.......PlexiGlass housing.......

[Metal_Boy16]

So the band played its first actual show. I'm 14, so it was a middle school talent show. We did good. I later asked one of the judges (my band teacher) what improvements we should make next time. She said turn up the vocals and tell the drummer not to play so loud. I've told our drummer this many times before. He'll act like he's playing quieter, but he's not. How can I get him to play a softer? Even when we practice in the little basement he hits his drums as hard as he can, I swear. And since I'm playing out of a 100 watt combo and my guitarist is too, we have to turn it up way too loud. Then the vocals die and all we can hear is a crappy mix with a lot of drums, still!

[BenLoy]

He needs to take lessons from someone who knows what they're doing.

 

Drums are inherently loud, and if you're playing rock, you should be prepared to either get bigger amps or play with a drum machine...

 

But a drummer SHOULD know how to limit his volume through technique. If he can't control his dynamics, he should take some lessons to learn how. Besides...he'll also learn how he can get the loudest sounds by NOT hitting hard!

 

This is all assuming you can get him to listen to you without getting pissed off, of course.

[...]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

This is all assuming you can get him to listen to you without getting pissed off, of course.

Oh, THAT'LL happen....

[davebrownbass]

Didya ever see the Andy Griffith Show the time Barney wanted to sing the solo, but he sounded really bad? And he got his feelings hurt every time they suggested some other guy sing the solo.

 

The way Andy settled that was to give Barney a Mic. And he told Barney that the mic was "real sensitive" and Barney only had to whisper. And they hooked up the live mic to the other singer, and when Barney sang, he heard that rich voice coming out.

 

You know, people love to play music...but they are often insecure. Hell, I still get insecure. And if you criticize some aspect of their playing, they can't handle it.

 

Other people begin to believe the music is about them, their talent, their tone. And if you criticize some aspect of their playing, in their heart they believe you don't know what you are talking about.

 

What you need is someone the drummer really trusts, has respect for, to act as producer. Drums can be played at any volume level; drummers simply need to learn what is appropriate.

 

In my church praise band, the drummer sits behind a shell for a 4 piece band, and EVERY DRUM IS Mic'd. Wow...that'd give your young rocker a thrill...but our drummer prefers taste over volume, and the mics are so the sound guy can tune them to the room. We regularily get visitors come up and tell us how great we are, and how amazing it is that the drums aren't too loud.

 

Go Figure.

[saxofunk]

Originally posted by davebrownbass:

In my church praise band, the drummer sits behind a shell for a 4 piece band, and EVERY DRUM IS Mic'd. Wow...that'd give your young rocker a thrill...but our drummer prefers taste over volume, and the mics are so the sound guy can tune them to the room.

Same deal in our worship band, with some modification. We use acoustic snare and bass with electronic toms. The bass triggers the same module as the toms, the snare is true acoustic with a mic. Everything is behind a 6' plexi shell to keep the snare & cymbals tolerable.

 

At a Wynton Marsalis clinic many years ago he made a comment about how hard it is to find a quiet drummer. Quiet means one thing to a jazz trio, quite a different thing to a rock band - but he made a point that the drummer needs to fit in the mix and it can be achieved with good techique. Then there was a drummer I once worked with who's warm up was playing for 5 minutes at 115%. "Loud" does not mean "Skilled"

 

How many drummers does it take to tighten a snare lug? One. He holds the drum key and the world revolves around him.

[fantasticsound]

Even a loud drummer needs to gain the common sense to play to the room.

 

When I mixed Mink last year in the Persian Gulf, one of our gigs was the Marine house in Qatar. These guys guard the embassy, and at that time there was little or no need for Marines outside this small detail. They lived in a large house that kinda resembled a fraternity house. We played in a medium sized room that also had a bar in it. The drummer in this band is a "hit it a hard as I can" kind of player, but he recognized this was a room where he'd have to back way off if he expected anyone to hear the vocalist and other instruments without blowing everyone's ears out.

 

Your drummer must learn this now. Or, you may need to find someone more professional for the group.

[ClarkW]

My sig line is an actual exchange I had with the young drummer of a band I was in for a short time. In another band, we had a drummer who always played too loud, and one of the worst days of my life was when he showed up, jubilant that he had just purchased a double bass pedal. That rehearsal just plain hurt!

 

We replaced that guy with Donny Osmond's oldest son, Don. He doesn't play with any of the touring Osmonds or anything, but he turned out to be an incredibly good drummer, if only for one reason: He played about a quarter as many notes as the loud guy.

 

Of course, he played them quieter, too. But the monumental change was that Don's philosophy was "Less is More." Suddenly, I could actually play bass fills in the song. Previously, it had been an exercise in frustration because the old drummer was putting in a fill at the end of every phrase, and sometimes every other measure. We picked up a lead guitarist and the first thing he remarked when he played with the band was "Wow, it's like I can put a note wherever I want to, because the drums are in their space, the bass is in its space, the rhythm guitar is in its space, and the vocals are in theirs. I don't have to fight for air time!"

 

Perhaps, aside from the fact that your young drummer might be punching holes in the drum heads, he might also be playing too many notes, giving the added effect that he's way too loud. Try suggesting that he play in cut time for a song or two, if it fits the song, or maybe playing half as many cymbal hits, or use the toms more sparingly. That way, you're not so much criticizing his technique as you are "trying to find what's best for the song." Then, if he's playing with the thought of "I'll play fewer notes" then maybe, just maybe, he might also play them quieter.

 

This sort of problem can occur with any component of the band (except maybe the dude playing the egg shakers), but I've found it's particularly difficult for drummers to overcome because with most setups, the only volume knob they have is muscular.

[The Bear Jew]

Dynamic control is really important for drummers.

 

The drummer I play with (I'm in three bands with him right now!) knows about this. In our hardcore band, he plays totally balls out and heavy, because that's what the music requires. In our Brit-Pop band, he lays back a bit and does things like turn off his snares for effect, and sometimes he uses those wacky "rods" instead of drumsticks. In our "stoner" band, he does a combination of the first and second approaches... sort of a hardcore/jazz/swing thing. He does the right thing for each project because he listens to the rest of the band and isn't out for personal glory -- he wants the whole thing to sound good.

 

The keys to this whole volume thing are maturity and taste. All musicians need to remember that the best music is created when the players know the entire musical arrangement is greater than the sum of its individual parts. In other words, tell the drummer, "It's not about YOU, douchebag. Lay off a little."

[Metal_Boy16]

I agree with all of you. But, he doesn't hit hard for fame, he hits hard cause he's "pumped". He hits hard cause of his adrenaline. I get that to, so does our guitarist/vocals, but we don't play louder. I think he needs to be "calmed", if you know what I mean.

By the way it's a 3 piece. The guitarist sings, just incase anyone wondered.

[The Fonz]

nah, he hits hard because he's new. he needs to take some lessons and learn how to be a more all around player. once that happens then he'll be able to play more quietly. it's just like playing bass: young, inexperienced players tend to play harder, break more strings, rip up their fingers more than experienced players. then you learn to lay off and you are able to play a greater range of stuff.

 

basically just be patient and let the kid learn his instrument. there's no huge need to play gigs just yet. i'm of the opinion that you should only be playing out when you're presentable asa group. if you're still too new to your instrument then you need to relax and not worry about playing out too much until oyu have a better grasp of it.

 

patience grasshopper. you are only 14, you have TONS of gigging ahead of you: there's no need to stress about it right now. hell, i'm 28 and i most of the guys on this site will call me a youngster with tons of music ahead of me. besides, a lot of clubs legally CAN'T book you yet because you're a minor. it sucks and it killed me when i was in high school, but overall it forced me to sit home and woodshed until i was ready to play out in a more public setting.

 

i'm sure i missed something but hey, i'm just babbling anyway.