that way. I try to maintain a classical guitar-like position when playing (though I like to rock n' thrash too).

[Jode]

First and foremost, do not EVER fall prey to the mindset that says, "I don't pay attention to music theory and the more complicated aspects of music because it would kill my feel, maaaaan." Anyone who says this is an idiot and a loser, totally FULL OF SHIT, and to be avoided. Learning a thing or two about music will only help, because if you understand how and why your feel feels the way it does, then you'll be able to feel it again, on purpose, and it'll feel even better! Besides, knowing a little theory makes it easier to tell OTHER people how to play your music, as in a band setting. It beats the hell out of playing it for them over and over and over.

 

Learn your scales and modes. Learn how chords work together. Learn how to write a lead sheet (melody, lyrics, and chord symbols) for your favorite songs, and how to read the ones written by others. There are lots of good books out there which are cheaper and easier to find than a good teacher is.

 

Take your bass to a reputable local guitar repair shop and have a setup and new strings put on. It will cost you about $50-$75. It is worth every penny. A brand new car won't run right if it's not tuned up, and neither will a brand new instrument. Ask if you can watch. Learn how to properly string your instrument. Ask about truss rods and neck relief. I know you didn't spend a lot on your bass, but get it set up properly, and it will feel like you spent a whole lot more. Once you see a setup being done, you'll know what it is, why you do it, and how big a difference it makes in your instrument.

 

Finally, learn how to squeeze every drop of sound out of your rig before spending another dime on amps or effects. Your sound comes from the inside out. Read here for more on that subject.

[rockinredneck69]

I'm glad I posted this question! You all have given me some awsome advice and very good sites to resource.

[Connie Z]

Originally posted by rockinredneck69:

I keep trying to alter my fingers but that only happens if I concentrate very hard and then my fretting suffers. I can't help but wonder if this is going to haunt me later or if it will just turn into my "style". I'm going to skip hunting season this year so I can spend the needed money on lessons, but till then I'm wanting to make sure I aim myself in the right directions.

Hi again!

 

I play with a pick, but the times I have tried to play using my fingers, I had the same experience as you are describing. I can't alternate the fingers. I've been told me that I am supposed to alternate every note between my index finger and my middle finger. And also that I can rest my thumb on my pickup.

 

So far, I cannot coordinate moving the fingers of my fretting hand and my plucking hand. I can do it if I only use my index or not alternate every note!

 

I am continuing to try, because there are a few songs that I'd like to use my fingers and not the pick. But all in all, for the rockin' oldies music I play, the pick works great.

 

But... regarding my darn fretting hand. I keep trying and trying to play riffs that stretch out my pinky, but it's barely stretching .

 

My little finger is MUCH stronger now than it was even 6 months ago, but it won't stretch. I always end up playing with my index, middle and ring fingers.

 

When I see players who can just lay their hand practically flat on the fretboard and play with very little effort and movement... well... I get very JEALOUS!

 

It's a big advantage and I want it. So... I am just trying to find riffs that extend my ring finger and pinky.

 

EDIT: I just remembered that I posted this same problem a while back and here is the link to the thread. I just re-read that thread and it is really interesting. See the part about the 1-2-4 method. http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=003242#000000

 

Good luck! Please come back and share as you learn new stuff!

 

... connie z

[Tom Capasso]

Connie,

 

I don't want to make it seem like you shouldn't learn to use your fingers. It's a great technique to have. I am aware that we "hobbyists" find our "woodshedding" time to be limited...

 

There are a few things you can do with pick technique to get closer to what you might expect from fingerstyle. One is to buy one of those felt picks. It will eliminate that "snap" sound, but it is thick and clunky and will take a bit of work. The other thing you can do is pick further up the neck (away from the pickups).

 

Tom

[Connie Z]

Originally posted by Tom Capasso:

There are a few things you can do with pick technique to get closer to what you might expect from fingerstyle. One is to buy one of those felt picks. It will eliminate that "snap" sound, but it is thick and clunky and will take a bit of work. The other thing you can do is pick further up the neck (away from the pickups).

 

Tom

Thanks for the info Tom, I shall put a felt pick on my list of things to buy, and try it out. And I've been enjoying picking in different parts of the bass now, to see what sounds I get! I shall try more of the area further up the neck.

 

... connie z

[Basshappi]

Here are some simple suggestions, based on my own practice methods, which may help you improve your fingerstyle.

 

Set aside a little time each practice session to work on fingerstyle. Even if it is only 10-15 minutes, over the course of even a few months that adds up!

 

Mute the strings with your left hand and practice keeping an even rhythm on the open strings. Try to get to where you can move from string to string smoothly keeping the pattern even.After you can do this, try syncopating the beat.

 

Once you can do this,you could practice doing triplets using three fingers(think Steve Harris and John Entwhistle)!

 

Remember to start slow. Don't worry about counting or using a metronome at first. Just try to make the pattern even.

 

There is much to learn here, but take it a little at a time. If you are consistant, you will be amazed how quickly it will come together for you.

 

I hope this is some help. Good luck!

[rockinredneck69]

Dammmnnnn, those last few posts are testament to the old, "ask and ye shall recieve"! First of all, to Connie-you've given me lots of good advice that makes perfect sence. In fact, I checked out the thread you provided and it seems you've only been here for a year. If thats the case, you've inspired me with your knowledge and the fact that you've been playing gigs...I'll take that as insperation! For basshappi-I've been stayin away from the metronome for the simple reason that I don't want the distraction and once I get the line down that I'm reading, I think my rythym is good enough for ME to hear. Not being facitious there, just stating the point that I understand where your coming from. Besides that, you invoked two names of my bass gods.

[rockinredneck69]

I'm working on the part of my books where I'm doing 2nd and 4th fret type stuff. I warm up with scales and then go with whatever I have'nt gotten down cold yet. Its a bit hard sometimes as I work as a sawfiler in a hardwood mill, I bench roundsaws-meaning, I work with my hands, a hammer in one hand with the other hand constantly turning and spinning the saw I'm working on. This tends to mean that after a long night of work my hands are very tired. Unfortunately, by the time that I get home from work,wich is the most creative part of my day, thats when I pick up my bass. I do have large hands and strong fingers, so I'm developing the habit of coming home and playing till they start to get sore and then I put it down. This is done with the hope that not only am I taking advantage of my best creative part of the day, but also building added strength to my hands. I'm able to use all 4 and will continue with that. My main weakness still seems to be my plucking fingers though. I'll try the left muting technique and see how that goes!

[Lawnmower8]

Don't forget to give your hands a day off every now and then, at least once a week...

I'm typing on a computer all day, typing on a laptop at school all night, and then I come home to play bass.

You do not want to damage the tendons and nerves in your hands...

Keep at it, and most important, listen to alot of music, not just bass playing, but anything you can find... it will inspire you to keep with it and give you ideas to practice as you become more comfortable with your instrument...

[actrade]

Connie,

 

I like to play blues shuffles (pentatonic scales) to practice with my pinky. They sound cool and really require your pinky, especially double note shuffles like B.B. King's "Paying The Cost To Be The Boss."

[rockinredneck69]

I hear ya Lawnmower8! I've taken a night off here and there, if there is any soreness at all I don't push it.

[rotosound45]

As far as your question regarding right-hand technique, I've recently heard you are suppose to always lead with your index finger, alternating to the middle finger. Personally, I've always used two fingers, but leading with my middle finger instead. After 16 years of playing this way, it would be difficult to change now...

[Dm711]

I spent too much time in music school. Here is what I learned.

 

1. Shift sooner, not later.

 

3. KFDWS (Keep Fingers Down While Shifting)... AKA, keep your fingers as close to the strings as you can. Focus on exerting the LEAST amount of work.

 

Finally, keep your thumb centered behind the neck. Don't let it slip up and flop over to the E string. This will help you move more quickly, and will give you better leverage and power to pull down the strings...

 

Finally, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. And end your practice session on something you LIKE to play. This will help you come back next time.

 

Good Luck!

 

Disclaimer: I quit music school to become a computer programmer. What the heck do I know?

 

Peace,

 

Dm7