davebrownbass Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 It was a big hit from my childhood. But the bass player doesn't know the song. He is listening...playing changes late...after he's heard them...playing wrong notes, altering his groove... So here's my question. Is this a work of sloppy genius or a work of inspired sloppiness. And if you cover the tune, do you play it, or, in homage to the original, sound like you're holding twins while you record? "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundWrangler Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I believe that's Ron Wood on bass. (If we ever did a thread about brilliant bass lines by non-bassists, I'm sure his name would come up more than once; "Emotional Rescue" is another example). I have to go with your "work of sloppy genius" option. If you can dare your drummer to play the glaringly obvious part from the original recording, it's a gas to play this bass line more or less as recorded - & the result is completely unlike the 999,999 godawful bar/jam versions of this song that annoy us all so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I think it sounds like a guy who almost knew the chart, and had the breakdown lick nailed. The rest has got more than a few clinkers in it. This is a bass part that probably sounded a lot better live, two months later, than the "classic" recorded version. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I love the song, always have. But now I have to listen to it again to see if I hear the same things you guys do. Definitely a wonderful bass part... and guitar part, and 12 string part, and possibly mandolin part, and vocal. (Appropriate drum part, but nothing really special.) It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 i recently had to cover that tune for a Rod Stweart impersontor here in Vegas and noticed how sloppy that bass track was-- i couldn't believe it! if i laid down a track like tht i ould be shot! i think either the bass player didn't know the tune or maybe they were wasted beacuse i dont hear it as sloppy genius at all- it just sounds crappy to me- maybe worse because im not a Rod Stewart fan - now, in the soundtrack to Super Fly for example, Curtis Mayfiled's score, there are a few tracks with sloppy weaving bass tracks that WORK- Super Fly, Pusherman, and Freddie's Dead are deliciously untidy. That's just one record that i can think of this early. Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Let's remember that the song was recorded in a very different time. Before ProTools and before everybody could afford studio time. And AM radio was still alive, so low sounds weren't considered in the same way for "hit" music. Too many variables back then to say why. I guess I didn't remember it as sloppy (I covered it once, but guess I was too young at the time to notice). I'll listen again. Sometimes the screwups make the music unique and give it character. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Adrian, what did you do on "That's the Way I Like It"? Isn't there a nasty little B that doesn't really go anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 read my small article in Bass Player about that. Seriously, good question- and i did address it when they did the Rick Finch article- the grrove is a Cm7 - but Rick snuck a b natural in there instead of the B flat- lots of guys dont play that- and of course , everyone covers that tune- but since i was playingit with the original artist- i went and dissected all those parts- there are a few other songs that have "wrong" bass notes that arent in the chord- but rick wasn't into theory and just played what felt good- and indeed it did- i have lot of restect for him because the KC sound was him- KC wrote the songs, but Rick made them happen- so yeh- the chorus is c and b natural in the bass- ( the first 2 notes) veyr avant grade when you think about it have you ever played "Nica's Dream" by Hoorace Silver? its got that B flat m ( major 7) thing- its cool.. i think Rick was checking out Horace when he did that- Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham56 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Tom said: Sometimes the screwups make the music unique and give it characterI'll have to remember that one: "C'mon guys, it's not me making a mess of things, it's me giving the music err..... 'character'." Yes, that's it....character! Cheers Graham www.talkingstrawberries.com - for rocking' blues, raw and fresh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I hit a wrong note once and someone in the band said, "what the hell was that?" and I said, "the flat thirteenth, what's wrong with that?" Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 i did the same- except i called it a "d demolished" triad- and then said " what's the matter, you guys don't know jazz when you hear it?" Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Jeremy, you've only hit a wrong note once! The pro's in here are better than I thought Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Cup, Jeremy hasn't hit a wrong note since he was a young grasshopper. He's remembering an incident in high school (or being metaphorical) for our benefit. Speaking of wrong notes, moving to the 5 string I found myself on the wrong string at times. That meant I was playing the V note, so I just told my mates that I was improvising. That gimmick failed when they saw me getting my hands tied up in the strings.... Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: I hit a wrong note once and someone in the band said, "what the hell was that?" and I said, "the flat thirteenth, what's wrong with that?"Yes, my favorite "jazz note" as I call them is my patented flatted ninth which I've been known to play late in an all-night bar gig. Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkW Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Originally posted by Scootdog: Yes, my favorite "jazz note" as I call them is my patented flatted ninth which I've been known to play late in an all-night bar gig.[/QB]I'm also a fan of using the major 7th and diminished 5th combo to start songs off, quickly moving to the more common 1st / 5th sequence before the listener has time to figure out quite what I was doing. I do this often in poorly-lit venues, as I feel it adds to the "mystique" of the songs. Every once in a while, though, I get that "knowing nod" from one of the patrons, and that's when I know I've truly made a connection with the audience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 when i have to play a tune i dont know- i go into "reggae mode" and just lay off the one until i hear the chord and then i play what i hope is the root of the chord i just heard- warning-- don't try this with " Cherokee" at 160 bpm!! Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 Originally posted by bassaddik: when i have to play a tune i dont know- i go into "reggae mode" and just lay off the one until i hear the chord and then i play what i hope is the root of the chord i just heard- warning-- don't try this with " Cherokee" at 160 bpm!!Funniest thing I've read today!!!!!! "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnb Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Originally posted by Adrian: when i have to play a tune i dont know- i go into "reggae mode" and just lay off the one until i hear the chord and then i play what i hope is the root of the chord i just heard- warning-- don't try this with " Cherokee" at 160 bpm!! That works especially well on Cherokee, you have a 1 in 3 or 4 chance of hitting something you can work with. Good thing too, some of the saxophone and guitar players around here seem to have the speed gene - not necessarily related to the musical gene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 thats because while youre busting a gut with the drummer walking thru the changes in " Cherokee"- the horn player playing the melody is only playing half notes. Until they solo of course, and then everyone knows all you have to do is run your hands acroos the keys on the sax REAL fast and it sounds like your playing "outside"- and then suddenly you hold a note for 8 bards and get a standing ovation.. meanwhile your hyperventilating and the drummer is having a coronary, which is noweher near as fun as having a Corona. Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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