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Just Say No


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To $20.00 CDs, to $7.00 beers, to $100.00 concert tickets. We had a thread on here the other day about CD prices and someone mentioned that the price of things is determined by whatever the market will bear. THIS IS SO TRUE! It just struck me the other night when I was at the Pavillion and I saw the $7.00 beers. Hey I don't need that. Maybe that's not high in your part of the country but it is for North Carolina. I would have liked to drink 3 or 4 beers during the show but screw that I'm not paying 30 bucks for a little fermented grain and hops. Same thing with CDs. I'm not paying their price any more. I've got enough music to keep me happy for years and my trump card is I can make my own music. Ha! I am definitley not paying $125.00 bucks to see The Stones or The Eagles. Just Fuck it! THE ONLY THING THAT WILL BRING PRICES DOWN is when there are more people like me who REFUSE to pay it. So come along with me and my war on high prices JUST SAY NO! It's the ONLY thing that will work.
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Hey Wewus, I totally agree with you. The only thing that worries me though, is that if people just stopped going to concerts and buying CD's, the promoters and labels would blame it on anything but the price (or the fact that the music is probably shitty anyway). They'd just say that people aren't interested in music anymore or they'd blame internet piracy and say that they have to raise the prices even more to pay expenses. SO... rather than JUST boycotting high priced concerts and CD's, make it a point to buy CD's from independent labels who sell at lower prices. Go to small bars where the beers are cheap and you can see 3 local bands for under 10 bucks. Buy used CD's. Whatever it takes to show that you're still very interested in spending money on music but you're not interested in bullshit! --Lee
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Yeah Lee, I'm already doing that with the small clubs, labels, etc. BUT If enough people boycott high prices they will come down. It's basic economics. The alternative for them is to go out of business. If people don't buy their product they will find a way to cut cost and drop their prices. If you RAISE prices you're assuming that there are still enough people that will pay the even higher price to offset the loss in volume. That's what they are trying to pull off with the DVD-Audio product at $23.00 a unit. It ain't gonna fly. A TRUE BOYCOTT will bring any company or even government to their knees.
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I've seen Rush on every tour since 1982. They will Be coming to Darien Lake( outdoor amphitheatre) in July. The cheapest ticket under the roof are $60, even way in the back . Lawn seats are $35. I am not going.
So Many Drummers. So Little Time...
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I wanted to see CSN&Y a few months ago, but for $200.00 a pop it would have cost me and the wife about $600.00 with dinner, parking, a couple of beers, shirts. Sheesh, for a few hundred more we could take a mini vaction down to Fl. or something.
In two days, it won't matter.
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[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]... If enough people boycott high prices they will come down. It's basic economics... A TRUE BOYCOTT will bring any company or even government to their knees.[/b][/quote]Tangential: Verizon (formerly NYNEX) the largest local phone company in our neck of the woods, decided to raise the cost of using their pay phones (Feb 2002, implemented Apr/May 2002) for local calls from 25c to 50c, citing a whole lot of reasons. Wrong place, wrong time. The is such a high concentration of mobile phones in this region, pay phones are already something of an oddity, and are mostly for convienence. Apparently, demand fell from zero to non existent, so now they've decided to roll back the cost to 25c, and spend another couple of hundred thousand to reprogram the phones to make a 25c local call. Somethings are sacred. Wrigleys has been making and selling five sticks of gum at retail (Spearmint/double mint/big red/Juict Fruit) for at leat 10, maybe 15 years for 25c. No way they can sell it for 28c, or 33c or 35c, ...in any event, the returns on a pack of gum are potentially huge (60% or higher)...so everybody gets a peice of the pie, and stays relatively happy. ---- Back on topic, Sometimes as a tour/road manager, I go to great lengths to convince the acts to -not have the record label / mgmt company provide limos (or even car service) to take them to the airport / radio stations. -not have the record company A&R travel with us when we're doing promo, cuz they feel it's imperative to take everyone in sight to dinner, and it's going on the corporate card... -not spec mad crazy shit in their riders, and insist on having me enforce it. If the local promoter doesn't pay, guess where the money's coming from? -not to always kowtow to the labels demands to use certain producers -[b]do[/b] treat anything outside of their actual "performance" as a strict business, and assign someone (atty, acct, whomever) to oversee what the label, the mgmt co, the accting firm, the booking agent is doing. [i]Controversial statement[/i] Musicians are, outside of the realm of performing / arranging /writing /etc, essentially are [b]fools[/b] (self included) :) . We'd sometimes rather lie in bed with a huge label and get reamed up the ying yang, than sit down and hammer out a little deal with the local guy than can probably move no more than 15,000 copies of your work. Is fame that important? Recognition? playing in front of 70,000 fans? Sure, it may take 8 years instead of 8 months to get there, but too many of us have bought in on the fallacy of instant gratification - and it works against us both ways. As performers, (remember, these are just generalized statements...) many want it, and want it now! As a part of the general populace, we're being duped into these hyped, over the top productions...and then sometimes it's hard to go back to seeing the same act in smaller (but not neccesarily more intimate) settings. I just turned down 7 continous weeks of touring, so I guess I'm somewhat of two minds on the whole thing...sorry in advance if my ramblings rub you the wrong way... ...it seems that every other year or so, I get an offer thats gangbusters, and I'd be foolish to pass it up, etc...but then, here I am 10 years later after saying "no" to my 1st "big" offer I rejected, and I still enjoy life, in fact, I still rub elbows with some of my colleagues that did the non stop touring routine for umpteen years, and it does not appear that their lives are so much fuller for having been on the treadmill for so long.
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I was weened on clubs, not so much gigs in hockey arenas. I was used to $5. Paying anything more than $30 + $7-10 parking for someone you can barely see is not something I want to do very often. I did it for Peter Gabriel because I felt that was special. He managed to make a 16,000-seat arena seem grandiose and intimate at the same time. Never seen anyone else do that. Been to U2 and Page/Plant, some others, but would much rather be at a club.
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[quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [b]I've seen Rush on every tour since 1982. They will Be coming to Darien Lake( outdoor amphitheatre) in July. The cheapest ticket under the roof are $60, even way in the back . Lawn seats are $35. I am not going.[/b][/quote]Yeah, but at least you'd get a live Rush concert out of it. Do you know that Adelphia (cable company) actually called me yesterday to peddle the Tyson/Lewis fight on pay per view? 55 bucks they wanted! :eek: For pay per view?? I think not. I'm not going to see Rush either. The club setting is more my speed anyway. Khan, it's nice to see someone still calling it "Darien Lake" instead of "Six Flags!" Oh, oops! Hi everyone, I'm Julie. :wave: New to the boards, weaseling in on someone else's thread instead of making my own introduction post. I'm lame like that. :D You all are a very enjoyable group! My question: Doesn't it seem insurmountable to get people to give up their pricey music in favor of personal conviction? How do you get the average buyer/concert goer to jump on the bandwagon here? It seems to me that too many people WILL pay, no matter what. Julie Having a "that $7 beer is half empty" sort of day.
Julie
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[quote]Originally posted by NYC Drew: [b] Recognition? playing in front of 70,000 fans? Sure, it may take 8 years instead of 8 months to get there, but too many of us have bought in on the fallacy of instant gratification - and it works against us both ways. [/b][/quote][img]http://www.jh.pair.com/bnb/bb/bh_head2.gif[/img] "He said 'phallus'...heh, heh heh heh" Just kidding...but, you're right on, Drew. And Lee, yes...more bands I like come to the Beaumont Club here in Kansas City than Kemper arena. They manage to get some big names at the Beaumont, in addition to local bands. Names that are big, not hyooooge. And the Grand Emporium, folks like Leon Russell and Charlie Musselwhite...good shows for a reasonable price. More my speed. But...once in awhile, you've gotta go see a huge show. It sucks, but, when McCartney came around, I just had to go. Tickets were high. I paid about $100 for mine (they went up to like $200), plus drove to Detroit. But, I do wonder how it broke down. He was traveling with 10 semis full of crap (I counted 'em)...a crew of not just sound techs and roadies, but also a video production crew, so I know all of those people had to be paid. Ah well. Oh, hey, welcome aboard, Julie! Hopefully, you won't get too put off with our sophomoric humor.
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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[quote]Originally posted by JulieCat: [b]Oh, oops! Hi everyone, I'm Julie. :wave: New to the boards, weaseling in on someone else's thread instead of making my own introduction post. I'm lame like that. :D You all are a very enjoyable group! [/b][/quote]Well... Hello Julie :wave: Speak Spanish? :D

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Hello, I'm with you Wewus. I limit myself to the budget beer when I go out. I think Pearl Jam had a good thing going with their battle they had going. Hello NY people I have been to Darien for a few shows. It isn't the greatest venue imho.
"Don't Ask Me I'm Just The Bassplayer" UBP
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Count me in. I think it's ridiculous what some of these shows are costing. Rolling Stones at Turner Field here - seats on the infield are $300! To see an old band that doesn't even have a new album out?? (Sorry Lee :D ) For $300, I'd expect to see the Beatles, with John & George back from the dead.
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[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]...someone mentioned that the price of things is determined by whatever the market will bear. [/b][/quote]Totally true, wewus! I know someone in the pawn business. When I asked him how much interest he charges on a loan, he said "whatever the guy lets me", meaning that if he says 20% and some poor guy agrees, then it's 20%. Likewise, if the guy selling the ticket says $300 and the guy buying says OK, well... Lee, I totaly agree with you. Do "whatever it takes to show that you're still very interested in spending money on music but you're not interested in bullshit!" I passed on McCartney for the first time ever because of the prices. Paul
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I passed on my favorite band U2, because the prices were outrageous. I was doing the club thing for a minute. The 9:30 Club here in Washington D.C. brings some great bands. Unfortunately, my favorites like Afghan Whigs and Sunny Day Real Estate have broken up. :cry: I'm always on the lookout for Built to Spill who pull in a big crowd every time they play here, but it is very disheartening to see so many good bands go down the wasteside because they are not a MTV Darling. Tough racket, this music biz, but Fuck it. I'm on the DIY thing for sure. Call me naive or whatevertheF!@#, but I believe (if you work your ass off) good music can be economically viable without overthetop marketing. That's the beauty about music. It can go through walls. You just have to be playing really LOUD! Jedi

"All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence."

 

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[quote]Originally posted by dblackjedi: [b]good music can be economically viable without overthetop marketing. That's the beauty about music. It can go through walls. You just have to be playing really LOUD! Jedi[/b][/quote]Yeah Jedi! Man, you do have the attitude it's gonna take. :thu:

 

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"When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke...

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I passed on U2 cos the bastids cancelled the Oz leg of their tour :( U2 were one of the few bands I was willing to pay what it took to get good seats - but agree in general with wewus' view. P.S. Welcome Julie
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I gave up on big venues over 20 years ago and don't miss it at all.Hardly anyone worth seeing(in my opinion)makes it real easy for me.The only halfway big venue I go to at all here in NY is the Jones Beach theater because it's not that much $$($30-$40)and it's not that big so just about any seat is fine and I don't drink anymore so that's out of the cost.Plus it's outside so I can roam around easily.Aside from not being interested in the music offering I could run down a never ending list on why I don't go to big halls anymore(MSG ect.),but I'm sure you all know what they are.
"A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
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Boys and Girls!!! There is an easy way to see your favorite bands perform at live concerts and pay nothing.. in fact, you can BE paid to see them. Find out who staffs the local crew for your venue of choice, and sign on to set up sound, lights, and sometimes video for them. Even if you only work the minimum load in/load out you usually get free entrance to the concert, as well as the ability to walk backstage. I wouldn't be surprised if other venues are like Starwood, outside Nashville, and insist you not speak to the acts unless spoken to, but you do get to walk (and sometimes eat dinner) among them. Oh yeah, many major tours give the local crew T-shirts as swag. You can't take a date or friends unless they, too, are working the load in/load out. But if they are, you're pretty much on your own during the show, so long as you're not working the stage or running a spot. The downside? You don't have a guaranteed seat in the pavillion. You have to put up with wannabe fans offering you money, drugs, or sex for your backstage satin. You have to be able to work moving/setting up lighting truss, fixtures, and large audio systems. You have to load out after the concert is over. (Which usually takes 2.5 to 4 hours, so don't expect to be chipper the next morning!) Of course, load out guarantees you won't get stuck in traffic after the show! ;) If this work is not palatable, then consider working as an usher directing people to their seats. I drove from home, then north of Chicago, to Milwaukee with a buddy to see SRV and Jeff Beck. He knew who to talk to to work security. I ended up watching the show from near the back while checking people's tickets. My friend (who is much bulkier than I) stood behind the heavy steel fencing used to keep overly friendly or drunk people off stage. Once again, you can't really take a date or a bunch of friends if you're working the show this way, but it's a cheap way to enjoy your favorite acts. As for spending $45+ to see a band play... no thanks. It's just not worth it to me.

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Hey Julie: Welcome to the forum. Don't worry about hijacking a thread, sometimes you can't tell what a thread is about by the title. You're right about it being hard to get the average citizen to boycott high prices. There are a lot of media junkies out there. I think we need to FIND and PROMOTE the acts that the MACHINE isn't. A lot of those people apparently don't know jack shit about music, they just know how to SELL. You know what, it's easier to sell when you have a good product. Just fuck em! If they won't do their job, we'll have to do it for them. I'm talking about a Grass Roots movement to improve the quality of what we listen too. We can make it happen, WE can make it happen.
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I think that's why rock shows on DVD are cool. You get to see the best performances of a tour all together (or one great show), great seats, great sound and the cost is no where near what it costs to fight traffic, people etc. to see the actual event. Plus you can see it again and again. Welcome Juliecat :cool:
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[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]Hey you guys: I heard that DC Dave was once Michael Jackson's personal valet. How'd you get that gig, Dave? ( for reference please refer to the What The ? forum)[/b][/quote]Yes Wewus, I saw your slanderous threats over at the [url=http://www.what-the.com]www.what-the.com[/url] forums. But to answer your question, Michael and I are the same age and went to seperate high schools together. He's been very kind to me as I was born with only half a nose and he's been donating his to me a bit at a time.
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