I can't sing and play at the same time, and I hate that!

[Connie Z]

I am getting really frustrated with myself.

 

In our band, there are four players. We each take a pretty even number of songs (except the new guy, who is just getting his feet wet as a singer). On most of the songs I sing, I either have to hand-off my bass, or play soooo simply that I am basically playing root notes or some simple arpeggios.

 

I don't mind handing off the bass, because I love the way my bandmates play, but on some songs, they need to be playing their own instruments.

 

I have tried and tried to "just practice a lot" and get better, but I don't. Either my playing sounds stilted or my singing sounds stilted, or I am completely out of time.

 

When I sing, I am usually an "animated" singer, in that I like to use my hands and move around a bit and be "entertaining!" So, when I play and sing, and become really stilted, I feel that it shows and makes the song BORING. I can still use my eyes and facial expressions, but I am concentrating so much on doing both playing and singing, that it is tough.

 

There are a couple of songs that I do both on, that come out fine, because the singing matches the bass playing, but not many. Any song that has a "swing style apreggio" or a "double note apreggio" is a killer for me to sing with.

 

This is a problem too, because I really should be contributing more as a background singer, which I can almost never do, if the song has a cool bassline.

 

Is there a particular excercise that anyone knows of that can help me with this?

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

... Connie Z

[Tom Capasso]

Sorry I can't offer any particular regimen to help. All I can offer (which you already know) is to be sure you can do each part well on it's own, then do it in front of a mirror.

 

You may want to look at concert videos (does your library have any?) to look for ways to express yourself physically while singing and playing. You're pretty much stuck with shoulder/wave the bass moves. Would having a wireless headphone style microphone help free you up a bit (at least you could walk around a little)?

 

I spent most of my "band" time singing backgrounds. I never had too much trouble with playing and singing like that (yeah, there was that one bad note in '79 ). Singing lead took a lot of work for me - it was quite a while before I felt I could deliver (and even then it's limited).

 

Look on the bright side. You sound confident about your singing, and I'm guessing you can put a song across. The ability to do both will come soon (this is where Sweet Wille says "be patient, grasshopper"). I struggle with most songs I have to sing before I strap on a bass.....

 

Tom

[Phoney McRing Ring]

i know exactly what you mean. I too am having trouble with the whole singing, playing thing. IN my band we have a female singer, i sing backing vocals if needed and we sound great but my bass playing has to so simplistic its not even funny. We were playing Can't Stop by the Chilis the other day and as you may have heard its got a pretty ferocious, funky riff and i was trying to imitate John's high pitched harmonies while keeping this riff going and the whole song fell apart. Sorry i don't have any exercises for you i just wanted to let you know you were not alone. Make you wonder how people like Geddy Lee does it.

[The Bear Jew]

Connie...

This sounds stupid... but it really DOES come down to playing the parts over and over until your muscle memory takes over. Then, when you can play your parts without having to think about them, you should be able to talk, run around, dance or yes, even sing over them. It comes down to repetition. The more you do it, the better you'll get at it.

 

My bands go through this all the time when we're writing stuff. Backing vocals that fall in weird places are a pain in the ass, but if they sound cool, we just practice those parts until we get them right. Believe me, we sound INCREDIBLY stupid while we work on this stuff... we usually have to stop pretty often because we're laughing so hard. Eventually, we get it.

[Mike H.]

The only thing I can recommend is the "practice, practice, practice" thing. I've tried several times, and am still VERY limited as to my singing/playing at the same time. Some people are just able to split their minds better I guess.

[clatteramy]

+1 for the muscle memory. I sing and play bass in a two-piece band -- the other member is the drummer -- so not only do I have to pull off the playing but I totally understand the part about wanting to look interesting on stage. It's really hard since my drummer is stuck at his drumset and I'm stuck at the microphone a lot! Basically my approach is to learn the bass part really well first. Then I get the vocals memorized, and while I'm playing the bass part I'll think the vocal part in my head. As that becomes more comfortable I'll put the two together. Sometimes humming the melody first helps before trying to remember the words. Some songs are definitely more challenging than others!

 

There will probably be a time when everything will just click all of a sudden and playing and singing will become second nature. Hang in there! You can do it!

[Melanie]

I uesd to totally suck at singing with the bass. I've been practicing for over a year, and I got pretty good. So just give the practice thing another chance, it will eventually get you somewhere. Good luck!

[JBFLA]

I think clatteramy is right on the money...

 

The only thing that works for me is to have either the bass part or the vocal part become a matter of reflex/muscle memory. As long as one part is on autopilot, the other can be dealt with. For me - I listen to/sing along with the vocal part in my car so I can make sure the bass part is my focus later. If the song don't groove, nobody cares what the vocal's like...if the vocal part strays, chalk it up to "artistic license" hehe!

 

Best of Luck!

clatteramy - nice website, I enjoyed that! If you're ever in S FLA, let us/me know!

JBFLA

[Sylver]

I like the humming the vocal idea while playing, but another thing to practice is talking through the vocal part(no melody) while playing the bass parts. Once you have the rhythms down, then try adding the melody.

[davich]

more support for practice makes perfect.

[abaguer]

What CMDM said. I have to do the same and just play the line over and over and over.

 

One really good exercise is to play root on 1 and 5th on the and of 2 to feel that in between point in the bar and sing over it. Once you get that down, play the "Under the Boardwalk" riff root on 1, major or minor third on and of 2 and fifth on 4. I've found that getting independence on that type of feel isn't very difficult to cop and goes a long way towards getting independence happening.

[Prague]

Try playing a simple scale up and down. But, play the bass on the downbeat and sing the offbeat. Now reverse. Now do them faster. It's a callistenic type thing, but who knows.

[Sunburn In Cyprus]

I was always wondering how people like Sting manage it to sing and play complex lines at the same time... No way, I tried and tried but I can't...

 

But what's interesting: I can sing along when I play an instrument which with I'm not very familiar with (e.g. guitar or drums), it only doesn't work when playing bass (my real instrument)....

 

So I guess that I give too much attention to my playing, except on instruments I just play for fun....

 

- Ulli -

[Mike Dawson]

I think muscle memory is a good place to start. You said you can play simple bass lines and sing at the same time. What I would do is once I have that simple part down, either make the bass part slightly harder or try a slightly harder song until you can sing and play that at the same time and build your skills up gradually. I know I can usually listen to a song a few times then play and sing some arrangement of it at the same time, so obviously that can't be attributed to muscle memory. So I'd think it's a good place to start, but not the ultimate goal. Also, you seem to really like singing without playing. If I were you I might consider finding someone to cover my bass parts and just stick to singing. Just my 3 am 2 cents.

[Ninja]

You have only to practice it, even if it's hard, because if you like the song you're playing, I think it's very satisfactory.

I don't really know how I can do it, but it seems like my mind is split up in two.

Obviously I still commit a few errors, but if you try to keep the bass part simple, you'll find a way to make it harder.

I used to sing and play in a Deep Purple tribute band, and that gave me many clues on how to handle this situation. Now I'm mainly involved with background vocals and that's a piece of cake to me.

Maybe you can try to play and memorize the bass part by splitting the song into different parts, and then start singing over those.

 

Peace,

Fab.

[Connie Z]

Great information you are all giving me! I am feeling quite enthused at the moment for two reason:

 

1. I am not alone

2. There is hope!

 

Hearing that practice can probably really help me, I am going to continue on this route and let my bandmates know what I am doing, and ask them to bear with me on some of the songs while I work on them.

 

Normally, I try during rehearsal once, and if I can't get it, I immediately give up. Then I try at home, but give up there too eventually.

 

Now I shall move the bar up a few notches on giving up, and give myself more time.

 

AND , I thank you all for the suggestions for different excercises to try. The one that looks the best for me is the "learn each part independently and then practice them together," type of thing. But I shall try each suggestion!

 

The "Under The Boardwalk" reference is one that hits home, because this past Wednesday I handed-off my bass because there was NO WAY I could sing that one and play. We just added it to our dance set. So, that will be the first one I try to really work on. (Although my bandmate plays it really really well, so I may have to leave him with the task!) Maybe we can work out some kind of two-bass approach! (Just kidding)

 

I'll report back on my progress as time goes on!

 

Thanks to everyone for the help and supportive responses.

 

... Connie Z

[The Bear Jew]

There ya go, Connie...

Don't give up so easily. Your bandmates are just gonna have to deal with hearing you screw up one part or the other a few times before you get it right. Some folks here may not agree, but I think it's best to practice this stuff at rehearsals so you can really hear what everything sounds like together. A lot of folks think they're nailing vocals & basslines when they're practicing by themselves, but when they play at full volume with the rest of the band, strange errors pop up because they're not used to playing & singing with the whole band... not to mention that the rest of the band often depends on the bassist to be really solid, so they might screw up because they're listening too hard...

 

So, yeah... try practicing this stuff at rehearsals. At the very least, you'll all be laughing.. because it can sound pretty funny.

[ibescotty]

Not much more for me to add here Connie. I make sure I memorize the song inside and out before I try it and that helps. I still have to cheat sometimes and simplify the song a little to pull it off. If the vocals are really emotional and slamming I'd rather focus on that. I'll usually have the keyboards cover me. I've noticed that over time that happens less and less. Practice makes perfect!!

 

We can walk and chew gum at the same time but it takes a little training.

 

Currently I'm working on Limelight for the 4th set!! YIKES!! I'll be cheating a whole lot in the beginning...

[Ren.]

I couldn't sing and play at the same time, 'till I really was force to do so. There was this cover concert I was doing with a band but the singer quit like 5 days before the concert

 

So I kinda forced myself to learn how to play and sing. And I did it, the down side is, I payed more attention to sing right than to play right and my playing was limited that time. But with practice, I think I can get better at it.

 

And yes, singin' and bass playing is hard!

[Bob Gollihur]

practice.

 

I think that's the best course of action, at least it was for me. Also, once I became more comfortable with my voice, and confident in controlling it, it became easy to do both at once. This may or may not be the key for you, since when you don't have to concentrate on one activity more than the other, you can share control equally between them.

 

It's just unfortunate that I don't my voice any more. I miss it.

[ClarkW]

I noticed that it was a lot easier for me to sing and play on a song where I had the lyrics DOWN PAT. Usually, this meant a song that I had written myself, so I didn't even have to think about the lyrics. But we covered All Along the Watchtower once upon a time, and I had to write the words on a 3"x5" card that I carried with me all the time for about two weeks, memorizing all the words perfectly, and going over the song in my head a thousand times. It made things a bit easier, because you don't even have to think about the lyrics.

[jeremy c]

Singing while playing bass is harder than singing while playing drums, piano, or guitar.

 

It's easier than singing while playing flute, trumpet, or sax.

 

Many people have said you need to be able to play the bass automatically. Try playing your bass parts while reading the paper or having a conversation with someone. If you can't do that, practice some more.

 

I find it really, really helps to "map out" the interaction of the bass part and the vocal. I will often write them both out. Then I check to see what vocal notes happen at the same time as bass notes and what vocal notes happen in between bass notes.

 

You don't have to be able to write to do this, you just have to be able to count.

 

The parts where the vocal notes are in between the bass notes are the hardest. Practice them slowly, over and over.

 

One of the hardest songs for me to sing is "I saw her standing there" by the Beatles. You have to sing "Ooh" ahead of the beat and heat the bass note on the beat.

 

If you are going to leave something out, or simplify it, it has to be from the bass part.

 

It goes against all our instincts to leave something out of the bass part, but it's a lot more noticeable to the audience if you leave out a word or phrase from the vocal.

[ibescotty]

Jeremy's spot on as usual.

 

 

I usually write the bass notes all over my lyric sheets while I'm learning the song. This helps me to know how the two interact.

[Connie Z]

I feel so motivated! I also feel like a giant weight has been lifted from my shoulders! I've never just thought about learning the lyrics seperately from the notes before. It is so Freeing!

 

My poor mind was boggled with learning it all at once. It seems so much more doable to learn things seperately.

 

Adding the notes to the lead sheet is bound to help me too. Right now all of my notations are related to when to walk up or down and stuff like that. I have to write everything down usually, so it's not a problem for me to see scribbles all over the place!

 

Thanks again!

... Connie Z

[Belazaras]

Hi, I've done the same question few months ago, and now I can sing some stuff.

The RULE it's try to hear both: the bass and your voice.

Start beating the strings with your palm wile you sing (no pitch involved), if the bass line it's in contratempo. If you have still troubles, take a little portion of the song and try it making a loop.

When you have THE TIME in your mind, you can add the pitch.

Try simple songs of The Police

[takeout]

Not that I'm an expert on it or anything, but I have had to do quite a bit of backups from time to time. The aforementioned "learn each part, then combine" approach applies, but if you're pressed for time...

 

*note: I realize this may be heresy to say on a bass guitar forum, but...

 

When in doubt, dumb down the bass part. The crowd is almost always more focused on vocal interplay anyway, with the rhythm section pulse being more of a subliminal undercurrent. If you derail the undercurrent, all of a sudden it ain't so subliminal anymore (and not in a good way). As the comfort level increases (and it will, over time), you can start stretching out the bass a little bit.

[rhrocker]

Connie, at least y ou can sing! My voice isn't that great. I keep wondering if there's some sort of voice synth out on the market, so help smooth over rough voices a little. Is there that anyone knows of?

[ibescotty]

Cher and Kid Rock used one but do you really want to go there?

[jeremy c]

There is pitch correction software and hardware out there. All your favorite pop stars use it.

 

Antares Pitch Correction

[Tom Capasso]

Connie - I had no idea you were trying to do it all at once. Sure - at rehearsal somebody calls a tune that you sorta know, so you give it a try. When you go home, that's when you study things separately first, then put it together.

 

I understand the logic about dumbing down the bass part. First, if you do change the bass part, consider going back to it later as your skills with the song increase. You may find a way to do what you couldn't do before. Second, don't completely write off dumbing down the vocals. It sounds like the music your band does is the kind of music everyone sings along with. That makes it hard to change it. But keep your eyes open for spots where the bass part is tough, and a slight rhythm change in the vocals will do no harm. I found such a spot in an Allman Brothers tune that saved me from a complete wipeout.

 

Keep Going !!

 

Tom