compressors--pedal vs. rackmount

[dcr]

Thoughts? I mentioned in the "effects" thread that I'd like to get a decent compressor. I see Boss rackmounts (e.g. RCL-10) going for, if anything, less than pedals do, and even as a half-rack they still have many more functions than their pedal counterparts. The obvious benefit of the pedal is that it's foot-controlled, but if that's not a big deal, wouldn't I do just as well with a decent rackmount?

[jeremy c]

A rack mounted compressor will do loads more than a pedal. And if you do use compression, you're not going to be turning it on an off like a chorus, you're going to find a good setting and leave it there.

 

Get the rack mount, but first decide if you really need it. Why? If you need it to "even out your playing" or "protect your speakers against dangerous spikes" I would recommend working on your technique instead.

 

I don't even use compression in the studio. But that's just me.

 

Buy the rack mount and I'll stop blathering.

[dcr]

That's helpful! Thanks!

 

It's not really about evening out my technique. (And I don't slap.) But when I define patches on the multi, I find that I always put in some compression, just because I like the "texture" it gives, if that makes sense. I like the sound.

 

Good advice though--don't let a machine be a crutch for poor playing.

[_Sweet Willie_]

I have an EBS MultiComp pedal. I tend to only use compression, and just a bit, for when I slap (which is not often, but does happen). In this case, the pedal is perfect for me. I can pop it on for some slap, and then pop it off. This particular pedal is quite tasty as far as compressor pedals go.

[tnb]

After years of always running through a 160xt I finally quit using compression. Took quite a few years to get the compression monkey off of my back. Makes me wonder how companies like SWR, Eden and EBS get away with putting it in their amps.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

yeah, my carvin amp has one-knob compression in it, and i guess it doesn't sound too bad when it's below 2 (out of 10). still, i wonder what's the purpose of having that on your amplifier.

 

personally, i'm not that interested in compressors, with the exception of dual-band compressors, maybe. both the trace dual compressor and the digitech x-series compressor are dual-band. i have found that the big bottom, yet still defined and articulate in a way that can't be done by turning up the bass knob is achieved by compressing the low end separately from the rest of the signal. i guess they don't have to be dual-band, since i really only want to compress the very bottom end.

 

a good compressor can be a beautiful thing, but it's one more thing i need to mess with that i don't need to. it can sound cool, but i'd prefer to save the weight in my rack.

 

robb.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by robb.:

personally, i'm not that interested in compressors, with the exception of dual-band compressors, maybe. both the trace dual compressor and the digitech x-series compressor are dual-band. i have found that the big bottom, yet still defined and articulate in a way that can't be done by turning up the bass knob is achieved by compressing the low end separately from the rest of the signal. i guess they don't have to be dual-band, since i really only want to compress the very bottom end.

 

The EBS MultiComp has a multiband setting, w/ trimpots inside the pedal that can be set for differing amounts of compression for high freq and low freq. I have not experimented w/ that feature, as the "tubesim" compression setting really works for me.

[Basshappi]

Hi dcr,I have used pedal-type compressors in the past(mxr)and I have one in my zoom506II. I don't use just the compressor by itself though. Seems to sound better with a distortion effect. As for the rack mount units, I have an Alesis 3630 in my P.A. rack and it is a very good unit and you can pick them up new for $100! However, I haven't plugged my bass through it so I can't give you any advise there.

By the way-different topic- in another thread you asked when I saw Jethro Tull. I saw them in Lubbock, Tx. I don't remember the exact year but they were on tour for their "Stormwatch" album so '79-'80 maybe? Fantastic show, perfect sound!

Now; Back to our regularly scheduled thread....

[alexclaber]

The best budget option is a Trace Elliot Dual Compressor pedal - both transparent and punchy, and extremely easy to set. See if you can find one on ebay - on bass they sound as good as any other compressor I've heard.

 

I wouldn't dream of recording without mine.

 

Alex

[PhilMan99]

Might be worth distinguish between the line-level you want. It seems like most stomp-boxes have a lower line-level (instrument-level?) than most rack-mount stuff.

 

This can have implication for use in an amp's effects-loop and with a mixer. I think the rule-of-thumb is that rack-mount stuff is better for an amp's effects-loop and a mixer, but stomp-boxes are fine to just plug into an amp's (preamp) input.

[73 P Bass]

I don't think the format of the effect really matters. Some pedals can do more, and some rackmounts can do more.

I have a Boss compressor pedal (CS-2?), and it sounds pretty good. I also have a

Boss GT-6B multi-effect unit that "models" the dbx 160 compressor. It sounds pretty good. That being said, right now I'm not using either, and I'm very happy with the dynamics I can create naturally with my attack.

I also have a Nemesis combo with a built in compressor, which when switched on, works in direct effect with the pre-amp gain. It very subtle, and I usually leave it on when I use that amp.

So use your ears and find what you thinks sounds good.

[Dave Martin]

I'd suggest (as have others) that you avoid a compressor for live work; you'll be a lot better in the long run if you simply develop your technique to the point that you don't need a compressor live.

[mcbn]

Using the SEARCH function (hasn't that been mentioned lately???) I found this post from about 8 months ago.

 

So my questions to DCR are:

 

Did you get a rack or pedal compressor?

 

Which one did you buy?

 

What is your reaction to the unit?

 

Also, anyone else have any views on compression units?

[PhilMan99]

For rack-mounts, be sure to watch "line-levels". They aren't defined too well from what I've seen, but there seems to be:

* Instrument-level: -50dB

* Line-level: -4dB

* The "other" Line-level: 10dB

 

I just use "stomp-boxes", but learned about the above when I had a "hum" (grounding) problem, and needed a solution (EbTech "hum eliminator" in my case).

 

For great sound "on the cheap", take a peek at the Fishman Platinum Pro-EQ Bass:

* 1-knob optical compressor

* 5-band equalizer

* Hi-pass filter for very low-end to control "boomyness"

* Both gain & volume control

* XLR DI & 1/4" out

* "Voltage doubling" internally, which gives

lots of overhead

* $170.00

* Note: No "stomp-switch" - this is meant to be on all the time

[dcr]

NUTT, I got a Digitech BP8 multi, with a compressor. I like the BP8 a lot, & the compressor works fine on it; I use the BP8 all the time. But I'm not sure I really find a compressor all that critical for me, after all. Well, there you go.

[SteveC]

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but it seems like when it comes up, one of the first things mentioned is the "it won't fix technique" line or things like that.

 

Compression isn't all about that, is it? Isn't it used often on recordings? Doesn't it give a more "even" sound?

 

I don't know the answers, that's why I'm asking. I haven't been around as much as some of you guys. I go back and forth between "should I have a compressor or not" all the time.

[way2fat]

Dave/Jeremy- I don't know anything about compression. What is it in technique that does what a compressor does? i.e., does compression change note length or amplitude or something else? What is the smoothing out referred to above?

[mcbn]

I'm working on my technique as much as I can and I am improving. One of my biggest problems though is the difference in my playing style when I'm practicing and when I'm on stage. My technique is great at practice. I'm starting to notice different sounds and tones coming from a good right hand technique. BUT when I'm on the stage it is a totally different story. I find myself digging in with everything I have. I'll notice it, back down for half a song, and start right back into it. I am still relatively new to playing on stage and I still tend to get a little excited. Hopefully I will always be excited about playing in front of a crowd AND be able to control my right hand.

 

Any-who, that is one of the two reasons I'm looking into getting a compressor. The second reason is that my band does our own recording and we need to compress the bass (according to the guitar player/recording engineer).

[mcbn]

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

The best budget option is a Trace Elliot Dual Compressor pedal - both transparent and punchy, and extremely easy to set. See if you can find one on ebay - on bass they sound as good as any other compressor I've heard.

 

I wouldn't dream of recording without mine.

 

Alex

I picked one of these up on eBay for $60 on Alex's recommendation. He'll get a couple PMs for initial settings once it gets here.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by NUTT:

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

The best budget option is a Trace Elliot Dual Compressor pedal...

I picked one of these up on eBay for $60 on Alex's recommendation.

Bargain!

 

Originally posted by NUTT:

He'll get a couple PMs for initial settings once it gets here.

Here\'s the manual. and it's pretty intuitive once you've read that. Rushing out of the office now, I'll finish this later!

 

Alex

[g.]

The Trace-Elliot, it's a limited-settings item anyway. I've often recommended it because it's about the cheapest example around of multi-band compressing that actually allows some easy access to more than one or two parameters, and the bass is the instrument that most benefits from this approach.

 

You can get some pretty wild effects out of one, but also get some of the most track-worthy natural sounds that seem so natural and untouched - other than the bass is always supporting the mix absolutely in the best sense. A lot of bang for 60 dinars!

[g.]

Hey NUTT,

 

Check out Rane's Squeeze Me, Stretch Me: The DC 24 Users Guide - also available as a pdf linked at the bottom of the page. That'll really help you, with some settings info from Roger Nichols and others with great reps (Steely Dan?!?!) for studio and live use, and plenty of focus on bass guitar.

 

The Rane DC24 is a bigger rack brother to the T-E floor unit but built around the same principles, so this should help you for recording or live.

[Nicklab]

The Trace Elliot is good for live situations. Pretty easy to use, and gets the job done. For the studio, I think I'm inclined to find something a little higher up the price ladder. Most studios have good or great compressors compared to what most of us have individually. And sometimes, the engineer might know one compressor better than the other.

[g.]

Yeah, the T-E is no professional studio compressor to be used for international releases. But a guy doing the project studio thing can get good use out of one or two.

 

Grabbing a rack full of Rane DC-24 and the like is a smart move for fidelity since that compressor has the specs and the trackrecord of big releases, and guys going to all-digital signal chaines often dump them for between 2 and 3 hundred dinars on eBay.

[SteveC]

greenboy,

 

Thanks for the link on the Rane DC24. Very interesting. From reading that, I think some tasteful compression may not be so bad. Especially if you can use the crossover, process them individually, then combine them again.

 

I don't want it to "compensate" for technique, but I do think some subtle "evening out' of dips or peaks is so bad....is it?

[mcbn]

I'm glad that you think I made a decent purchase, oh Green One.

 

I'm at work. Will write more tonight, and/or when I get the pedal in.

 

Thanks for the links/manual.

[g.]

Compression is practically a universal in the studio, and bass is one of the places it is especially used. Read what the players say, and then rwad what the engineers and producers say when the players have left the studio ; }

 

A year or three of MIX or EQ magazine straightens THAT right out if you don't get around many experienced studios ; } - in beat-oriented music it isn't so much about what the player can do well - it's about building the mixes up layer by layer and having the tone of each instrument peaking through without obscuring others in increasingly complex mixes, and for the bass/kick combo especially it's about having a lot of low end warmth and punch without necessarily having the upper part of the sound always at the same level of exposure.

 

It also used to be about the radio, and the Fletcher Munson curve. The lower you go, the more it helps to have some tools. That's why that Rane Note talks about bass a fair amount. Standard compression can be kind of annoying on bass in many circumstances: pumping, breathing, emphasis of midrange and treble and submerging of the lower frequencies (because of energy levels of lower freqs), and sidechaining an EQ can help, but nothing like having several bands of independent compression can.

 

And of course players still need to be more even to sound better and to not waste so much time on trying to set things like compressors to compensate. Skill is always better than trying to fix it in the mix.

 

But compressors are fantastic tools and are a much larger part of SR and recording than many seem to realize - especially when you get further into electric and electronic musics.

 

I still think they also are a nice part of the live rig (with smart use), to get some of what has been lost by not using tube power stages.

[SteveC]

i think I may try the Rane. The only problem is that I will loose my small 2 space rack and have to go to the bigger 4 space. Oh well. Still not too bad.

[g.]

You can always use it for other things: x-over,

2 noise gates or downward noise expanders, limiters AND compressors etc on PA mains or monitors or specific tracks or submixes. Or all of the above in the studio. It can really clean up tracks that hiss or hum ferinstance.

 

It does so many things well that if it doesn't end up in your live bass rig it can still be an asset.

 

That's why I have three.

[mcbn]

My use of the compressor will be for recording. My guitar player does our recording and compresses the bass WAY too much after I record. So I plan on using this in my signal chain when I record.

 

Secondly, I am still working on consistency in my technique. I am getting better on the 3 higher strings, but just seem to really beat the heck out of the low C or B string (depending on the bass). So I'll be using it for live sound to help out a little bit and hopefully even out my overall tone. I don't plan on squashing the sound, just putting a little cap on it.