I have to pay respect to Robert Trujillo

[PETE_COMBS]

I've stumbled acroos a band that I've been listening to later(INFECTIOUS GROOVES) and the bass in fast ,funky as hell and I like the style he play,the licks the grooves everything.I finally looked up who he was and it was metallica's new bassist.And hes bad, but he should of stayed with Infectious Grooves,he was a great creative bassist and on the go,but no he's playing fast riffs and a breakdown (what the guitarist is playing half the time or more,but he's good cant say he an't.

[...]

I gave some links to a bunch of stuff that he's done in this thread.

 

Metallica MTV Icon

 

As I mentioned in that thread, Trujillo is a monster. It surprises me that a lot of people aren't hip to the stuff he's done previously.

 

"Sarsippius ya dummy! Say it right... say it with pleasure"

[DWBass]

How can you turn down the Metallica gig??!! Money man, Money!! He'll be a millionaire by the time he's done with them!

[PETE_COMBS]

Then your saying he sold out for money>

[jeremy c]

Would you turn down the Metallica gig?

 

Maybe you like his first band better. Maybe he liked his first band better. Maybe he just likes to play bass and doesn't have that big a preference.

 

The Metallica gig is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for not only money, but also exposure.

 

It's very easy to criticize someone for a decision which you have never had to make.

[...]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Would you turn down the Metallica gig?

 

Maybe you like his first band better. Maybe he liked his first band better. Maybe he just likes to play bass and doesn't have that big a preference.

 

The Metallica gig is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for not only money, but also exposure.

 

It's very easy to criticize someone for a decision which you have never had to make.

Yep.

 

Hell, I'd do a Britney Spears tour, or a tour, or a rap tour. I'd even play bass for one of those shitty nu-metal bands like Limp Bisquik or Sum pi*r^2.

 

The opportunity and exposure alone would be worth it.

[BenLoy]

I sold out a long time ago.

 

"Sure man, I love your tunes. They'll all be instant hits if only an A&R guy would pay a visit to this grimy little club....yeah I know, those guys really don't know good music when they hear it. And I just love that transistor radio-esque guitar sound...really. So...am I getting paid in cash or check?"

 

[Basshappi]

Hey Benloy- Amen (sold)soul brother!

[PETE_COMBS]

He's was on a good road as a bassist for his original style,then he puts his self in a commercailized band just for the money and to be on mtv, that puts him down as a bass player,and metallica is a laughing stock,if the were to ask me I would tell them to shove it up there ass!

Sure stanley Clarke and the other greatist get paid, but they did sell out there soul for the instrument to get more exsposure or money,in a popular metal or in the mian stream area, thet stuck to there true roots.

[doc taz]

Heh, that's like telling me Jason Newsted sold out for money, too! Of course the money's great, ya dimwits! At least Jason had the good sense to leave when he did. Even though I don't like Metallica's new album (at least I heard the DVD session is better), Rob gets to play all the classics live. Remember, Rob didn't play on St. Anger's CD tracks.

 

As for his previous material, yeah, it's cool shit. Suicidal Tendencies, Infections Grooves, Zakk Wylde, all solid work. Great personality, too, from what I've read. Also, it's amazing to me how he can still play the bass the way he slings it! I could never do that...

[Tom Capasso]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

I sold out a long time ago.

 

"Sure man, I love your tunes. They'll all be instant hits if only an A&R guy would pay a visit to this grimy little club....yeah I know, those guys really don't know good music when they hear it. And I just love that transistor radio-esque guitar sound...really. So...am I getting paid in cash or check?"

 

Ben - be careful - Matt reads these sometimes...

 

Tom

[jeremy c]

I find it pretty amusing that someone thinks that Metallica is a commercialized band.

 

Have they ever been on AM radio?

Have they ever advertised a product?

Do they release singles?

Do they play ballads written by Diane Warren?

Have they played a casino in Las Vegas?

 

I mean this is a band that invented a certain style of heavy metal music, a kind of music which everyone my age abhors. And they managed to make it even more repellent.

 

They were a band that every fourteen year old guitarist in the country adored.

 

And then they, gasp, had the audacity to change their style a little as they grew older.

 

And they even cut their hair short!

 

They had the audacity to sue their "fans" for stealing their music online.

 

Then they made a new cd and hired a new bass player (in that order).

 

What horrible sell-outs!

 

How could they do such a thing!

 

I'd rather sit in my room and fantasize then ever take a gig with a band like that!

 

And now a new generation of fourteen year olds thinks they aren't heavy enough and they are a bunch of commercial hacks.

 

How the mighty have fallen!

 

Next you'll tell me that Linkin Park's next tour will be sponsored by Citibank.

 

And Clear Channel will open their flagship Thrash station in Cleveland and play nothing but unsigned groups...as soon as they are signed, they'll be pulled from the rotation...obviously signing a record deal means that a band has sold out.

 

Sam, at this point in your "career" you need to play with anyone who will have you. Forget about making lists of bands that you'll never play with. When you're in demand, then you can pick which band you want to be in.

 

And then you can quit when they have a hit single and "go commercial". It worked for Eric Clapton who quit The Yardbirds, Cream, and Blind Faith all because they got too commercial for him.

 

It didn't seem to work for Branford Marsalis who quit the Tonight Show gig because he didn't get to play the kind of the music he wanted to. He went from household name to unknown jazz artist overnight.

 

It did work for Steve Smith (although he didn't quit Journey, he was fired). The money he made has allowed him to follow his jazz muse. I've seen him playing in clubs with musicians he likes without having to worry about the money. And what happened to Journey anyway?

[wraub]

Jeremy- With much respect to you-

 

Originally posted by jeremyc:

I find it pretty amusing that someone thinks that Metallica is a commercialized band.

 

***Let's see... Major label, large tours, merchandise galore, product tie-ins/endorsements,

etc.

 

Have they ever been on AM radio?

 

***I would guess that a check with SoundScan, RIAA or similar would find, if nothing else, that "Unforgiven" has been played on AM. Besides, a lot of college stations are AM.

 

Have they ever advertised a product?

 

***They sure push a lot of their own merchandise. It is probably only for a lack of "placement opportunities" that we have not yet heard their music pushing paper towels or tampons.

 

Do they release singles?

 

***See Unforgiven, One, Harvester of Sorrow...

 

Do they play ballads written by Diane Warren?

 

***Not everyone does. If this is a definition of "selling out" than I guess no one has "sold out" or become commercialized, except for those doing Diane Warren songs.

 

Have they played a casino in Las Vegas?

 

***Again, not the only judge of "selling out" or commercialism.

 

I mean this is a band that invented a certain style of heavy metal music, a kind of music which everyone my age abhors. And they managed to make it even more repellent.

 

***How? They're not exactly GWAR. Repellent? Really.

 

They were a band that every fourteen year old guitarist in the country adored.

 

***At one point in time, you could have said this about The Beatles, and many negative and disparaging things were said about them too.

 

And then they, gasp, had the audacity to change their style a little as they grew older.

 

And they even cut their hair short!

 

***See The Beatles. But make the hair long.

 

They had the audacity to sue their "fans" for stealing their music online.

 

***Yeah, I could see how suing their fans to ensure that the band gets every possible last penny from every last possible avenue of sales might not come across as "commercialized."

 

Then they made a new cd and hired a new bass player (in that order).

 

***Actually, they did not hire a new bass player to make the CD, they went with a non bass player producer/engineer because it was the fastest way to get "product" to market. Then they hired a real bass player. This, in itself, speaks to a lack of respect for "the music", as opposed to "the band as a corporation." Not to mention a lack of respect for bass players.

 

What horrible sell-outs!

 

How could they do such a thing!

 

I'd rather sit in my room and fantasize then ever take a gig with a band like that!

 

And now a new generation of fourteen year olds thinks they aren't heavy enough and they are a bunch of commercial hacks.

 

***14 year olds probably hate them just because their elders liked them. 14 year olds do stuff like that.

 

How the mighty have fallen!

 

Next you'll tell me that Linkin Park's next tour will be sponsored by Citibank.

 

***It just might be.

 

And Clear Channel will open their flagship Thrash station in Cleveland and play nothing but unsigned groups...as soon as they are signed, they'll be pulled from the rotation...obviously signing a record deal means that a band has sold out.

 

***No, it takes a lot more than that to sell out, and you know it. Selling out goes deeper, and speaks to a certain personality type. You know, like Lars, calling himself a "lowdown, dirty rock & roll animal", and then getting into the chauffered limo and going back to the mansion, or touring in different buses for each band member.

 

Sam, at this point in your "career" you need to play with anyone who will have you. Forget about making lists of bands that you'll never play with. When you're in demand, then you can pick which band you want to be in.

 

***Agree with this 100%.

 

And then you can quit when they have a hit single and "go commercial". It worked for Eric Clapton who quit The Yardbirds, Cream, and Blind Faith all because they got too commercial for him.

 

***And look at the material that he has put out since. Not a whiff of "commercialism" to a bit of it, not even the hit single about his dead kid.

And beer commercials.

 

It didn't seem to work for Branford Marsalis who quit the Tonight Show gig because he didn't get to play the kind of the music he wanted to. He went from household name to unknown jazz artist overnight.

 

It did work for Steve Smith (although he didn't quit Journey, he was fired). The money he made has allowed him to follow his jazz muse. I've seen him playing in clubs with musicians he likes without having to worry about the money. And what happened to Journey anyway?

***Last I saw, Journey was on tour, playing the dinner theater/Branson circuit for mucho dinero.

And the circle of commercialism closes.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

 

p.s. Robert Trujillo rocks!!

p.p.s. And I am not even a Metallica fan, but if they call, I just might tour with them.

[getz out]

Originally posted by wraub:

p.p.s. And I am not even a Metallica fan, but if they call, I just might tour with them.

I'm not Metallica fan either, but why cut it off there? Hell, if Poison reunited and starting selling out huge gigs to screaming, big-haired broads from Staten Island, and they were willing to pay me tons of cash, I would tour with them. Selling my soul for rock and roll would beat my day gig any day. Plus, I would get use out of those hot-pink pleather pants from 1988 again.

[jeremy c]

Yeah, Wraub, you're right.

 

I suppose everything I've ever done was selling out. I like playing music and I get paid to play music. The act of playing music is more important to me than the specific music that I am playing. I suppose that means that I'm a soul-less hack who'll play anything for money. There are certainly some people whom I like playing with more than others, but it's more dependent on personality and musical chemistry than on style. I don't have to worry about Metallica calling me because I've never been in a metal band in my life. Almost every other kind of band, though.

 

The Clapton bit was a bit facetious... he did go on to great success as a commercial artist after having left bands for being too commercial.

 

Although I wouldn't really call Derek and the Dominoes a commercial band and Layla a commercial song. (Even though they became great commercial hits).

 

One of these days I'd like to meet Patty Boyd...she inspired Clapton to write Layla and George Harrison to write Something...she must really be something.

 

But I did think that Clapton meant "tears in heaven" from the heart. That's one of the reasons it was a commercial success, he meant it when he sang it.

 

You could say it was a good commercial move to write about a personal tragedy, but I'd rather hear that than another song about how lonely it is at the top, or how everything is awful and no one understands me.

 

The suits love it when somebody dies, it makes great press. That's why dying is such a great career move. They're promoting the hell out of Teddy Pendergrass now that he is in a coma.

 

Journey plays Branson now? Now, that's funny!

 

There's a place north of San Francisco called Konocti Harbor Resort where you can find many of the formerly famous bands. You can see Poison there next week and Hall and Oates in August.

 

I'm just my usual cranky self tonight, feel free to poke holes in everything I say.

[tnb]

Jeremyc, are you sure it's Teddy Pendergrass that is in a coma? I hope you mean Luther Vandross.

[PETE_COMBS]

Oh I can see that everybody is shooved up metallica's ass,leave me out!

[wraub]

Jeremy, nothin personal, I promise. I was also "in a mood", hope it didn't come across as mean spirited.

 

And of course Metallica MUST be commercialized, as they are but a means to an end-that end being "moving units". And, of course, this is true of any musician, band, or whatever who wants to make recordings of their music. With a decent recording in your hands, why not sell it, if only to cover costs.

Eventually, selling your music is the best way to attempt to buy new gear, right?

And new gear can help you make your music sound better, which can lead to better records, and so on.

Eventually, this road can lead to the holy grail-

Major Label Contract! Which is just an avenue to selling more, and making more, etc.

 

IMO, the having of a label deal, merchandise, etc. makes being a "sell-out" almost mandatory, because working at that level, with those kinds of monies flying around (usually someone else's monies) demands that you move product, if only to justify the label's time and money investment. You must sell records, but the label takes most of that money right away. Merchandising is often the best/only way for the band's to make money for themselves. Hell, some "bands" are really more about the merchandise than the music anyway.

 

i.e. Kiss is a rabid money grubbing duo.

 

The "musicians" you speak of, with no contracts, no touring, no merchandise, etc.-These are usually the first to decry another's "sell-out", while describing themselves as "keepin' it real" or some such nonsense.

All of us who make music to be heard by others, except for the Nepalese throat singers, are sell-outs, as both you and Ben said. And I would bet that even those Nepalese guys wouldn't turn down a hotel upgrade or a free meal every now and then.

 

Repellent seemed rather strong, but abhorrent sure fits a lot better.

 

Stay your cranky self Jeremy, please? Don't let little ol' me ruin your fun. Besides, we like you that way.

 

Hope we're cool.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[ibescotty]

Some Comments

 

Journey just rolled through town on a large arena tour with REO Speed Wagon and Styx.

 

They actually filled the arena somehow but that just might be a St. Louis thing.

 

I'd join almost any band that has "made it"

 

I would draw the line at Poison however. I don't care if they can still fill an arena. Riding an A song in and song out won't do much for your exposure as a bass player.

 

Nor will the pink spandex. Or I guess that would be the wrong exposure...

 

Metallica? They have the Kiss business mentality right now. It's kind of annoying for some reason. Maybe they'll make some music with content next album now that they have a pretty good bassist in the mix. Then again maybe not. Jason left the band for what he called creative differences. Guess he didn't like the direction either.

[jeremy c]

Yeah, Wraub, we're cool, as always.

 

I did mean Luther, not Teddy, sorry. Teddy had his own health problems a while back.

 

Gwar is the ultimate commercial band. They are completely based on a marketing concept and the music that they play is totally irrelevant.

 

We all filter our favorite bands through our own biases. We like the first album better, when the band was rawer, truer, stripped-down, and hungry.

 

Of course they didn't have the budget to make it the way they wanted to. Or the pressure to make it better than the last one.

 

Even Charlie Parker made an album with strings when he had a bigger budget. And he was proud of it.

 

People we think of as totally commerical may actually like the music that they play.

 

Eric Clapton may actually like to play the mellow songs he is now known for. He's actually been disappointing a significant segment of his fans who for years have been yearning to hear him play some burning lead guitar.

 

Celine Dion, who has one of the great voices of our era, squandered on Diane Warren ballads (one of my personal hatreds), may actually find meaning in the horrible pap she sings. Maybe that's as deep as she goes. Maybe there isn't a "real" or "deeper" side to her that she keeps hidden.

 

And of course Alanis Morrisette's debut album was probably just as calculated as her earlier attempt to be the next Debbie Gibson. Tell me that getting Flea to put his (out of tune) fretless little bass part on there wasn't to gain some street cred.

 

[aside to Pete} You're the one that started the Metallica bashing, now this has turned into a (slightly) intelligent conversation. Why not join in? Or wait until next year. College is one of the places where you learn to have intelligent conversations.

 

One band that I have played with, Jazz On The Vine, has sold over ten thousand copies of one of their independent cds. No press, no airplay, no label. But actually the whole band was a commercial idea by the leaders which succeeded. One of the cd's was picked up by a label, who demanded all kinds of changes "for airplay". Then the label went under and the band changed the songs back to they way they had originally intended them.

 

The band made less money when under contract than it did without a record company. So what else is new?

 

I didn't play "what I felt" on the cd, I played what they asked me to play and I'm very proud of what I did. Nearly all my parts were recorded in one or two takes. Or maybe I did play what I feel, I attempt to play everything that I play in the most real fashion possible.

 

I'm tired of typing, talk to all y'all's later.

[BenLoy]

He's was on a good road as a bassist for his original style,then he puts his self in a commercailized band just for the money and to be on mtv, that puts him down as a bass player,and metallica is a laughing stock,if the were to ask me I would tell them to shove it up there ass!

Pete, I know you're a young guy and you're full of idealistic integrity. More power to ya, it reminds me of when I was a strapping young lad (why do I keep implying I'm old when I'm only 27?).

 

But when you go out into the real world, you'll find your ideals being challenged by reality, and you're going to have to find a way to reconcile your idealistic vision about music, or end up being one of those bitter guys without any gigs, wondering why nobody will hire you.

 

I'm not saying you should play with anyone, no matter how bad their music is. But seriously, if you honestly had the choice, right now between staying in Hazard or being paid a couple thousand dollars a week on retainer (plus per diem) to be on the road with Metallica, I highly doubt you'd tell them to "tell them to shove it up there ass."

 

I'm not saying you should forget the reasons why you wanted to play music, but you should keep an open mind about things. I've taken gigs where I wasn't crazy about the music right away, but I found it would grow on me. Even if I didn't like the tunes, there were still individual challenges about the gig that were positive. You need to maintain a positive attutude, otherwise you'll end up becoming a bitter, angry jerk.

 

Metallica's new direction hasn't enthralled me very much, but I still found their tunes, production, and songwriting to be very competent and professional. Sure, their new stuff doesn't sound like "Master Of Puppets," and I admit I haven't gone out and bought their new records because I didn't like the music. But you know what? They'll still tear the shit out of tunes like "Battery" and "Creeping Death" live. You think in their old age they've fogotten how to play their old stuff?

 

And guess what? Robert Trujillo will get to play those ass-kickin' tunes onstage, in front of thousands of people with them! Imagine kicking into "For Whom the Bell Tolls" and turning back to see Lars, sweat pouring down his crazed, bug-eyed face, jumping down with the full force of his body onto his crash cymbals on the first drum hit. I'd learn some tunes off of "Load" and "St. Anger" to have that experience, wouldn't you?

[dcr]

Idealism is a really easy virtue to have when you don't have any responsibilities. Once mom & dad stop paying the bills, & now YOU are mom & dad, things change. Those kids are going to want to go to college some day; so what do you do now? Well, whatever it is, it had better be something that someone is willing to pay for. That's not selling out. That's how each of us gets ahead in a world in which we have to live together.

 

Selling out is when you give up your integrity. I have no reason to think that Robert Trujillo has done that, just because he's joined a cash-generating band I don't like. He gets to make his living every day playing music. I'll bet he's pretty thankful. And I'll bet he still maintains full possession of his soul.

 

And the really good ones find a way to make something that others will want to pay for, AND which they can be proud of. It's interesting that in another thread about Pink Floyd, most people put "Dark Side of the Moon" on their list of greatest PF albums. How many times have you heard "Money," or "Time/Breathe," or "Us & Them," or "Brain Damage/Eclipse" on the radio? More than a few? OK, how many times have you heard "Mademoiselle Nobs," or "Seesaw," or "Take Up Thy Stethescope and Walk," or "San Tropez," or "Ibizar Bar" on the radio? Never? Not even on AM? So was DSOTM a sellout?

 

Didn't think so.

[PJN]

I heard San Tropez in a Carls' Jr a few years ago coming out of those little speakers they have above the tables. It was really weird. I remember thinking that it was a rare tune to hear on the radio.

[doc taz]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

 

And guess what? Robert Trujillo will get to play those ass-kickin' tunes onstage, in front of thousands of people with them! Imagine kicking into "For Whom the Bell Tolls" and turning back to see Lars, sweat pouring down his crazed, bug-eyed face, jumping down with the full force of his body onto his crash cymbals on the first drum hit. I'd learn some tunes off of "Load" and "St. Anger" to have that experience, wouldn't you?

I know I would... my only problem would be having to do the Alcoholica drink fests the band's well known for. Oops, only three of them can do that now, even. Oh well, if I were Rob, at least I'd whip their pussy asses into shape, so we'd look like a nice, brawny bunch heh!

 

With the money I'd make being in Metallica anyhow, I'd just buy a PS2, a Xbox, a GameCube, w/games, and 5 PC laptops with a NAT router for some serious FPS (maybe loaded with UT2003 or Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell) action. Much more fun than gettin' drunk IMHO.

 

DAMN!!!

[Bisgit]

Rob did not sell out, he grew up and evolved. first he was with suicidel tend. then infectious grooves, then ozzy. he also produced the infectious stuff. I should strive to be a fraction of his carreer. a gig is a gig is a gig.

[The Bear Jew]

KoRn RuLeZ.

[reachjkh]

I'm ashamed. I had this awesome bass gig going in my bedroom and then this kick-a group of guys offers me this gig with computers 5 times a week! Well I thinking we might have a little problem with creative differences seeing as how they don't think that my rig looks good in my cube and all, but I figured it might work out ok since I now have the means to feed my kids and I can take my wife out to dinner and buy her stuff.

Ok your right. I am a sell-out. I hate myself now.

[bass samurai]

I would love to be in Rob`s shoes, just play music & surf.

[Gunslinger]

Alright I'll put my 2 cents in here. You guys have made some pretty good arguements here. Well heres mine. I was a fan from day one, I bought Kill em all back in 83. I was a DEVOTED fan for years, I was one of the long haired kids who not only said Metallica when asked our favorite band but SCREAMED it at the top of my lungs. These guys were Gods in our eyes. Like it's been said before, Black Sabbath created Heavy Metal, and Metallica Perfected it. And they did. But They seriously let us down. This is a band that came out SCREAMING "METAL UP YOUR ASS" and I have old magazines with Lars and Jaymz both saying you will NEVER see Metallica do a Ballad. Talked shit on anything and everything that they stand for now. As far as one persons comment on advertisments, have you looked at an ESP or TAMA ad in the last 15 yrs? They have been running ads with Metallica forever. These guys are GREAT. But the band I grew up Jammin on is long dead. These guys got money, spoiled, comfortable, lost the reason why they started doing this in the first place. I respect that they are still going at it, BUT I just cant listen to them anymore, they claim that they are as HEAVY as ever....I dont think so, Anybody can tune down to C and play discarded Coal Chamber riffs and sound "heavy". And to drop guitar solo's they might as well have fired Kirk, isnt that his job? It's just really funny everyone I know (who are the kind of people who made Metallica who they are) Hate anything by Metallica since Justice. I dont know one person who was into them in the 80's that still respects them. It's really sad. I miss Metallica. I know people grow, but hell if you want to talk about "thrash bands" look at Slayer, Anthrax, bands like this from the 80's the ones that are still around are still kicking ass, hell Slayer and Testament just released 2 of the best albums of their careers. Will they get as much recognition for them as Metallica will? No but who cares they love what they do and have stuck to their guns and havent let their TRUE fans down. As far as Trujillo is concerned who cares. He's a GREAT bassist and he's got a Great job with one of the BIGGEST bands in the world. more power to him. I just cant wait to see Newsted with OZZY!!!!!! Anyway thats my take on the Metallica subject. I was a fan from day one and in my opinion the Metallica we all grew up with is dead and gone. This is a new band, with new ideas (BOB ROCKS), And good luck to them.

[jeremy c]

Very well stated, Gunslinger.