Mike R. Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I've been playing with my guitarist/friend for about 3 years and him and I have started to gig. I've been useing an old Sunn amp (borrowed from friend and I dont know exactly how many watts)Icant hear myself at all and to add to that problem he thinks he should be the only one heard. The question is how much wattage (is that a word) should I use to compete with a guitarist that has a 100watt marshall head and some cab. We play rock, I use a Fender Jazz and we play small clubs and some Large ones rarely. any suggestions are helpfull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Just walk over and unplug his amp while he's noodling away. That should get his attention. HE is a bigger problem than your amp. You may well need more watts, especially if you're gigging, but find a way to tell him he doesn't need all 100 of those watts. What sort of deep psychological trauma did guitarists suffer as children that makes so many of them such attention junkies? Besides, if he's like most guitarists I knew when I was younger, he'll sell the thing in a few years anyway for a nice Boogie, Fender Twin, or Demeter. He'll get tired of lugging the thing around, not to mention getting tired of his bandmates throwing things at him. He might be that one in a thousand guitarists who will eventually need lots of amp for big gigs, but probably not. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 You probably need 400 watts to compete with a 100 watt Marshall. Try to convince him to put his cabinet up on milk crates pointing at his ears, wear earplugs, and get as far away from his side of the stage as possible. Tape the band from the back of the room and see what the mix is like. Then play him the tape. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam 2000 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 lets not forget that your insturment is bigg than his and you can beat him with it. or you can just stop playing with him. or losen one of the input plug or rewrite the numbers on the volume knob. or go 400watts like Jeremyc said which will probably be the most expensive way to go considering all the other nonsence you can do for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhair Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I agree with Jeremyc, as usual. A couple of things here. A hundred watt guitar amp made my Marshall is really loud, I've never played a club where that kind of juice was justified in a guitar amp. A lot of clubs you'll probably be playing will run you direct so think of your own amp as just part of the sound reinforcement scheme. My amp before it was stolen was a biamp Hartke head at 350 W at 8 ohms. I only ran one cabinet out of it, and I never had to go up over 4 or 5. If you're going to up grade you amp then think about that, that you don't want to run it at 7-9 night after night after night. Get a bigger amp that you can push less. This is not like guitar where the tone gets golden around 9 or 10. Also, you don't want to get into the matching volume game. Honestly, I went through many bands were I rarely could hear myself. I'd set my volume at the beginning of rehearsal, watch the guitarists turn up and up and up, and I'd just keep my eyes on the drummer and stand right in front of my amp. When we were rehearsing for actual shows we'd manage to get to a volume where everyone was heard and invariable the band would like what I was playing. If he can tilt back his amp or raise it up that would solve a lot of problems. You'd benefit from the same thing, or walking away from the amp a bit, there is a good chance that the back of your knees "hear" you fine and not the guitarist. That is what I like in some rehearsal rooms where you're playing through a full stack, the speakers are at least up by your scholders. Another thing to do is to tweak eq on your and his amps so that your not stepping on each other so much. check out some comedy I've done: http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/ My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike R. Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Thanks for the replys. He's a really good friend and a pretty good guitarist. The thing is him and I have this musicalbond type thing going, where me and him just sound good (when you can hear me ). He just likes hearing himself over the bass. We're playing in four days and i'm going to give a recorder to a friend to tape us and maybe he'll get the hint to turn down the volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaerty Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Is the volume too loud because he feels he is more important and needs to be the loudest - you have an attitude problem which you have to discuss asap. Is it too loud cos he aint listneing right - like others said - tilt or raise the amp, have him stand about 8-10 feet away from his amp so he can hear (or endure) what everyone else has to, record and playback, have an impartial listener, just tell him he is too loud and its is a real problem. One of the probs of having a rehearsal area where you can make as much noise as you want to is that guitarists decide to make as much noise as they can. If you practice loud you play loud at gigs. If you play small venues then it is an important part of being a professional musician to apply that professionalism to quieter prac sessions to fully prepare for those small rooms. (Well that was how I put it to my band last practice and the guitarists seemed to take it on board) And I gotta say WOW someone stole a hartke! A lot of effort for very little reward Providence over serendipity any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike R. Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 lol, I dont have an attitude problem. It just he turns up his volume mid show, so everyone can hear his "solo". I will be bringing a friend to tape the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Mike R.: The question is how should I compete with a guitarist that has a 100watt marshall head and some cab. any suggestions are helpfullI'm thinking either a hammer or a kick in the groin. Seriously, just tell him to stop. If that doesn't work, next rehearsal where he gets loud, just stop playing. When he asks you why, tell him you couldn't hear yourself anyway, so why bother wasting energy playing. You might want to upgrade your rig. However, competing with a 100 watt Marshall in a small space is nearly impossible unless you have a grenade. 100-watts of tube guitar amp power is probably a lot better suited for your average arena gig than a small club. I dealt with a similar situation in my first band that played out. The jerk just wouldn't ease up, he had to crank his Marshall JCM 900 or whatever to 10-ish at practice and at gigs. Finally, after he turned himself WAY up in the middle of a gig. He had a signal booster pedal AFTER his 2 Tube Screamers. You know, those Marshall's need it, since they're low-gain! Anyhow, I quit (and broke up the band) after the last song but before we actually unloaded the stage. There are a lot of guitarists out there, man. A LOT. What does the drummer think? Actually, answer the next question first. Does the drummer think? If he does think, tell him to stop and concentrate on playing. Maury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Mike R.: It just he turns up his volume mid show, so everyone can hear his "solo". I will be bringing a friend to tape the show. Is he aware that there have been little signal boost stompboxes available for years? You step on it for some extra punch in a solo or heavy section, then step on it again and GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY AGAIN. Maybe you could buy him one for his birthday. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61Pbass Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Just chiming in with my two cents worth. I pretty much concur with the responses that don't involve equipment damage or call for the guitarist's hospitalization. A hundred watt Marshall is overkill for nearly ANY stage if it's turned way up. I have a 45 watt JCM combo w/ a single 12" that generally gets faced to the wall behind plexiglass or put backstage and mic'ed to the p.a. if I need to turn it up for "tone". I had to deal with playing bass in a metal band about 20 yrs. ago w/ a guitarist who used a 100w Marshall half stack (and had no concept of dynamics) and it took two S.V.T. heads w/ two 8X10" cabs to even come close to keeping up. I decided after that stint to NEVER, EVER play the volume war game again.....and I haven't. Later.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneKnife Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Fer gawsh sakes- if you're not using some good hearing protection, then do it today! Jeez, a 50-watt marshall can hurt you. See if you guys can't go shopping for a good quality lower watt job. He can still lug the Marshall to gigs for 'show' but really use the Deluxe or whatever for 'real'. I had an SVT V-9 (1979 mfr. date)and two 8x10" cabs and nobody ever made me turn it up more'n about 1/3 of the way. They KNEW what would happen if they did. So that's my answer. Play softly and carry a huge Ampeg. "We are the Federales... You know, the Mounted Police..." ---"If you're the police, where are your badges?" "Bodges?..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earljam Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 turn your volume off and play air bass and see if he notices- bet he don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike R. Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by getz76: Originally posted by Mike R.: The question is how should I compete with a guitarist that has a 100watt marshall head and some cab. any suggestions are helpfullI'm thinking either a hammer or a kick in the groin. Seriously, just tell him to stop. If that doesn't work, next rehearsal where he gets loud, just stop playing. When he asks you why, tell him you couldn't hear yourself anyway, so why bother wasting energy playing. You might want to upgrade your rig. However, competing with a 100 watt Marshall in a small space is nearly impossible unless you have a grenade. 100-watts of tube guitar amp power is probably a lot better suited for your average arena gig than a small club. I dealt with a similar situation in my first band that played out. The jerk just wouldn't ease up, he had to crank his Marshall JCM 900 or whatever to 10-ish at practice and at gigs. Finally, after he turned himself WAY up in the middle of a gig. He had a signal booster pedal AFTER his 2 Tube Screamers. You know, those Marshall's need it, since they're low-gain! Anyhow, I quit (and broke up the band) after the last song but before we actually unloaded the stage. There are a lot of guitarists out there, man. A LOT. What does the drummer think? Actually, answer the next question first. Does the drummer think? If he does think, tell him to stop and concentrate on playing. MauryThe drummer does'nt think. but what was very startleing yesterday our drummer stopped mid practice and started to freak out on the guitarist becuase he was too loud. (I forgot to add we only played 4 gigs together,but i've played a lot more than 4). Than the next practice he's making him bring a much smaller amp. and that concludes the story of the loud guitarist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Originally posted by Mike R.: The drummer does'nt think. but what was very startleing yesterday our drummer stopped mid practice and started to freak out on the guitarist becuase he was too loud. (I forgot to add we only played 4 gigs together,but i've played a lot more than 4). Than the next practice he's making him bring a much smaller amp. and that concludes the story of the loud guitarist.Nice! Leave it to the drummer to get it done! Sometimes the ol' "freak-out" is the way to go. Maury Spadoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Smith Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I jammed with a guitarist with a 150 watt Marshall head (yes, they do exist), and even turned to 2 he was loud as hell. He wasn't the type that wanted to play louder than everyone, he showed off the capability of the amp and then turned down. Either way, I don't play with loud guitarists, I'll ask them to turn down once if I can't hear myself, if they don't I pack up my shit and leave. Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end. --King Crimson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendmik Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 "see if he notices"..."See if he gets the hint." COming from a guitarist, you should know that guitarists need things spelled out for them. Hints DO NOT WORK. He's gonna need an intervention to realize he's not thie only one in the band. Sure everyone likes to hear them selves just above everyone else. It helps them play better. But he's making playing in a band a fun experience for no one but himself. He needs to get his selfish head out of his ass. And you need to tell him that flat out. Passive/aggresive tactics like hints and innuendo will do nothing but make you even more frustrated and leave him wondering why everyone hates him. Bite the bullet and tell him or walk. Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform. Mark Twain (1835-1910) -------------------- Reporter: "Ah, do you think you could destroy the world?" The Tick: "Ehgad I hope not. That's where I keep all my stuff!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Originally posted by StoneKnife: Jeez, a 50-watt marshall can hurt you. Funny you should say that. The most painfully loud guitarist I ever payed with had a '71 Marshall fifty-watt. "Bleeding ears" doesn't BEGIN to describe the sensation of being shut in a room with that damned thing. But ohhhhhh, did that amp RAWK... Can you believe I hated asking him to turn down? "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Has anyone noticed how the Chili's stage rigs keep growing and growing. John's now using one full stack powered by a Marshall Major (200W I think) for his clean sounds, and another stack with a 100W Marshall head for his overdrive sounds. Didn't he just use Fender Twins once? Consequently Flea's gone from three 800RB amps (300W+100W each) with three 2x10"s and three 2x15"s to three 2001RB amps (1080W each) with three 4x10"s and three 1x15"s. Talk about volume battles! I just hope those Marshall Majors are relatively hard to find, I couldn't bear 200W valve heads becoming the next big thing... Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam 2000 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Marshall Heads are generaly under reated. i got a marshal 30W(which i am gettin ready to sell) and it sounds ore like 60w through a 400w cab. i think that would be plenty big enough for anyone playin at bar. :story time: got a friend who has a little battery powered marshal travel amp. well anyways he is a great sound guy and this band was playin a gig in our church sanctuary and the guitarists amp got messed up some how so he runs to his truck and get the little battery operated amp and mics the thing. and its the one of the funniest things in the world becuse no one can even see it. it looked like there was a microphone goin to nothing but all this sound was coming from something it was pretty awesome. ecept they had to change the batteries half way through the show now that makes 100w amp seem realy ridiculos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Adrian Belew recorded the brilliant album "Mr. Music Head" entirely on two of those little 10-watt Roland practice amps with the twin 8" speakers. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaerty Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Originally posted by Mike R.: lol, I dont have an attitude problem. It just he turns up his volume mid show, so everyone can hear his "solo". I will be bringing a friend to tape the show. Sorry you misunderstood me. What I meant was you had an attitude problem - being his attitude, not yours. You really need to talk to this guy. Providence over serendipity any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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