hags2k Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 So, if we get these nice cabinets and such... Then what happens when we play a gig and we're pumped through a middle-of-the-road PA? I mean, are we just entertaining ourselves with our great sounding cabs with soft-dome tweeters, while everyone in the audience hears bass through middle-grade mains with compression horns? Who is benefieting most from these expenses? I'm just curious as to how you guys think about it. I mean, if you play gigs mostly where your amp and cab(s) carry the bass sound entirely on their own, then of course, it makes sense, but many of us don't, and many of us still have decent equipment that may easily be better than the PA at the gig we're playing at at the moment. So, in that case, is it simply for our own listening pleasure/preference? unkownroadband.com - step into the unkown :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 is that so wrong? because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Look at it this way: If you get great tone from your bass/amp/cab combo, the soundman has something to work with. There's no guarantee that he or his equipment are up to the task, but at least you've done your part. However.... if your tone isn't good, there's little even a great soundman can do to improve it. So it's incumbent on you to make sure you're doing your best. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hags2k Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally posted by robb.: is that so wrong? Not at all. Sometime we have justifications we say to ourselves in order to ease the GAS pains, though, and I am just curious if there are a few higly logical, enligtened reasons for it. Or just for ourselves. It works for me. I swear I think I play better when the sound coming from my amp is nicer! Anyone else? unkownroadband.com - step into the unkown :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 The sound man will mess up your sound. That's almost a fact. (apologies to any soundmen on this list...if you get a great bass sound, please come work at the shows I play and go to hear!) If you have your own good sounding gear, at least you will sound good to yourself and if you have to carry the whole room because the kick drum is thundering away in the PA, then you will be able to. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Originally submitted to his fellow LDLers by robb.: is that so wrong? Yes, there are instances where your gear is really primarily for you (and maybe your bandmates). PJR has commented in the past about the gig he did at the Fiesta Bowl last year, where his stage set-up didn't really mean diddley, even to him, since the PA was massive and the monitors were killer. I also agree with coyote in that you may be setting a foundation from which the SR person is going to get sound. In this case, it certainly behooves you to lay a toneful a foundation as possible. Then again, the SR person may just pump you thru a Countryman DI and never use your amp's DI or mike your cab... Lastly, your rig is often what carries you thru rehearsals, so at least you know you have a sonic reference point between your live gig and your rehearsals. Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fonz Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Stated as fact by coyote: Look at it this way: If you get great tone from your bass/amp/cab combo, the soundman has something to work with. There's no guarantee that he or his equipment are up to the task, but at least you've done your part. However.... if your tone isn't good, there's little even a great soundman can do to improve it. So it's incumbent on you to make sure you're doing your best.this is true. most places will take a direct off your instrument. or they'll take one off your amp if they trust it. good places will augment this by miking your speakers. if your speakers sound like crap, that crappiness wil be multiplied by a variable crappiness factor depending on the crappiness of the sound guy/p.a. if you go in with good tone you at least have a shot at sounding good. go in with bad tone and you're gonna sound bad no matter how good the sound guy/p.a. is. Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I don't use any crap equipment at all. So, yes, you should sound good to you. If the sound crew wrecks your sound, then get it rectified immediately or for the next time you play there (or don't return at all). I play better when it sounds better, too. As always with PA's: garbage in, garbage out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJR Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I've been fortunate enough to have been able to play many gigs over the past years. Some very small. Some insanely large. But the majority of gigs I play are club gigs , with an average of 50 - 200 people. Sometimes the band has an adequate stage.....with Lights and PA support....sometimes the band is cramped into a small corner of the bar and we use a small powered mixer for vocals only. My point being this. For the majority of us here......the sound that comes from our cabinets...is the sound that the audience hears. Why not make it as good as you possibly can ? PJR 5CentMary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Interesting. Our band is going through a gear modification. Our keyboard guy has always used a mixer for his stuff and sends either a mono or stereo mix to the board. Our drummer now has his own 16 channel mixer for his kit, and sends either a mono or stereo mix to the board. This may even allow us to use a smaller FOH board. Anyway, I am thinking of getting a little 2 channel mixer for myself. This way, I could use one channel for a DI, and I could use the other channel for a mic on my 4X10. I could then mix the "growl and tone" I like from my cab with the solid bottom you get with a DI and send the mix I want to the board. Of course, the sound guy still has control, but at least I'll have some of my cab and DI at the mix I want going out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hags2k Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 Originally posted by SteveC: Anyway, I am thinking of getting a little 2 channel mixer for myself. This way, I could use one channel for a DI, and I could use the other channel for a mic on my 4X10. I could then mix the "growl and tone" I like from my cab with the solid bottom you get with a DI and send the mix I want to the board. Of course, the sound guy still has control, but at least I'll have some of my cab and DI at the mix I want going out there.Hmm, that's a cool idea. I like it. I don't need it now, but I like it and I'm sure that will now weigh on my mind the next time I'm perusing the catalogs longingly... unkownroadband.com - step into the unkown :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJR Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Not neccessary. All the DI's I've worked with have parallel outputs- one goes to your bass head/amp , the other goes to the FOH . If you are running a single , direct line out to the FOH, that is all you would need. If you have the luxury of also sending a Mic'd Bass signal, you definately want the man in the front of the stage controlling things...not you onstage. Keep it simple......by performing your own mix what are you accomplishing ??? There is no way you can account for the sound out front when you are on stage. I know..I do both. ( separately of course...) While I'm on the subject......the drummer controls the his drum mix onstage ??? Hmmm......... PJR 5CentMary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcr Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 PJR, you said a mouthful. It is so frustrating when people on state insist on controlling the mix, when they're in the worst location to assess the mix. It comes down to a matter of trust. And sometimes it's not there. But even then I guess you don't have a whole lot of options. I don't know if this is related, but here's another frustration. A band-mate & I recently ran a real-time analyzer on our auditorium, & wrote an EQ program to stay away from problem frequencies, optimize use of non-problem frequencies, and generally deliver a nice, clear, musical sound. We ran the program at the next practice...and the singer complained because it sounded different! Wasn't that the POINT? And not just different, but not deep enough; well, in a block-wall building, the point is to dial out the "boom," so OF COURSE it's not going to sound as deep! Grrrr... And so now, the RTA/EQ just sits there idle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJR Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Strike a balance between what the Analyzer says and what your ears tell you. You'll probably hit it right on. PJR 5CentMary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Soundmen can be a real problem. Often, the venue supplies the soundman and you MUST work with that person. And unfortunately, that person often has a quite different idea than the band of how you ought to sound. It's difficult to trust someone you don't know, particularly if you've heard their work and find it less than great. One solution is to bring your own guy anyway, and 'tip' the house soundguy if he works with yours the way you want (this usually means bringing the keyboards up in the mix, eliminating some vocal reverb, and rolling back high-end across the board). Originally posted by dcr: PJR, you said a mouthful. It is so frustrating when people on state insist on controlling the mix, when they're in the worst location to assess the mix. It comes down to a matter of trust. And sometimes it's not there. But even then I guess you don't have a whole lot of options. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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