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How do I get other musicians to respect me?


BassBAMF

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I've been playing bass for 2 years. I'm 16 years old in a metal band with our own original songs. Not to be conceded(sp?) but I've had countless non-musicians tell me I'm awesome, and our music is "the bomb", but whenever an older musician, older meaning 20-24 hears that I'm 16 they don't respect me. they pass me off as a young pissant ( which i've been called) and they haven't even heard me... how do I get them to listen to me?
Scott, there's a sound I want you to hear....
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The only way I've found to do it is smile, and when you get your chance, play your behind off. And I don't mean 32nd-note runs in every phrase. I mean make the song sound so cool, the groove so obvious, that they can't help but love it.

 

And don't worry too much about who respects you and who doesn't. If you keep playing and getting better, it'll come.

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Sage advice from our P.C.

 

I'll bet you're a talented young player...I'll bet you have a lot of potential.

 

But you know (and I'm being brutally honest here) there are thousands of young musicians just like you.

 

And the guys "diss-ing" you used to be just like you.

 

And the guys that are "diss-ing" those guys used to be just like you too!

 

In fact, I used to be just like you! But I haven't been a teenager in 30 years.

 

And one thing we all learn as we grow up is that our opinion of ourselves is often deluded.

 

Robert Burns once said,

"Ah, what gift should the giftie gi'e us,

Than to see ourselves as others see us."

 

There comes a point in life (Socrates taught this as a lifelong discipline) that intelligent people assume they know nothing.

 

That's when real learning begins.

 

So, what do you do?

 

Become a nerd.

 

Begin a journey of true self-examination. Take criticism seriously...not the part that hurts and devalues you as a person, but the part that says..."You're dragging. You're rushing. You are faking it. You are not clean. You have a limited note vocabulary." Or whatever your critics are saying.

 

Study yourself with a jaundiced eye...it's the quickest way to get ahead.

 

Luck to you, and truth.

"Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread.

 

Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate.

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I too started playing when I was very young, in a band of older guys. And yeah, it used to really piss me off when people didn't take me seriously (and I had the double strike against me of being young AND female!)

 

The ONLY way to deal with this is to rise above it and not let it bother you. Or at least, not SHOW that it bothers you. You have to accept that people have their prejudices, often based on past experience, and it's up to you to break them. Let's face it, the majority of 16 year olds aren't very good, so you can't blame people for thinking YOU probably aren't good. If you ARE good, though, that will actually work in your favor in the end, because everyone loves a "prodigy."

 

So really, you just need to laugh it off as much as possible and don't take it too seriously - that's the biggest sign that you're not mature. If you can laugh in people's faces and have fun when you're playing, it will give people the idea that you know something they don't. Try going to some open mics, and jamming with older people in a relaxed atmosphere. If you're good, they'll come around in a hurry (unless they're just jealous), and that will help you earn a reputation.

 

Beyond that, you just gotta suck it up, realize that everyone pays their dues, and wait a few years till you get older... it happens before you know it!

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Damn smart-ass kids....

 

GET OFFA MY LAWN!

 

If that bass lands on my property again, I'm keeping it.

 

Seriously, I've run into a lot of younger folks who can play their asses off. Some of them know it and act cocky and obnoxious about their abilities. That sucks. Nobody likes a conceited person -- old or young. Some of them, however, are humble and understand that one person doesn't make the band -- the music is bigger than they are. These folks ultimately go farther in music (and in life).

 

You want respect? BE RESPECTFUL! Respect is a two-way street. Give it, and it'll come back to you.

 

Always try to be they person who shows respect first. Anyone who doesn't return it, doesn't deserve it -- young or old.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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Originally posted by CMDN:

You want respect? BE RESPECTFUL! Respect is a two-way street. Give it, and it'll come back to you.

 

Always try to be they person who shows respect first. Anyone who doesn't return it, doesn't deserve it -- young or old.

Bingo. :thu:

 

Sometimes this isn't easy. If someone rips you -- not constructive or thoughtful critique, but hurtful stuff, leave them be and let it go. It sucks, but they're the ones having issues, not you.

 

It can be hard sometimes to listen to tough crit, but you can learn a lot from it. It can also be hard sometimes to be the first to show respect, but it definitely pays off.

 

Peace.

spreadluv

 

Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars.

Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk.

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Word. There's also another way to make anybody like you - make them feel smart . Ask them about their music, gear, tastes . . . etc., and BE SINCERE about it. People love to talk about themselves and give their opinions, so ask and listen. It's funny how much this really works. And once you've let them inflate their ego talking about themselves, most people will naturally take a liking to you since you allowed them to feel better about themselves. Then they'll tend to take an interest in you and not dismiss you as a pissant.

 

Mind control, it's all about the mind control.

Ah, nice marmot.
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Originally posted by Scootdog:

Word. There's also another way to make anybody like you - make them feel smart . Ask them about their music, gear, tastes . . . etc., and BE SINCERE about it. People love to talk about themselves and give their opinions, so ask and listen. It's funny how much this really works. And once you've let them inflate their ego talking about themselves, most people will naturally take a liking to you since you allowed them to feel better about themselves. Then they'll tend to take an interest in you and not dismiss you as a pissant.

 

Mind control, it's all about the mind control.

These are not the droids your looking for....

:D

Double Posting since March 2002

Random Post Generator #26797

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Post of the Day to ibescotty for the random Star Wars Episode IV (Formerly known as Star Wars) reference.

 

That's hilarious!

"Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread.

 

Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate.

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remember even though it feels good to get respect rom those guys,f em they dont need to know you or what you can do even though being noticed by other musicians can help as a bassist and give you more musical background,but they dont need to know you.I wouldn't even worry about them,A nother way that you can get noticed ,do something they cant do.
Pete Combs...
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Lets take a different approach.

Why do you need these people to respect you?

 

Does it honestly help you sleep better at night if someone claps you on the back and says good job?

 

From the way you have described them so far, they seem unworthy of youre time, atleast if they were in my life thats how i would brand them.

 

In other words....Screw them.

Double what we got o mr. roboto

 

Double

Double

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Thanx a lot guys... I got this egotistic junkie for a guitarist/leadsinger who is a dad and has no awareness for his responsibilities ( not to mention how he likes to whip his cock out in the middle of practice and brag about shaving all the hair off) and I can't stand the way he treats us all.... this helped
Scott, there's a sound I want you to hear....
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Do you really need the respect of a guy who has to whip out his cock to the band for ANY reason?

 

Beyond idiots like that, just be respectful, always play your best, always strive to get better, and STAY CLEAN. You will eventually earn a reputation as a good, solid, and RELIABLE player. I can't think of any attribute that garners more genuine respect in the music community and the world at large than honest reliability.

Cheers!

 

Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor

www.llarion.com

Smooth Jazz

- QUESTION AUTHORITY. Go ahead, ask me anything.

http://www.llarion.com/images/dichotomybanner.jpg

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Originally posted by BassBAMF:

...not to mention how he likes to whip his cock out in the middle of practice and brag about shaving all the hair off...

Yer on your own there buddy.
Ah, nice marmot.
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Dude if your playing with an egotistical fagot with a small penis kick him in the balls or just do something really funny and mean. then take the rest of the band and leave. Some people may not respect you for being in a band with a rumpranger.

not sorry to offend anyone :thu:

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Oh yeah, YOU're the one to chime in on this.

 

BassBAMF, dude--there are SO MANY REASONS for you to get out of this situation, that trying to figure out how to get respect here is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

Live & let live. Just get out & get on with your life. Nothing good will happen until you do.

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Originally posted by sam 2000:

Dude if your playing with an egotistical fagot with a small penis kick him in the balls or just do something really funny and mean. then take the rest of the band and leave. Some people may not respect you for being in a band with a rumpranger.

not sorry to offend anyone :thu:

YEAH!!! THEN MEYBHE U KOULD BEET HIM DOWN WITH YOURE BASS BECAUS HES SO TOTALLY GAY SMALL PENIS GUY. FOLLOW HIM HOME AFTER BAND PRAKTICE AND BURN HIS HAUSE DOWN FUK YEAH THAT WOULD JUST BE SOMETHING REALLY FUNNY AND MEAN! DONT FORGET ABOUT THAT KICK IN THE NUTS!!!!
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Originally posted by BassBAMF:

Thanx a lot guys... I got this egotistic junkie for a guitarist/leadsinger who is a dad and has no awareness for his responsibilities ( not to mention how he likes to whip his cock out in the middle of practice and brag about shaving all the hair off) and I can't stand the way he treats us all.... this helped

You are 16, right?

 

In case you don't know, this man has committed a criminal act (at least in Texas it's criminal.) If you are telling the truth about this, you must immediately get out of the situation and report the crime to authorities.

 

Sissonville, West Virginia. Hmmmm. As a public school teacher I'm obliged to report any suspected child abuse to the proper authorities. I don't know my legal responsibilities as they pertain to information that I garner over the internet...however, you've gone and opened up this can of worms.

 

Now, I don't know you from Adam; I know an allegation that has taken place in a possibly fictitious city.

 

Look, you may just think the guy is annoying or perhaps funny, but he can be a danger. If he has no consequences for this behavior, he may move it to then next level...you are in a position to stop it right here, perhaps saving some other youth untold grief.

 

Why is an old married guy playing music with a bunch of teenage guys anyway? This is very suspicious.

 

Please, let the forum know about the outcome of this.

"Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread.

 

Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate.

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davebrownbass -

There comes a point in life (Socrates taught this as a lifelong discipline) that intelligent people assume they know nothing.

 

That's when real learning begins.

 

So, what do you do?

 

Become a nerd.

 

Begin a journey of true self-examination. Take criticism seriously...not the part that hurts and devalues you as a person, but the part that says..."You're dragging. You're rushing. You are faking it. You are not clean. You have a limited note vocabulary." Or whatever your critics are saying.

 

Study yourself with a jaundiced eye...it's the quickest way to get ahead.

Well said!!! Confucius had similar teachings too.

 

All I dare add is, contact me when you're at least in your mid 30s and say "I'm 16 years old in a metal band " again.

 

See if it bears the same importance to you and others at 35 ++.

 

And do see the police about the "exposure" incident. That's just SO wrong on so many levels!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; one lick and you suck forever.
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Okay, first of all, there are enough lead singers in the world that WON'T point their dicks at you in rehearsal that you can leave without missing anything. And like the other guys said, call the cops on his perverted ass, like YESTERDAY.

 

As for the respect part: some people just won't respect a younger player, no matter how good he is. Some of it's prejudice, as though you just won't deserve their respect until you're old enough to vote and drink, no matter how talented you are. Some of it, depending on how good you really are, is insecurity. No one likes to think of the possibility of being smoked on their instrument by some kid. Thus, to them you are a pissant. And, like Mike said, screw them.

 

To get respect, give it, and also do your homework so that you can deserve some too. Get your chops together as cleanly as possible. Be considerate and respectful of other musicians. You can always, and I mean ALWAYS, learn something from EVERY musician you come across, even if you only learn how NOT to do things by hanging with them. Yes, there are probably some older players that you can outplay (and many of them could probably play rings around you, but they just don't feel like it), but you can still benefit from their general knowledge if they've been around the block a few times. They might give you good tips on anything from arranging songs to booking gigs to choosing the right fly threads to wear on stage.

 

The best course is to decide what sort of player you want to be and plot a course to get there. Some will recognize your efforts; thank them. Some will belittle you because of their own prejudices; piss on them.

 

"Some's bastards, some ain't, that's about the score." - William S. Burroughs

"I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it."

 

Les Paul

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Dude it is not normal for anyone to expose themselves in such a way. However, like DBB said in most places exposing yourself to a 16 year old is illegal.

 

If he is an older guy in a band with younger people he could be using his age/experience/lack of respect for others to play mind games and to become a leader of the group. If he is established as the alpha male he may also be trying to set the social rules and values of your group. The problem is that what he is trying to establish as a normal behaviour is in no way normal. You need to get some serious distance from him right away. Discuss this with other band mates. He could be a sexual predator. Please you came to this forum for advice, listen to the wisdom of all the above posts and act on it.

 

Singers and guitarists are a dime a dozen but a half decent bass player will have bands lining up to take him on board. You want respect, or to feel valued, stand up for yourself and what you want. You need to know what you want from your band mates and let them know your values (musical, social, spiritual, moral), they may have to rise to them. They have to know when they cross the line.

 

Good Luck.

Providence over serendipity any day.
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I'll reply to your two posts.

 

The weird guy in your band is weird. Normal people, even talented unique individualistic artists, do not behave this way. Unless he's an absolute genius and you think that being in the band would do you some good in the long run, get out. One character that I've seen pull this prank (pun intended) had a serious cocaine problem and he also ended up having a lot of trouble getting people to work with him. He finally dried out in his old age, but many people still don't want to work with him.

 

As for your other question, I'll give an old fart point of view. If a sixteen year old who thinks he is a hotshot tells me that he is a "heavy metal musician" I'll probably roll my eyes a little (while trying to hide it) and say, "that's nice". And then I'll go my merry way and ignore him.

 

Come back in a few years when you are a musician.

 

Even good old bald-headed me could walk into a heavy metal band and play the parts with one rehearsal (although I will say that many guitarists in this style can play pretty damn fast) but there is no way you could walk into a single gig of mine and hold your own.

 

Nothing really wrong with that, but learn how to play everything (you are a bass player, aren't you? not just a heavy metal bass player?)

 

Yeah, your friends and classmates will say that you're great and from their perspective you are. But if you want "older musicians" to say you're great, you have to have skills which older musicians can relate to.

 

There are many musicians who will not respect anyone, of any age, who cannot play bebop tunes at the original tempos. I run into them all the time. They don't respect me either because, even though I can play the bop tunes, I don't play them on upright.

 

In my own little personal world view, I tend not to really respect any other musician until I hear how they play in a totally new situation, as opposed to their rehearsed band.

 

I actually saw Eddie Van Halen, one of the great rock guitarists of all time (of course your opinion may vary) get almost blown off the stage. This was at a NAMM show jam session and he was onstage with Albert Lee and Alan Holdsworth. When I saw the billing, I immediately thought, "good luck, Eddie".

 

The Holdsworth fans probably left with less respect for Van Halen and more for Albert Lee, as Lee and Holdsworth traded solos and all Van Halen could answer with was whammy bar noises.

 

On the other hand, Jeff Beck could play with anyone as evidenced with his work with Jan Hammer. the Yardbirds, and his own greatly varied bands.

 

So I would rate Mr. Beck way higher than Mr. Van Halen.

 

For another example, there are the Burning for Buddy videos. This was a project that Neal Peart started to pay tribute to the great Buddy Rich. Peart practiced the Buddy Rich drum parts for a year. The other name drummers that played on this project came in and sight-read the parts. And swung way more than Peart.

 

So who do I respect more? Neal Peart who has been in a great band for decades, or Steve Gadd or Vinnie Coliauta who can sight-read anything and make it sound like they have been playing it for decades?

 

Anyway, to make a long story nauseating (as one of my friends would say), keep practicing, be a great player, be a great individual, respect yourself and others, and good things will happen.

 

And even if they don't, you still will have lived a good life.

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keep practicing, be a great player, be a great individual, respect yourself and others, and good things will happen.

 

And even if they don't, you still will have lived a good life.

Very sage. (the rest of the post was great too, but this was very striking. Listen to it. And turn in the sexual deviant guy.

Cheers!

 

Phil "Llarion: The Jazzinator" Traynor

www.llarion.com

Smooth Jazz

- QUESTION AUTHORITY. Go ahead, ask me anything.

http://www.llarion.com/images/dichotomybanner.jpg

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Pardon me if this is off the avenue thispost has taken, but...

 

To get respect for being a musician, you should actually learn the instrument. Inside and out. Work out your dexterity, speed, technical knowledge, vocabulary, etc. DBB (as usual) is right- no matter how good you are, there are thousands just like you. I've seen and played with many in my area. An easy way to rise above those masses is to learn and apply some music theory. Not only does the vocabulary make one sound more intelligent, it will show in your playing.

Besides, as your playing becomes more erudite and evolved, other, better players will notice. When you play with more experienced musicians, others' opinion of you goes up as well.

...think funky thoughts... :freak:
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