Jump to content
Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

MM2U pedal in the design stages (need opinions)


Talisman

Recommended Posts

First let me apologize if this comes across as spam. I don't intend for it to be. I'm not really trying to advertise anything, I'd just like your opinion on an idea that was inspired by you guys. I'm probably going to build it anyway, just for me, but I'd like to see who else would be interested.

 

A little while back, in one of the threads, someone mentioned an interest in a stomp box that would allow you to run clean and effected sounds through the same input of an amp. I already have a good idea of how it can be done, and have begun engineering it. I will soon order the parts and put the prototype circuit together.

 

It will have two inputs, an on/off footswitch for each input, a mix knob (I'm going to try to find a design that allows you to manipulate this with your foot), and a single output with level knob.

 

also, the mix knob will be differential. when you turn it toward "Audio 1" it will turn audio 1 up and audio 2 down, so you won't have to mess with the output level all the time.

 

What do you guys think? Should I build more than one? If there is enough interest in them, I'll send one to a trustworthy someone here on the forum for unbiased testing and review.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 18
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Interesting to have the balance control, but the basic idea is hardly new, Talisman.

 

Many companies make A/B boxes that can be used to direct one instrument to either effects/amp 1 or effects amp 2. Several allow simultaneous send to both amps. And these pedals can be reversed to choose one of two instruments/effects chains for one amp. In simultaneous modes both instruments feed the output.

 

I own the guts of a Morley A/B/C pedal, mounted in a custom housing. Morley had stopped producing them, and sold off their stock, just as I needed one for a fiddle player who doubled on mandolin and acoustic guitar. She didn't want to unplug/plug-in each instrument as needed.

 

A gentleman at Morley sent me an extra circuit board and several necessary parts. I went to an electrical supply for a few resistors and the case. He even soldered the LED's in place for me.

 

It works great. I wish it were a logic circuit, configured to switch to each channel simply by stepping on that channels switch, but it would be much more expensive to build.

 

I believe the product you want, minus the onboard balance control, is currently available from several manufacturers.

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

Soundclick

fntstcsnd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I'm picturing is a Y-cord coming from your bass. One side goes to one input of your box, the other side goes through a chain of effects and into the other input on your box. Then the box blends the two signals and the pot switches the balance between straight and effected. Finally one output goes to the amp.

 

Is that right?

 

I can see the use for that. I'd rather have a foot pedal like a volume pedal or wah than a dial. The pedal all the way up would be no effects, all the way down would be full effects and in the middle would be your blends.

 

Some amps already have an effect depth control (or mix of straight sound and effected sound) as part of the effect loop. Most effects pedals have this control as well.

 

Having a pot that would allow you to preset the effects blend would not be something that I would need, but it would be interesting to be able to do it on the fly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know there are A-B-Y switchboxes out there. This would be more of a mixer.

 

I also know that there are many amps out there with effects loops that have a level control (you could also use a volume pedal at the end of your effects loop). I was proposing this as an affordable alternative to buying an expensive amp head or preamp.

 

As for the Y cable coming from the bass, I could also add an "effects send" output from channel 1. I'm also thinking about adding buffer amps to each channel to prevent tone drain (although I'm not sure it would do much good).

 

I wasn't really aiming this post at the guys that have professional gear. I didn't figure they would have much use for it. It would certainly be better (soundwise) to run a separate amp for effects. This is more or less a way to get the most out of the gear you have, and to give yourself more tonal options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

What model is that box, Alex? It looks like a good box at a reasonably low price.

 

What seems to be needed here is a box with one input for the bass, one output for the amp, one input for the pedalboard and one output for the pedal board.

 

Pressing the switch puts the pedalboard into the chain and turning the pot blends the pedals into the straight signal.

 

It sounds relatively electronically uncomplicated. I know Talisman posted the original subject 6 months ago. Did you ever build one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just be aware that some pedals (anything digital with sampling going on) will introduce tone-sucking phase delays when mixed with a clean line signal. I've seen people go this route and then add EQ to each line in an effort to put some punch back in. But that is a band-aid that never stops the bleeding...
.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by greenboy:

Just be aware that some pedals (anything digital with sampling going on) will introduce tone-sucking phase delays

Good point. I am the opposite spectrum of Greenboy when it comes to this; all analog for me. :D

 

The new Bass PODxt sounds interesting, but I cannot deal with digital due to delay times, personally, and I some analog tools I really enjoy. And mixing digital and analog can lead to the problems when both signals are presented in a parallel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, Getz76,

 

I could care less about digital vs analog. The better digital stuff has hit the mark for a couple generations now (actually some of these have been analog/digital hybrids).

 

My main shopping checklist after audio quality has been that I like a single package with high-quality, rich and detailed effects, and prefer the virtual stomp box metaphor. I like the fact that each preset can have a totally different routing and "knobs" all in different positions when desired. And I like to have some foot control to actually change selected items (such as distortion drive or various wet/dry mixes in real time.

.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greenboy,

 

I agree, sound and flexibility are key.

 

Digital has not done it for me yet. I am not anti-digital, but I do notice the latency with the consumer products. I know others that do as well.

 

I also was in search of an all-in-one box that had real-time control. I tried out several models and always found something unsatisfactory, even after severe and extensive testing.

 

My analog pedal-board gives me what I need. It is a bit more work, but a couple of toe-taps get me to the tone I need when I need it. It is definitely a mish-mosh of brands (Demeter, Tech21 NYC, EBS, Aphex).

 

Then again, I go for 3 basic tones: deep and thuddy, flat, and overdriven; and

 

3 basic effects: envelope follower, octave down, and both together; and

 

2 basic volues: moderate and a little more than moderate.

 

My needs are not as diverse as others. Call me boring. Hell, I don't even pull out the pedal board sometimes. :D

 

That's the beauty; different strokes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't noticed the latency of anything I've used except for maybe latter-gen Whammy Pedal stuff after Digitech went to a different algorithm. Unless paralleled. I think we are talking sub-millisecond here. Nothing that upsets time.

 

The V-Bass is a good example of heavy heavy DSP use, and yet it doesn't throw one's feel offf one iota.

 

I haven't tried many digital stomp boxes though, or spent time paralleling the cheapest multifex preamp stuff since the BP-8 came out. At that point the mid-priced multieffects in most cases were getting up there with various boutique pedals. Of course, much of this is hybrid analog/tube/digital territory...

 

But some of the earlier stuff sure had some Gotchas, and I'm sure some of the cheaper stuff does too. But so does some of the pure analog cheap stuff.

.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by greenboy:

The V-Bass is a good example of heavy heavy DSP use, and yet it doesn't throw one's feel offf one iota.

I have not played a V-Bass, but I have yet to hear a bad thing about the beast. You seem to be happy with it. Just a little. :D
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by greenboy:

I don't know if I could go back to the factory sounds though.

Now that the thread is officially hijacked :D

 

Yeah, that's a solid point. I spent 4 days with the Boss GT-6B trying to get some useful sounds out of it and finally realized that I HATED the compressor and was not too keen on the distortion. It took SEVERE tweaking of the factory setting for me to get something useful (but that's me).

 

I decided it wasn't worth the effort for me. :)

 

On the V-Bass, how do you recover if your settings are lost? Can you store them on a file via MIDI? I'm clueless, but interested in that aspect. I figure you can spend a lot of time tweaking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by jeremyc:

What model is that box, Alex? It looks like a good box at a reasonably low price.

It's a Loooper from Dave Boggs. That's not my exact model, mine has a lightweight stomp switch for the blend on/off, and is in bright gloss white with blue LED (very groovy indeed) with different jack positioning to suit my pedalboard.

 

Alex

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just jammin', Getz : }

 

It does midi storage. It's got a good programming interface. It took me a few days to learn the parameters and take 4 factory patches up a couple notches in default sonic quality, incorporate my own bass magnetics for blends and changes, get the levels more even, and come up with a strategy for performance use of footswitches and treadle pedal (and the knob and 2 buttons on the GK-2B). All stuff most of the fatory patches leave out.

 

Any one of those patches could do service for a night and still provide tons of performance-oreinted variability. So I only do a new patch when I feel like I have a special reason for one.

.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...