Getting demo's to major labels?

[Cup]

Hello, well my topic title says it all really. As many of you may know, I'm in a band with quite a large local following. But when it comes to selling our product (ughh I hate putting a dollar sign on everything [thank you Bill Hicks]). I just don't know how to go about it, especially at a low price.

 

I've researched the topic to near exhaustion, joined nationwide artist/song writing consortiums yet all these seem to offer is a monthly news letter, that only put you in contact with indy labels (we once had an artist who nearly signed with "who the Fuuck are they records") etc, etc.

 

Call me big headed (I can take it) but I'm only interested in majors. I've tried to get these adressesss, but apparently you've to buy a book known as the "white book", at £30 this is a little out of my budget. I really work a crumby job, and with allimony etc, I must put my kid before a book whose overall usefullness I'm unsure of.

 

Any of you guys offer any assistance?

 

p.s I know this post seems a little sorry for myself, but rest assurred, I do not write country songs.

 

Thanx. Cup

[Lee Flier]

Well... may I ask why you're only interested in majors?

 

What are your career goals exactly?

[Cup]

Well Lee, to totally contradict my Bill Hicks quote (Geeez I love that guy) I wanna make money. Simply because I believe in my bands music. Hey doesn't every poster!

 

My gripe with independent labels are simple and obvious. I simply look upon them as a stepping stone. Record low budget first L.P, receive no publicity, tour a lot of clubs that are no different from the dives we play know (barr geographical differrences). Then record another, label goes bust, masters locked in some bus stop holding area, band splits, then get a review in some "where are they now" magazine page filler.

 

I've read it so many times....I just wanna be more than another indy casuality.

 

I'm totally aware aroggance oozes from these posts, but it's not without substance.

 

Cup

[Lee Flier]

I just wanna be more than another indy casuality.

Being a major label casualty isn't pretty either.

 

If you want to make money, major labels are not necessarily the way to go either, especially these days.

[doug_hti]

Getting the addresses of the major labels will not help AT ALL. Unsolocited stuff will not help, get through, or be of any use. Your only options are to find a major management company or major entertainment lawyer that believes in you and has all the contacts AND RELATIONSHIPS. This is the reality.

Then, if you get that far, you need to make sure your demo is nice an polished. Put on 4 songs, be ready to supply more.

Right now in this climate, most of the majors have some sort of restrictions imposed on them, in which, they will have to run it up to the top and get approval for everything they want to sign. They are scared to sign anything that is different, but can't sign anything that is the same. Unless your band has a very clear cut marketable niche in the music, I wouldn't bother.

However, if you feel your band is amazing, the songs are amazing, you have a very different sound, and the band is polished in every way, then go for it.

 

My point is, is that major labels are not developing bands or artists now. You gotta be ready to go. You gotta have the hit song, with the rest of the other songs very strong.

 

So if you have any relationships or professional representation, that is your only way.

Another option would be to get your local buzz going and set up a showcase, in which you invite the labels to come down to it. However, if you don't have the cash to pay $50 for a white book, I don't think putting on a $20,000 showcase will be an option either.

 

This is something you have to commit with everything you have to give and more....

[abaguer]

I'm a bit confused about what your goals are as well.

 

If you want to get signed by a major it is going to take someone influential to get your music to the right people.

 

My brother just quit working for probably the biggest record company there is and he was way up there level-wise. The things he would tell me really made me glad I wasn't in the original game anymore. He basically said that the thousands of cds and casettes that get sent to A&R people rarely if ever get listened to UNLESS; 1)someone in the know (e.g. music industry or an A&R person who is looking to make a name for himself and totally loves your stuff AND thinks it will sell) recommends that someone important listen to it, or 2) the material is presented by a pretty important music lawyer or some other music business type. One of the reasons he quit is he is burnt out and he feels there is no development at all put into new artists. If you don't sell XX thousand copies of your first album you are dropped unless you have a very strong, influential figure in your corner.

 

The independents therefore are a safer way to go. Yes the budgets are small and you do tour the same clubs, but rarely will major labels go after an unproven act. The days of record execs walking into the Bitter End, being knocked out by an act and signing them are way over. The business is way too regulated these days for that. That is why the independents assume the role of being a minor-league, if you will, for bands. You put out a cd on their label, tour, get a sizeable following, have more artistic control and create a buzz. When there is a buzz and a following, that's when the majors come sniffing around.

 

You certainly don't have to take my word on it, but I spent 15 years doing originals, was signed to two independents, had development deal with Colombia records, had articles about us in Spin magazine, toured nationally and internationally, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, couldn't get over the "big seller" hump.

 

Now, if your original music is your life and that is what is most important to you. By all means disregard everything above and just go for it, give your best shot and make the best music you can regardless of whether you make money or not.

 

But if you want to make money with your original music these are some of the hurdles awaiting you.

 

As for me, I'm a full time musician but when I turned 30 (ten years ago) I made a reassessment of my music career and decided I was only going to be a sideman and I've been able to make a living at that. I won't make a living like writers who have publishing deals but I enjoy what I'm doing and am making my money.

 

I hope this helps perspective wise, but remember, there is no formula and anything is possible. It is just important to be realistic. Good luck

[The Bear Jew]

When you are ready to deal with major labels, Grasshopper, they will come to you.

 

Until Sony, etc, start knocking on your door, you are best served handling things yourself. Not to burst yer bubble, but major labels will hurt you more often than they will help you if you get involved with them before you're ready. The more you know how to do yourself, the better off you will be. That way you will know more about the ways they're trying to screw you.

 

Believe it or not, things aren't a whole lot different for bands who are on major labels than they are for indie label bands... or even unsigned artists.

 

For example, my band plays with major label acts all the time. Guess what kind of publicity they usually get? Posters sent to the club two weeks before the show. Hmmm... That's exactly what we get, except we do it ourselves. Yeah, we pay for the posters and ship them ourselves, but so do the major label acts. They just pay for them later. They play the same shit-holes we play. Yeah, they have booking agents (who have to get paid via the band) and they also have tour support (which the band also pays back before they see a dime themselves).

 

If you can book your own tours (easy -- just like booking shows at home, just on a larger scale), handle your own promotions (how hard is it to mail out a few posters and make a few phone calls?) and release your own albums (you're already doing it!), you'll be in much the same positon as many young bands on major labels, except you won't be in debt to anyone but yourself. Work on this for a while, develop a following in a larger geographical area, and the labels will come to YOU. Believe it.

 

Basically...

You are better off handling these things yourself until you have the basis to negotiate for a worthwhile deal. Right now, you are prime for a screwing by a label because you're relatively young and relatively unknowledgeable (no offense) about the way they work. Do not fool yourself by thinking that they give a crap about whether or not you're talented or not. They want to see records sold and more potential for record sales. if you can show them that you know the biz, you're already packing people into clubs and selling your CDs like mad, they won't be able to offer you a crap deal because you'll already know what you can do on your own.

 

Also... please don't discount indie labels... they will often pay you better than the majors, treat you nicer and give you more freedom. They'll also pay more attention to you because they have fewer artists on their rosters. Think you could call Sony and the president on the phone right away (even if you're a big-name artist)? Not likely. You might not even be able to get your friggin' A&R rep on the phone. But, call an indie, and the chances are you will be able to get anyone you want on the phone in a jiffy. Their expectations are also lower... sell 10,000 copies of your first CD on a major, and you're basically sunk. Sell 10,000 copies on an indie, and you are a GOD. You'd need to sell at least 80,000 copies very quickly on a major in order to get the same kind of attention. Finally... most indie deals are very mellow -- you do one record with an option to record another. You're not tied up for years with negotiations or tons of fine print.

 

Just some stuff to chew on, buddy.

[Cup]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Plenty of food for thought.

 

First off, I really love making music. It's just recently, I've bought L.P's, seen major label bands etc, and I truly believe my band is more than capable than blowing so many of these frauds away.

 

I also subscribe to the idea that independents give their bands more freedom (one of them being the freedom to starve). Who said that famous quote about "wanting independent freedom but Major label marketing clout"??

 

Anyway, I'll keep posting off demo's and hope to meet a Spector type fan.

 

Thanks in full. Cup

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by CupMcMali:

First off, I really love making music. It's just recently, I've bought L.P's, seen major label bands etc, and I truly believe my band is more than capable than blowing so many of these frauds away.

Well, that's just it. There are a million stories like that. Hundreds of talented bands are passed over in favor of those with less talent but the right look, or because they know the right people, or any number of other reasons having little to do with actual ability. Just because your band might blow away most of what's on the major labels doesn't mean you have a chance in hell of getting signed by a major or, even if you did, whether you'd end up thinking it was a good thing.

 

The fact is, if you're that good, you're better off proving it by building a regional following. If you're packing houses throughout your region, that serves a big notice to the labels. Sending demos to major labels without knowing anyone there and without them having heard of you, is a completely pointless exercise and a waste of time and money.

 

I also subscribe to the idea that independents give their bands more freedom (one of them being the freedom to starve).

Lots of people starve after having been on major labels, too. In fact, lots of them end up in debt and/or in court for years. If you think that once you sign on the dotted line with a major, you're in clover from then on, you're wrong.

 

If you're smart about your career planning, you can in fact keep more of your money as an independent. If you're really good, and you're packing local venues, and you have an indie CD or two under your belt that has sold well even with minimal money invested, labels will take notice of that. And at that point you're in a position to sign a contract on YOUR terms, because you've already proven you're marketable. You won't have to sign your life away.

 

Who said that famous quote about "wanting independent freedom but Major label marketing clout"??

Well then, what you need is not a major label, but a good promotions/marketing person. Someone local who believes in your band and has a little money to invest in marketing you. Start regionally and expand outward from there as you begin to attract more attention.

 

If you can't find somebody who believes in your band enough to invest money or at least time and skill, there is nothing a major label can do for you or would want to do for you. And if you CAN find somebody like that, then when/if the major labels ever come calling, you may or may not even be interested in accepting their services.

[Wally Malone]

The major label will get you in the best studio, get you the best producer, best engineer and in general the best of everything. Oh, and guess what? The best cost the most and the musicians (you) pay for it. That's why groups sell a million records and never see a cent. There are threads here where I discussed the lobbying efforts by the Recording Artists Coalition when working with them of some legislation in California. There's a lot written there regarding what the musicians end up paying for.

 

Wally

[doug_hti]

I know everyone is dogging on the majors, maybe partly because there is a lot of reason to, partly because it's cool, and maybe partly because you haven't been around that world.

But I don't think the indie world is always all it's cracked up to be either. In general or broadly speaking, I've found that there is a pendulum (however it's spelled) of experience and passion. The indies tend to have all the passion, but lack experience to facilitate growth in an efficient way, and can tie a band/artist into a contract that they had no business writing up, leaving a band with so much legal baggage no major professional wants to get near them. The majors have the experience and the systems in place and can facilitate growth (typically), but a A&R person may have 10+ acts they have to worry about. And if your artist development person isn't passionate or is conflicting with your management, etc. You are screwed and your project will find it's way through the template.

 

And I wouldn't point the finger always at the label when the bands are broke at the end of the deal. Most deals for a new band will be in the neighborhood of $500k-$800k, which covers recording and the artist advance.

 

The business management of the artist doesn't always do a good job at communicating that this money will run out. They end up renting a huge house at $10k a month, $3k a month for car leases, and a lifestyle that will run any budget to the ground. Banks will give them big loans when they can tie it into their record royalties, publishing royalties and most commonly(if they are writers) their ASCAP/BMI performance royalties. At the end they get dropped and they are so screwed and broke.

 

But many times when an artist or band gets dropped. they are out on top with the advance in the order of a few hundred k's. That they do not have to pay back directly. You may have a project tied to those advances that you will never see royalties from, but come on, it's nothing to complain about too much.

 

The problems start when you are stuck on a label for 5 albums and not selling over 750k. That's where the larger budgets start to hurt and your advances shrink. Then you tie in all the cross collaterization from project to project, your crappy publishing deal from the sister company that is only paying 3/4 rate of your publishing royalties on controlled comps, and yet the publishing caps out on 10 songs, in which you put 13 songs on the album and only wrote 5. Yeah, that's where you're are getting screwed.

 

Like it's been said over and over. The biggest problem with the labels is that thye are NOT developing artists at all. They are very scared to take any chances. Then they will sign someone after they have had success (especially large publishing deals), there will be a bidding war and then next option for an ungodly amount of money comes around and the second album flops...label/publisher loses money, start over process once again.

 

Just remember, that the A&R people and publishers are normal, in that they are scared of losing their job, like most anyone else. It's not the type of climate where you can make some mistakes, take risks, and get fired and be picked up by someone the next week.

 

On a good note, it seems that there has been an attempt for some fairly major restructuring with majors to put more creative people at the top. EMI has recently done this with Phil Q.

 

And the whole bit that someone said that the labels will find you....um, I don't think so. The only way they will find you is if someone is already REALLY interested in you.

Yes it really matters who you know, who your management is, etc. But that's not the only equation. Im sure there are many people that may have more talent than many acts out there, but many times, they lack the drive and determination and hard work, long hours, and the originality that is still marketable.

 

It's a big big package that goes way beyond the stereotyped reasoning of "good looks".

 

There are positives and negatives to both.

in today's world, I think the easiest way to penetrate the major market, is to get an indie company that has a great attitude and is not against the majors, but very willing to cooperate with them if they get attention and will have reasonable contract terms, in which they can buy the masters and work with what they can and not tie down the artists, but find a way for the indie, major, and artist to all prosper from the connection.

 

But the fact still stands that more people than you and your band have to be thinking "we can blow away these bands on the majors". People gotta love you locally. However, I (personally) don't think getting a local following is as important as some people like to think. I think it's a good temp gauge of the reality, but if you truly have a different sound like no one else and it's good, you can get attention before the following. Having the following comes more into play when you DON't have THAT sound...and you are feeding off of the energies in the band. But your act has to be tight.

 

Any way, good luck again....

[Lee Flier]

doug,

 

You make a lot of good points, and I'm certainly not trying to say that the indie world is perfect either. As you say, it's a lesser of evils situation really. I also agree that, if you're trying to deal with the status quo in the industry, the best thing is to find an indie label who isn't hostile to the majors.

 

It's certainly true, too, that a label can help you develop a following through getting you lots more exposure than you have locally. I should have brought this up in fact, because the local clubs nowadays are really hurting and a lot of people won't take a chance on going to see a new original band. It takes a lot to simply be heard in the first place these days, and a major label can certainly get the public's attention.

 

BUT... I think the labels want too much for what they do, especially as you say because they've gotten too afraid to take risks and develop artists. I think artists would do better to hire independent promoters to work for them for a percentage, and keep the creative control, the rights to their recordings, and the responsibility for seeing where the money goes. It's true that a lot of artists blow their label budgets and advances on stupid stuff, but it's also true that labels spend ungodly amounts of money that is recoupable without the band ever knowing. There are lots of million selling albums that mysteriously never recoup.

 

Bottom line, major labels are not conducive to good music right now and artists are still too naive to call them out on most of it. About the only saving grace is that popular music sucks so bad right now that even the general public seems to realize it, and the biz will have to change. That's encouraging that some of the labels are trying to get more creative people involved - it's been several years since I've been around any of them so I haven't kept up - and I also see more majors picking up distribution of indie records while the artist maintains ownership and control. Also a good thing.

 

The main point that needs to be made to CupMcMali though, is that banging on the doors of major labels asking them to sign you, is probably not the smartest thing you could do to get your career going.

[clatteramy]

Originally posted by Wally Malone:

The major label will get you in the best studio, get you the best producer, best engineer and in general the best of everything. Oh, and guess what? The best cost the most and the musicians (you) pay for it. That's why groups sell a million records and never see a cent. There are threads here where I discussed the lobbying efforts by the Recording Artists Coalition when working with them of some legislation in California. There's a lot written there regarding what the musicians end up paying for.

Wally

Something else to consider along these lines is that everything and everyone cost more BECAUSE you're on a major label. If you look into anything -- studio rates, magazine advertising, etc. -- there is always a much cheaper rate for unsigned bands. So, if you're going to end up paying for it yourself whether it's immediately out-of-pocket or eventually paying back a major label, it makes more sense to get the financing early on (or charge up your credit cards) and do as much as you can when you're unsigned. This also will make you more attractive to the majors down the road, because you have already shown your drive and determination by putting your own money on the line rather than waiting for someone else to do it.

[doug_hti]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

doug,

 

I should have brought this up in fact, because the local clubs nowadays are really hurting and a lot of people won't take a chance on going to see a new original band. Yes, and I personally think original bands are working hard enough or focused enough in general. I don't know if reality shows screw this up or people just being too comfortable with nothing to lose if they don't get a deal, but the discipline beyond a rock star just isn't there.

 

I think artists would do better to hire independent promoters to work for them for a percentage

Great idea, but it costs so much money to hire indi promoters. A radio team of 3-4 pushing one song will cost a couple hundred k's.

 

About the only saving grace is that popular music sucks so bad right now that even the general public seems to realize it, and the biz will have to change.

 

EXACTLY!!!!, the public DOES realise it, and a couple majors ARE looking for new unique stuff. They still want the "hit" song(s), but they want the new stuff, so yes it's cool. But still takes time to funnel through, in a time, where things change over night.

[Cup]

Wow! Part of my trouble is that I sometimes forget to think things all the way through. Part of the solution is that I come here for good advice!

 

All the answers are great, pity they lead to more questions....I take it from the anti major vibes, some of you have had nasty experiences?

 

Cheers, Cup

[Teahead]

I had a very nasty experience once with a major.

I've prefered a minor ever since.

Please read it again if you're thinking me sick.

[Bisgit]

In My experience it is best to go Indy or sign with a 2nd tier label in the beginning. They give you a little more freedom, plus a small amount of financial support, when you out grow them, majors start looking and then you have a little clout. But I do agree that Majors dont want artist development anymore, they want foolproof product. I say, get a loan and do it yourself. I know alot of Artists that have signed to major labels and sink into obscurity. Labels know that only 5 percent of their roster makes a profit, so they bank on a sure thing. Brittney anyone?

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by CupMcMali:

All the answers are great, pity they lead to more questions....I take it from the anti major vibes, some of you have had nasty experiences?

Yes... although, being from L.A. and having started out very young, I was fortunate to be able to learn from observing other people's mistakes before making too many of my own.

[The Bear Jew]

Same here... I saw quite a few of my friends shackled to lousy deals with majors... they wound up in situations where their music was "shelved" for ages while the band died from inactivity and stagnancy because they couldn't play, tour or record without the label's OK... Or they were under-promoted or under-developed and ignored due to intra-label politics... Some were signed because the label just needed to offload some cash before tax time as write-offs... still others were signed to awful "memo deals" that tied with the label legally and didn't allow them to do anything with anyone else, either...

 

There are just SO many ways for the majors to screw you. One of the best things about indies is that they actually sign you because they like your music, and they think they can sell it. There's no "shelving" because they WANT to put music out, not keep it hidden...

[Cup]

Cheers for all the friendly advice. I guess when I think of majors, I think of success. Failure on an Indy label seems less taxing (ohh, that pun hurt) than failure on a major.

 

For anyone interested, an exciting new developement has came our way. My lil brother (guitarist in the band) bumped into a guy at a comedy club night, who's heard our demo, is impressed and wants to record an L.P with us. The guy has an 8 track and a mixing desk.

 

It's all early doors so far, the guy is young, unproven etc, but he has the gear, isn't money motivated (yeah, right!) and blinded my brother with his knowledge of all things technical....

 

....He's coming to record us at rehearsal in a week or so. I'll tell all, when all happens.

 

Cup. Cheers....still a monkey, still in heaven

[StoneKnife]

What a goldmine of a thread.

 

About your new aquaintence with the recording gear- IMHO it'd be not only OK, but a pretty good indication if he were motivated by money~~~ because behind that motivation could be ambition, and ambition can drive you all to the bank. Wearing gold-plated diapers.

 

I mean, recording gear is not cheap, and gawd knows many of us wasted too much time with altruistic people on the fringes of the biz who were not only not interested in money, but also not interested in responsibility, hard work, achievement or progress- They were there to hang in the scene and look important. Woo hoo.

 

Give me an ambitious, hungry guy over a hippi-dippi one any day. :-) Thanks for starting this thread. It was an excellent read and another affirmation of the high calibre of folks hanging out here.

[lrbreez]

First if you have a good local following make a CD and sell it. As you following and CD sales go up the major labels will find out. That's how Prince did it. He sold 10,000 records in the Minneapolis area. The labels heard about it and signed him.

 

Get yourself known and sell CDs in a 25-mile radius. Then you may have to expand to a 50-mile radius. The labels figure if you can do that then you have what it taks.

Buddy

[PETE_COMBS]

It's according what kind of music you play. But going through small labels are good to,small labels are tyed in with the major,it's like this you cant ride the big bike until you can ride without tranning wheels, but in some cases that does'nt matter.If you play metal or rock try buying metal edge or metal mania for record label address. Or try any local shows. there's a small venue down were I live called the Appalshop,small labels pick bands up there and then you see them headlining with major bands and in metal mania ...etc.