...and another setup question - Geddy Lee Jazz Bass

[Rik]

Making trussrod adjustments on my neck-through Tobias is a piece of cake. I turn the truss rod one direction or the other, and I get a corresponding change in neck relief. There never seem to be any seriously adverse effects - the action just changes a bit one way or the other. And changes have been easy to reverse if I didn't like the results.

 

My Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass, on the other hand, is an absolute nightmare to adjust. When I bought the Jazz used from a friend, it sounded great and played great. It was strung with, I believe, Dean Markley Super Slinky strings. But since it's a Geddy Lee model, I figured it should have the same strings Geddy uses, so I replaced the Dean Markleys with a set of RotoSound Swing Bass strings.

 

The RotoSound A-string has a gauge of .080, compared to the Dean Markley A-string's .085. The other three strings were the same gauges in both sets. Apparently, the slightly smaller A-string caused just enough lessening in string tension to relax the neck and introduce a bit of fret buzz. While I normally don't mind a bit of fret buzz, I discovered that the Jazz's maple fingerboard "enhanced" the buzz enough to be annoying.

 

No problem, eh? Just loosen the truss rod hair to get the relief back where it should be. Except it didn't work that way. From the time I made that first adjustment, this bass has just gotten worse and worse. Every truss rod adjustment, in either direction, has been for the worse. Now it's to the point where both the E and A strings are buzzing horribly above above the 7th fret. And I've got the bridge saddles on those strings jacked as high as they'll go, too. I've managed to get rid of most of the fret buzz on the D & G strings, but not completely.

 

To make matters worse, the bass no longer sounds like it did when I first got it. (See my other thread http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=005937 for a discussion of this phenomenon on my Tobias)

 

So some questions:

 

1 - why is the Jazz so much more difficult to adjust than the Tobias? Does neck-through vs bolt-on make all the difference here?

 

2 - did I make a bad mistake by removing the neck to make the trussrod adjustments (my original logic being "4 big screws to remove the neck vs 10 tiny screws that fall on the floor and get lost in the carpet where I'll step on them with bare feet three days later to remove the pickguard")

 

3 - why doesn't Fender put the trussrod access at the headstock end of the neck like everybody else does, instead of hiding it under the pickguard? (sorry, rhetorical question - I assume it's because of the flat Fender headstock)

 

The neck doesn't appear to have developed an S-curve or a twist or anything.

 

Help?

 

I'm selling this bass back to the original owner, and I hate the idea of returning it to him "broken". I've already explained the situation to him, and he says he can probably fix it (he's done this kind of thing far more often than I have.) If he can't fix it, I'm going to feel horrible.

[Tom Capasso]

I don't have experience adjusting Fenders. In my experience, it does take some time for the neck to settle in and "move" with the rod adjustment. My only advice would be to make a small adjustment (1/4 turn), then give it a day or so. It is possible that there is something wrong with the neck...

 

Tom

[hags2k]

A geddy lee bass neck not adjusting? It's a pretty thin neck, so I would have assumed it would be fairly easy, but then again, when you have to remove the neck...

 

Actually, not all fenders have the adjustment there. 70s fenders had it at the nut, and my standard p and j basses both have the adjustment at the headstock (or I would go INSANE when making adjustments). I think others have it at the nut, but not all of them, obviously. Personally, I think that's a design mistake, but perhaps someone has a good reason for it? I am seriously interested to know, if there is one.

[fig]

Rik, do you still have the Dean Markleys that you originally took off? Maybe restring the bass with those and positively identify that it's the strings that are causing the buzz problem?

 

Instead of selling it back to your friend who says he can probably fix it, can you just let him do a set up and see if he can cure the problem with the Rotos on?

[mro]

Making the truss rod adjustment shouldn't be as difficult that you are having. I would not remove the neck. Fender usually places a cutout in the pickguard to get access to the truss rod adjustment screw without removing the pickguard. But if you have to remove the pickguard then do so. Adjust your bridge saddles back to normal, I think if they raised up to high, it will just pull up on the neck making it worse. Go slow and easy with the truss rod as Tom suggests. Give it as day to take affect. Adjust again, wait a day.etc. Mr Gearhead in the Fender.com site has a setup you can follow. Don't give up on the bass yet to sell back. Try again. The experience is necessary and you'll be glad you went through this. Or Take it to a luthier who are gifted to straighten problems out in a jiffy. Good luck.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

ok, here's the scoop on the GL jazz truss rod.

 

it's faithful reproduction of Geddy's jazz bass from when he bought it. that includes a trus rod that can only be adjusted by removing the neck. the trussrod is not accessible any other way, even when the pickguard is removed. i believe it takes a philips screwdriver to do the adjusting.

 

some guys have modded their GL basses to include a route to make adjusting the trussrod possible without removing the neck. while looking at this picture, realize that it's more than just a hole in the pickguard -- he actually had to route access into the body, too.

 

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=919712

 

you may or may not want to do that. other mods this particular bass has include SD basslines hot jazz pickups, sadowsky knobs,a hipshot d-tuner, and a mirrored pickguard. the controls have also been rewired to be volume - blend - tone. i think he has sadowsky J pickups in this bass now.

 

robb.

[Jode]

It may be a silly question, but did you wrap enough string around the A and E string pillars? You say the problem started when you changed strings. The headstock has no angle, and there are no string trees for those two strings, so they rely on plenty of winding around the tuning peg to hold them deep in the nut. My A string on my '75 Jazz buzzed for YEARS until a good setup and a word of advice from a master guitar doctor set me straight. I hope you didn't just go fiddling around with the neck and the bridge all for naught. Try simply putting the old A back on the guitar. If that fixes the problem, I say buy another pack of strings and use plenty of string around the pegs. Matter of fact, by now I'd just take it to a shop and have it restrung and set up.

[Rik]

then give it a day or so

Yeah, I've been allowing at least a day between adjustments.

 

Don't give up on the bass yet to sell back.

Well, I'm selling it because: 1) I've been unemplyed for a while and I need the money (partly to bail out the other two basses that are in the pawn shop) and 2) I've found that I just don't play this bass as much as I thought I was going to. My Tobias does everything I need.

 

a trus rod that can only be adjusted by removing the neck

Yep. The cutout in the body is way too short, and trying to adjust it with the neck still on really tears up the finish.

 

other mods this particular bass

Mine was modified by the original owner, too. He replaced the stock tuners with Hipshots, and replaced the stock 3-ply white/black/white pickguard with a new white pearloid version. I think he may have replaced the pickups too, but I'm not sure about that.

 

It may be a silly question, but did you wrap enough string around the A and E string pillars?

Yeah. I learned about that some time ago. Still, at least on this particular bass, even winding the A all the way to the bottom of the post still doesn't put much angle on the string.

 

Rik, do you still have the Dean Markleys that you originally took off? Maybe restring the bass with those and positively identify that it's the strings that are causing the buzz problem?

Yeah, I thought of that. In fact, I made the swap yesterday. No improvement, but I'll see what happens when I try a few moe adjustments.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions

[Invincible]

Originally posted by fig:

Rik, do you still have the Dean Markleys that you originally took off? Maybe restring the bass with those and positively identify that it's the strings that are causing the buzz problem?

 

Instead of selling it back to your friend who says he can probably fix it, can you just let him do a set up and see if he can cure the problem with the Rotos on?

I've always wondered, how do you restring your bass with strings that you have already taken off, because of how it's all coiled up at the end where they were wrapped around the post I have to cut them to get the strings out of the holes at the bridge.

[fig]

I usually uncoil the post end of the string and feed it thru the bridge holes. Doesn't have to be perfectly straight. I like to keep the strings useable because the set I took off now becomes my standby set in case I break a string.

[Rik]

Invincible - Well, I actually unwind the strings when I take them off. It sounds like you must loosen them just enough to slip the coiled end off the post.

 

What I do is use a string winder while pulling down on the string to keep it tight while I unwind it. That pretty much straightens the string out and makes it much easier to pull out through the bridge (and feed it back through if I reuse the string).

[LizzyD]

Early Fenders had the truss rod access at the heel, and no body routing. Ever see a vintage Jazz with a big ugly scraped up hole down there?

 

I wish they'd at least put an access route there, under the guard. I have a Geddy Lee too, and I don't look forward to doing this. I did it when I first got it (ordered from Musician's Friend - it played like utter crap when it arrived), and it's about due again.

 

I think I read somewhere - maybe on TalkBass - that Fender's intention is that by removing the pickguard, enough of the truss rod bolt threads (or whatever you call it) should be showing that you can use a flathead screwdriver to turn it without removing the neck.

[Rik]

Hey Lizzy -

 

Took a look at your Web site - it looks like we have similar tastes in gear. You just have more of it than I do

 

Tobias, Fender, Carvin... I like that Rickenbacker too. And those Roscoe basses - never gotten to try one of those.

 

You look awfully familiar, too. Ever crossed the mountains to Wenatchee?

[dcr]

Stinkin Louise! A Chris Squire Ric?!? WAY cool, Lizzy! I too have a Ric (not, ahem, a Squire edition) in a similar color (Ric-white-faded-sorta-yellow), and also a GL Jazz. Great minds, I guess...

[LizzyD]

Originally posted by Rik:

Hey Lizzy -

 

Took a look at your Web site - it looks like we have similar tastes in gear. You just have more of it than I do

 

Tobias, Fender, Carvin... I like that Rickenbacker too. And those Roscoe basses - never gotten to try one of those.

 

You look awfully familiar, too. Ever crossed the mountains to Wenatchee?

Haven't been over there recently, and certainly never gigged there! Do you get over to Seattle ever?

[Rik]

Don't get to Seattle too often, but I've been meaning to do so. Some friends from here have a band there - The Sound of Sleep - and I want to catch a gig or two. And I've got to visit Safeco Field one of these days!

 

If I can make it over there sometime soon, I'll check your site and see if you're gigging anywhere

 

Delving deeper into your site... holy cow! I used to play the sax, too. And cats. I love cats!

[LizzyD]

I finally got around to making a truss rod adjustment on my Geddy Lee, now it plays great! What a PITA though. I didn't remove the neck entirely, just detuned the strings and loosened the bolts enough to pop the neck out of the pocket to expose the screw thingy (for lack of a better word). Seemed to work fine for me. I took off the pickguard too.

 

Any update on yours, Rik? Or have you sold it back to its original owner?