writing "good" basslines

[shex]

of those that write basslines, how exactly do you write them? do you write with a guitarist?

do you write a bassline and then a guitar line or vice versa?

 

my band is fairly new, so i've only recently started seriously writing songs. but usually i come up with a simple riff on the guitar, and write a bassline along to it. our band plays softish accoustic rock, similar to oasis, but different... i find that with that type of music it's standard that the bass just plays the root of every chord the guitarist plays. but i feel so wasted when i do that. so i usually make basslines that are either arpeggios [that's what it's called when ya pick out the notes of the chord, right?], or kind of all over the place as long as it sounds in key. i can't stand playing simple bass lines live, although i get the feeling that sometimes i might be over playing, and making a line that's too complex for the music. anyone else have this problem?

one example, is when we cover wonderwall, i really love the song, but the bassline of that is just too boring, and i hate playing it.

[dcr]

When is a bass line good? How long is a piece of string?

 

It depends entirely on the song. One of my favorite bass lines is on "Once in a Lifetime" by Talking Heads. It totally makes the song. It also consists of just 2 notes. If it had been 3 notes, the song wouldn't have been as good.

 

Another favorite is on "What's Going On" by Marvin Gaye. It has, shall we say, more than 2 notes. It also totally makes the song.

 

I often find that if I'm not pushing & keep an open mind, the song tells me what I should play. Then I try not to get in the way of that, too much. Sometimes it's 8th-note roots; sometimes it's chromatic 16ths; it's for the song to decide!

 

When I'm pressed to come up with a line, I almost always think rhythmically first--what's the feel, where's the beat, where is an accent called for, etc. Then I start thinking harmonically. It's handy to get a basic riff going--define something--then think about transitions & turnarounds; let fills take care of themselves. FWIW, 99% of the time the lines I make are for songs that already have a defined chord structure.

 

The point is to take first things first. Rhythm; then harmony; define something out of that; then start hooking the pieces together. And be prepared to revise & improvise.

 

You have to understand chords.

[Adamixoye]

Very well put dcr. That process sounds familiar.

 

Understand chords and scales. Understand the rhythm. Know the rules, then you'll know how to use them...how to bend them...how to break them. From there, things should fall into place; at least some things, provided we're talking about writing a bassline underneath a previously existing chord structure.

 

Of course, if you start writing from the bass in the first place, then the sky is the limit, and the guitarist has to basically do the reverse of the process just described...

[JDL]

Hmmmm..my thread might tie into this one...

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by JDL:

Hmmmm..my thread might tie into this one...

Quite possibly...

[NickT]

sheX, shall I tell you why that bass line is boring? Because Guigsy can't play. Oasis are a terrible band.

 

If you want to learn to play throw away your Oasis albums. If you're into that kind of British guitar pop, then you would be better off learning the Beatles back catalogue, the Small Faces as well. Also check out Crosby, Stills and Nash as well as Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young.

 

"Good" basslines are sometimes very simple. However they always combine the groove with an outline of the harmony. There is more to harmony than just roots

[LizzyD]

Originally posted by dcr:

When is a bass line good? How long is a piece of string?...

 

...I often find that if I'm not pushing & keep an open mind, the song tells me what I should play. Then I try not to get in the way of that, too much. Sometimes it's 8th-note roots; sometimes it's chromatic 16ths; it's for the song to decide!...

 

...The point is to take first things first. Rhythm; then harmony; define something out of that; then start hooking the pieces together. And be prepared to revise & improvise.

 

You have to understand chords.

That's basically my process as well. The only thing I can add is that I often get great ideas from the melody, if there is one already. I've worked with some great singers/writers lately, who have a great melodic sense, and "stole" a few things from their lines to use as fills or just little interesting things under the progression. Sometimes I've even based my entire line on their melody. I might take a melodic hook from the chorus and play it somewhere in the verse or the intro. It's something not many people really notice, even the singers! Then they will tell me what a cool bass line I came up with. Of course then I tell them, "well, I got it from you so give yourself a big compliment!"

 

If the song has lyrics, listen to the rhythm of them. If they are well written, then pay attention to the phrasing and try to support it or not get in the way.

 

I also work with a great drummer who inspires me rhythmically, and at some point in the process we will "click" into an idea and it just comes together very naturally.

[Dan South]

As a bassist, you have certain responsibilities to the band. These responsibilities have an order of importance.

 

Responsibility # 1: Good Timing

 

No matter what you play, if your timing is sloppy, your bass lines will annoy listeners and players alike. It would be better if you were not playing AT ALL. No matter what you play, first and foremost, make sure that you play it with accurate timing.

 

Responsibility # 2: Chord Roots

 

Listen to your band play a song or two without you (i.e. no bass). Listen to how thin and lifeless it sounds. Then add your part. You're usually only playing ONE NOTE AT A TIME, but that one note is so important that is makes all of the other notes sound better. The note that you need to play most often, especially at the beginning of a measure or phrase, is the root of the chord. That root is the concrete foundation that holds up the entire musical structure. Make sure that when you improvise of compose bass lines that the root is clear to everyone: to bass players, to other musicians, and especially to the audience.

 

By the way, can the guitarist or the keyboard player have this kind of impact with a single note? Not very often. That's the power of bass.

 

Responsibility # 3 - Groove and Feel

 

Some people confuse groove and feel with good timing, but they're very different. Good timing is almost mechanical. It's either there or it's not. Groove and feel are more subtle. They have to do more with the relative intensity of notes, accenting some notes and playing other notes softly. Groove also comes from the timing of the ENDS of notes, i.e. how long is each note played, i.e. (again), how much space exists between each note. It's amazing how impotant these subtle details are, but they're vital if you want to add life to the notes that you're playing. Listen to bass lines on CD's and notice which notes are accented, which notes are played a little less intensely, which notes are legato (smoothly joined with no time in between), which are staccato (short with lots of time in between), and which are somewhere between legato and staccato. After a while, you'll be able to incorporate these ideas into your own bass lines, and the whole band's "groove" will skyrocket as a result.

 

Responsibility # 4 - Melodic Diversity

 

For many songs, it's nice to have a bass line that acts as a countermelody while it continues to support Responsibilities 1, 2, and 3. This is where your knowledge of chords and scales and theory (passing tones, leading tones, etc.) will be useful. But always keep in mind that Timing, Chord Roots, and Groove and Feel have to be in place first, or your fancy note choices will be musically useless.

 

How do you develop good bass "melodies?" Learn a lot of bass lines from records and analyze what other players are doing. Note particularly the ideas that inspire you and try to work something similar into your playing. This is a necessary first step to developing your own style.

 

Good luck, and always remember to keep your priorities straight.