Dumb Question #341: HOW exactly is a TURNAROUND used?

[MartinJ]

I've read threads about this, and I find it in my instructional books, so I know WHAT it is, but I'm not sure exactly where or how this is applicable.

 

I think that there might be a couple of places where a "turnaround" is used:

 

(1) Is it a variation of the I-IV-V blues progression that occurs in the last few (last four?) bars? That is, does it replace the V-IV-I-V sequence for measures 9-12?

 

(2) Is it simply a progression that repeats over and over and over during the course of song?

 

(3) Is the application something else entirely?

 

Thanks!

[Hepnurecords]

A turnaround is just a progression that gets you home. Home tonality or the tonality of the moment.

 

ii - V7 - I

IV - V7 - I

V7/vi - vi - II7 - V7 - I

iii - vi - ii - V7 - I

 

There are many variations.

 

The looping thing you refer to would be a "tag". A turnaround that turns around on it's self. Just draws things out.

 

iii - vi - ii - V //repeat - would be an example.

 

D.

 

I'm sure Jeremy will chime in whith a far superior explanation. Amazing teacher that guy.

 

D.

[dcr]

Well, suppose you started singing "Row Row Row Your Boat," and then you decided you'd like to play the melody on your bass, since you're a better bass player than singer. Now let's say you've played the melody all the way through one time, and want to start back at the beginning. When you play the last part of the melody (the "but a dream" bit), you've got a couple of beats just sort of hanging there before you get back to the "Row row row" part at the beginning again. What does your mind want to do? You'll probably feel like playing a few notes that lead you from the end back to the beginning; for instance, if you end on C, you might want to play something simple like G-A-B-C to bring you back to the C you start on. If that's what your mind wants to put in that space, to bring you "back home," then you already know what a turnaround is!

 

See, I thought you did!

[MartinJ]

Originally posted by Hepnurecords:

A turnaround is just a progression that gets you home. Home tonality or the tonality of the moment.

 

ii - V7 - I

IV - V7 - I

V7/vi - vi - II7 - V7 - I

iii - vi - ii - V7 - I

 

There are many variations.

 

The looping thing you refer to would be a "tag". A turnaround that turns around on it's self. Just draws things out.

 

iii - vi - ii - V //repeat - would be an example.

 

D.

 

I'm sure Jeremy will chime in whith a far superior explanation. Amazing teacher that guy.

 

D.

Okay, thanks.

 

Is this similar to a "fill"? (I have some notes that show a step-wise transition from I to IV via a "fill", and I guess that this would be similar to moving from the V back to the I, right?)

[davebrownbass]

Turnarounds (This is what dcr said, another way):

 

Take the classic 12 bar blues configuration:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V7 V7 I I

 

Notice how at the end of one chorus, you have 2 Tonic (I) chords, and then you repeat to the top and have 4 more? This is very redundant, and makes it easy to get lost.

 

What we'd like to have, is a dominant chord to set up the repeat, that is, to "turn the song around" That would mean blues changes like:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V V I V

 

Well and good. However, the naked 5 kinda destroys the blues form....(which is 2 bars of a questioning I and answering I, 2 bars of a questioning IV and answering I, 2 bars of a questioning V and answering I.)

 

So, set up the turnaround. Since chords progress most naturally by a ascending 4th:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V V I |ii-V| Where the ii-V is in one bar.

 

Following that reasoning, we expand our preparation by ascending 4ths:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V V |iii-vi|ii-V7|

 

And we have one classic jazz turnaround. A turnaround is: A series of chords in one or two measures that allow you to play a dominant chord in the last bar of a selection in order to repeat the changes.

 

Of course, the corallary: That dominant chord is relative to the opening chord of a song. Songs don't always start on I...the turnaround leads to a dominant chord relative to the opening chord of the selection.

 

And...the final time the head is played, the turnaround is replaced by the written progression...which contains an ending tonic chord. (Sometimes people get really fancy and put something else there to leave the harmony hanging...don't worry about that now.)

 

Finally, this habit of replacing chords with other chords to set up a progression by fourths is quite common. Here is one way the standard blues form evolved to take advantage of this phenomenon (a song written in the simplist blues harmony above will work if the band plays these changes:)

 

I IV I I

IV IV I VI7

ii V |iii-vi|ii-V|

 

and we haven't even talked about color extensions on these chords to increase the leading characteristics of the harmony.

[BenLoy]

A "fill" means playing something to fill up the space that's not occupied by the melody.

 

Not every space should have a fill, and every fill should certainly not be played by the bass.

[MartinJ]

Originally posted by davebrownbass:

...

Take the classic 12 bar blues configuration:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V7 V7 I I

 

...

Dave,

 

My novice understanding of a classic 12-bar blues is:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V IV I V

 

Is this simply another variation on this pattern?

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by MartinJ:

Originally posted by davebrownbass:

...

Take the classic 12 bar blues configuration:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V7 V7 I I

 

...

Dave,

 

My novice understanding of a classic 12-bar blues is:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V IV I V

 

Is this simply another variation on this pattern?

Yes. There are lots of variations.

 

The initial 12-bar blues pattern I learned was:

 

I I I I

IV IV I I

V7 IV I I

 

Your version, Martin, already subs a V chord for the 12th bar compared to my "rookie" version.

 

Then there's all the different stuff Dave posted.

 

Onward!

[jeremy c]

The V chord in Martin's version in the last bar (as opposed to the I chord in Willie's version) is a turnaround chord.

 

And if you were in the key of A, you could play the last two bars: A C# D D#/ E D C# B/ and now you have just played a simple turnaround back to the A at the beginning.

 

I've got a long post in me, it'll be coming eventually this week.

[jeremy c]

P.S. What are the other 340 questions?

[SplitNick]

Good stuff...

 

MartinJ I posted this about turnarounds in your last thread...I am not sure if you saw...It may help some more, maybe not...

 

A turnaround means simply that...It is a musical phrase that brings the progression back to its begining or takes the song in another direction. In traditional music theory these could be considered cadences. The actual definition that I have on cadences is "a punctuation to a musical phrase". So if you want to punctuate the phrase to say "hey I am going back to the begining", you would use something like a full authentic cadence (V-I), if you want to say "hey, keep listening this song ain't over yet", you could use a half cadence (V), and if you want to say "amen", you would use a plagal cadence (IV-I). I am taking some liberty with my lack of knowledge about music. If you can get you hands on a good thoery book there should be a section on cadences...If you have already read this post from another thread: Please disregard the statements above, unless you want to regard them.

[ClarkW]

As we were playing "Johnny B Goode" this morning I noticed that the particular version the guitarists were playing was:

 

I    I    I    I
IV   IV   I    I
V    V    I IV I V7

I'm a bad boy and can't remember all the turnarounds my teacher done taught me, but I recall there are two that go something like this:

 

I    I    I     I
IV   IV   I  7  b7 6
V    IV   I  b3 2  b2

That's tonic, major 7, dominant 7, and 6 in the bass, and I can't remember what the full chord for the 7 and the flat 7 was, but the 6 is a minor 7. Then the end of the next line is a flat 3 (ie minor 3) in the bass, 2 chord, flat 2, which leads you back to the tonic. The flat 2 is a fully diminished chord, but I don't remember what the flat 3 is. Sorry. I'll post corrections when I can find my notes!

[jeremy c]

Clark, Johnny B. Goode shouldn't have a IV chord in bar 10...it conflicts with the melody.

 

You've discovered one of the many turnarounds...but you can't just use them randomly...Mr. Goode (as the NY Times would say) is a song, not just a blues progression, there's a certain way it goes.

 

Mellow Yellow by Donovan is a blues, too, but you won't catch me putting in any substition chords there either.

 

I am a jazz guy when playing jazz, a funk guy when playing funk, a rock guy when playing rock, etc. Whatever is appropriate. And when it is appropriate to mix up the styles, I'll do that too. But never on Johnny B. Goode! That'd be like rewriting Genesis, and I don't mean the band!

[MartinJ]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

P.S. What are the other 340 questions?

I don't want to overwhelm the good folks here with all my DQs in one fell swoop, so I'll ask them just a few at a time.