_Sweet Willie_ Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 What's a good Sunday activity? I'll tell ya': taking off the old strings from your fretless StingRay 5-string, cleaning/oiling the pau ferro fingerboard, letting it dry, putting on some new strings, and finishing up with some intonation. What could be better?! Well, all was good until the very end of step 1: I removed the final string (G) and my plastic nut slid out! Thankfully it's not cracked or broken. It looks like whatever adhesive that was holding it in decided to stop doing its job . So what do I do??? 1. Glue it back in myself? If so, what kind of glue should I use? -OR- 2. Take it to a tech to have it re-adhered? (Is there any reason why I shouldn't do it myself?) -OR- 3. Take the opportunity to experiment? Take it to a tech, have them cut a new nut out of a different material...e.g., graphite. Please let me know what you think I should do. In the meantime, I've cleaned/oiled the fingerboard w/ some boiled linseed oil and it's sitting and drying. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40hertz Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 experiment....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Maybe it wasn't glued in at all! Mine is not, on the Warwick. String tension holds it in. On URB, just a small dot of hide glue does the trick. For this task, I'd try just string tension. If it slips around, take it off and use a couple of tiny dots of superglue. That way, it can be easily knocked off. You might enjoy a mastodon ivory nut...they have blanks techs can cut and install. I dunno if the sound is that much better, but I think it would be a gas telling everyone your bass is a fossil. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 Originally posted by davebrownbass: Maybe it wasn't glued in at all! Mine is not, on the Warwick. String tension holds it in. On URB, just a small dot of hide glue does the trick. For this task, I'd try just string tension. If it slips around, take it off and use a couple of tiny dots of superglue. That way, it can be easily knocked off. It looks like there was a small amount of adhesive used based on a trace remnant in the center of the nut slot. I very well might leave it up to string tension. I leave strings on this bass for long periods of time (usually a year or so!) and clean/oil the fingerboard less often than I probably should, so I'd bet that string tension has been doing the job for at least a couple of months already! Thanks, DBB! Originally posted by davebrownbass: You might enjoy a mastodon ivory nut...they have blanks techs can cut and install. I dunno if the sound is that much better, but I think it would be a gas telling everyone your bass is a fossil. Ha! Thanks, but no. If anything I'd probably experiment w/ graphite out of curiosity -- and more for appearance than sound. (My bass is black w/ a black pickguard, so why not a black nut?!) spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 uhuhuuhuh uhuhuhuhuhuh you guys said, "nut"... a whole bunch of times. huhuhhuhuhuhuhuh Where can one get a mastodon ivory nut (uhuhuh) blank? I might stick one on a bass just to see how it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Well, I've seen them in catalogs, but have not found an online source for them. However, there are fossillized walrus ivory blanks available here. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruiser_dup2 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I have tried to let string tension hold the nut in place before, and found that it tended to slip when the strings were tightened. On a guitar with a bone nut, I have used Titebond glue with good results; just put a couple dabs on there, put the nut in place, and use the two outer strings with a little tension on them to hold the nut in place while the glue dries. With a graphite nut, I couldn't get the Titebond to hold; the nut kept slipping. So, I scored the underside of the nut, to give the glue something to hold onto, then put three drops of thick superglue on it and assembled it. That held fine. One thing about bone (and I suppose ivory is worse) is that it is HARD. I started with an oversize blank, and I filed and sanded on it until my arms were ready to fall off. I couldn't believe how hard it was to cut. Don't think I would try that again without investing in some power tools. If you can get a nut already cut to size, go for it. Bruiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franknputer Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Hell, a dab of Elmer's white would do the trick. You can use tension to hold it on, but you would probably be sacrificing a minimal bit of energy if the nut starts vibrating. Or, you might lose it - and that would be no fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundcrafter Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 When I tighten the strings on my bass...well, mainly the low B string, that end of the nut pulls out a bit. It's glued in, but for me string tension wouldn't work. I think I need to widen the nut a bit for the B and E strings, which are part of a new set I got of larger diameter than the stock strings it had(Ibanez GSR 5 string). Any tips for widening the slot, or should I go to my music store? "If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit. Unless you are a table." -Mitch Hedberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornbread_medhotmail.com Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Soundcrafter: When I tighten the strings on my bass...well, mainly the low B string, that end of the nut pulls out a bit. It's glued in, but for me string tension wouldn't work. I think I need to widen the nut a bit for the B and E strings, which are part of a new set I got of larger diameter than the stock strings it had(Ibanez GSR 5 string). Any tips for widening the slot, or should I go to my music store?Depending on the material, you can use a utility knife to shave the walls of the nut slot or a file to widen it. Don't deepen it, though. Now you have me worried that my nut will slip on my Stingray. I have to have one that's glued in because I change tunings so often that tension alone would not do. I could just see the nut falling out while on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMan99 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I dab of glue to hold on the nut would be best (don't know which is best), but don't use epoxy, or anything that will make it hard for a tech to get off in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 Y'all rock. Thanks for the replies so far. This is my tentative plan: I'm going to find out what my local tech would charge to cut me a graphite nut -- if it's not too much (c'mon, graphite nut blanks at Stew Mac are like $5 -- less if you buy them in bulk -- and labor can't be too much), I'll probably take that route. Why not experiment a little? And, I wanted to ask him a couple of other questions about my bass anyway. I'll keep the old nut, so I can change back if I'm not happy. If for some reason I'm dissuaded from doing that, I'll just use a drop of regular glue and put my original nut back in (actually not the original, that one cracked -- this is nut #2 for this bass). I'm going to stay away from fossilized nuts for now! BTW, my fretless fingerboard looks great all cleaned and oiled. Almost makes me not want to put the strings back on! spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMan99 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Sweet Willie: BTW, my fretless fingerboard looks great all cleaned and oiled. Almost makes me not want to put the strings back on! At the risk of stating the obvious, it seems prudent to get the strings back on ASAP. Might warp the neck leaving the strings off too long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Willie... I put graphite nuts on all of my guitars and have never, ever regretted it. Definitely a good idea. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 Goin' with graphite, gang! In the end, I said to myself, "Self, why not? Live it up a little!" I'll let you know what I think when I get it back in a couple of days. Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orphan wells Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 if you want to go extra bright and heavy do a brass nut but have a tech install it as to not mess up the action I didn't come here to play. I came here to make babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret_dup1 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Hmmm, when I first saw this post I thought someone just broke out of the looney bin. Alas, I'll have to agree with everyone else that graphite is definitely the way to go. I've got one on my bass, with the Teflon coating, too, and it sounds great. Do it, man...you won't regret it. Well, I see greenboy is back, so why the heck not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower8 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Anyone here tried any other materials for the nut for their basses? Also, speaking of oil for the neck, what do you recommend for cleaning rosewood necks? "Tea & Cake, or Death!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by Lawnmower8: Also, speaking of oil for the neck, what do you recommend for cleaning rosewood necks?I use boiled linseed oil (recommended by both Roger Sadowsky and Bob Gollihur ). I'm happy with that. Some folks like high grade lemon oil. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted July 26, 2003 Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 Got my bass back from the tech today w/ a brand spankin' new graphite nut! I played it a little at the shop before I brought it home, and have played it a little here at home. So far I don't really detect any differences in tone (other than those I usually hear from having new strings on the instrument, which I do). Maybe if I were able to A/B it with the old nut I would hear differences, but that just ain't gonna happen. I like the look of the black nut...a lot. (CMDN, can I join Cottonmouth DN now? My bass is black, w/ black pickguard and black nut, fretless pau ferro fingerboard -- thus dark-colored w/out any shiny frets to distract from the overall dark color scheme. ) I had also asked to have the action a touch higher at the nut (the strings had started to cut a tad into the fingerboard on the bridge side of the nut), so the feel is different, but only very slightly. The overall action is still very low and still very comfortable for playing. So, my final assessment is that graphite nuts are just dandy, and I'm happy to have experimented and made the move. I don't think the change was necessary, other than having slots that aren't quite so deep and thus the nut-end of my fingerboard is now better "protected." However, the raised action at the nut could have been done with any nut material. I would not discourage any of you from getting a graphite nut, but I also would not go out of my way to encourage you to get one. It feels nice and looks nice on this bass, and I'm hoping for good longevity from it. Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by Sweet Willie: So far I don't really detect any differences in tone (other than those I usually hear from having new strings on the instrument, which I do). Maybe if I were able to A/B it with the old nut I would hear differences, but that just ain't gonna happen.Now that I've had the bass back for a while and been playing it, I feel like the tone may be a little warmer. I was playing just last night and thought that it was sounding warmer than I remembered. Hmmmmm. Can't really say for 100% sure, though. (And, yes, I'm still EQing the same way.) Originally posted by Sweet Willie: I had also asked to have the action a touch higher at the nut (the strings had started to cut a tad into the fingerboard on the bridge side of the nut), so the feel is different, but only very slightly. The overall action is still very low and still very comfortable for playing. It's really feeling good. The slightly changed action has added a little dab of "more zing" to my sound (which is a nice balance to my perceived little dab of "more warmth" from the nut). As I've already written before, the overall action is really low on this bass, but that sligtly raised nut has had some impact on the sound. Then again, I could be dreaming all this. Otherwise my ears are a little sharper tonally than I have previously given them credit for! Sorry to self-indulgently drag this thread back out. Just sharing my thoughts. Peace. --s-dub spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincible Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 How much did people pay to have their graphite nuts fitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by Invincible: How much did people pay to have their graphite nuts fitted?I paid $40 (US). I have no idea if that's a lot or a little. It included some set-up work as well (perhaps this is obvious since I had requested a change in nut height). I was happy to pay it because I love the store where the tech works, and I don't really have the $$$ to buy serious gear there (new basses or amps). My little contributions to their ongoing existence come from purchases like strings and tech fees. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invincible Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Also... where did you get the boiled linseed oil from/how much? I heard of people using orange oil for cleaning maple fretboards, would it be ok to use that on a rosewood fretboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by Invincible: Also... where did you get the boiled linseed oil from/how much? I heard of people using orange oil for cleaning maple fretboards, would it be ok to use that on a rosewood fretboard?I got boiled linseed oil from my local, small hardware store. It's important that it's boiled -- the regular stuff is sticky/tacky. I don't remember how much it cost. It was with the wood treatment/painting supplies in the store. I don't know about orange oil and rosewood fretboards. It's probably fine. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I guess I'm missing something. How do different material nuts make a difference in tone? Open strings, yeah, but I personally rarely use open strings. Once the string is fretted, the nut is out of the equation. Just seems all this talk about different materials is really much ado about nothing, except in tuning where the string won't hang. Help an old geezer out, will ya fellas? Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by fig: How do different material nuts make a difference in tone? Open strings, yeah, but I personally rarely use open strings. Once the string is fretted, the nut is out of the equation. I changed the nut material on my bass a little bit as an experiment since my last nut came out and the slots seemed to be cut a little too low (providing an opportunity). I did not expect to hear a difference in tone. I went for graphite more or less for the heckuvit, and somewhat for the visual aesthetic of having a black nut on my black bass. However, I do think I'm hearing a slight difference in the tone of my fretless. Now, I definitely think it's possible that this is exclusively from the slightly higher nut, causing the string to lie differently on the fingerboard, and maybe even causing me to play differently in very subtle ways. But I'm not sure, and I'm hesitant to rule out the nut completely. I've heard some folks argue that anywhere where the strings are "connected" to or touch the instrument is an important location for the transfer of the string vibrations, and thus the tone of the instrument. However, I would still certainly rank the nut pretty low on the list of "key factors that affect tone." So what the heck am I saying? I don't put too much stock in the nut material on the bass having huge tonal impact (especially, fig, as you pointed out, when playing fretted notes), but my recent experience has caused me to reconsider the possibility that it has some impact, albeit small. If a nut breaks, I'd encourage someone to experiment w/ another material, but I definitely wouldn't encourage someone to switch out a perfectly good nut because such-and-such material makes a better nut. Peace. spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H. Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I used wood glue. It adheres to the plastic, but if you ever want to remove it, it flakes and releases fairly easily. http://www.identity5.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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