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the beatles


shex

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i've really only been listening to mainstream music up untill about a year ago... since then i've been discovering all sorts of "underground" forms of metal, and now [thanks to some new friends at school] im looking to some old classic rock music...

the last album i bought was the wall by pink floyd, and that's a killer album! prior to that i bought mystery tour and revolver by the beatles... i've also been listening to sgt peppers and the white album, and abbey road to some extent.

just wondering what you guys think of the beatles? not so much about the bass, but the music in general. i didn't like sgt pep much at all, but love revolver, mystery tour, white album, abbey road [in that order].

oh and i also got the DVD of mystery tour cause it was on sale for 10 bucks... it's pretty appauling... hehe

- roses on your breath but graveyards on your soul -
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...don't know what could possibly be more "mainstream" than the Fab 4. Even with so many influences from other artists (which they always readily acknowledged), like them or not it's almost impossible to overrate their impact on pop music.

As far as bass parts are concerned, though - as happens with many people, the great melodies can distract you from the very distinctive & competent instrumental work going on within the tracks. Allow me to draw your attention to just 3 songs from Sgt. Pepper's (especially since so far this album hasn't made much of an impression on you): "Fixing a Hole", "Lovely Rita", & especially "Gettting Better". :love:

 

(p.s. Also check out bass parts on the "Paperback Writer" and "Rain" singles. Not to mention PM's impeccably musical bass work on George's "Something"?) :thu:

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Good to see you're getting into The Beatles! :thu:

 

If you like "Revolver", get "Rubber Soul" (their album right before "Revolver".) That album along w/ Revolver were the turning points of pop music (not coincidentally it was also about the time they started experimenting w/ hallucinogens.) "Norwegian Wood", "Nowhere Man", and especially "In My Life" are 3 of my fave Beatles songs, and the entire album is great front to back. (trivia notes: "Nowhere Man" is the first Beatles song not about love, "Norwegian Wood" was the first use of a sitar in pop music, and "In my life" features a rare (first?) harpsichord solo in pop music.)

 

As for Sgt. Peppers, I know what you're saying. As much acclaim as it receives, I've never enjoyed it quite as much as the other post-Rubber Soul albums (barring "Let it Be".) But check out "Lovely Rita" as well as the others mentioned above, great bass lines.

 

And I always wondered why "Magical Mystery Tour" is never considered one of their best, definitely one of my faves.

 

"Let it Be" (recorded between the "White Album" and "Abbey Road") is pretty good, not up to the level of the others but not bad. "Two of us" and "I've got a feeling" have always been favorites of mine. It's too bad Phil Spector produced it instead of George Martin.

 

But no matter what albums you get, ya can't really go wrong.

Ah, nice marmot.
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In terms of experimentation both with composition & technology, quality of writing & performance, & being just plain interesting, the Beatles DEFINITELY set a high-water mark for popular music, & in fact they still do. Also, the more you pay attention to McCartney, the more you'll appreciate his playing, & with some effort you can learn a ton. I recommend transcribing as much of his stuff as you can, & I agree that Sgt. Pepper's is one of the best places to start.

 

I'm especially interested, though, in your interest in Pink Floyd. "The Wall" is a good album, but it's never been one of my favorites of theirs; I'm not sure what it is, but while the good news (for me personally) is that it's a real departure musically, the bad news is that I don't think it really captures what PF do best (again, imho). Three albums I highly recommend: "Ummagumma" (a live disc of early material, & a studio disc of avante-garde stuff), "Meddle" (side two is one song, "Echoes," & is itself worth the price of the album; not wonderful production on this album, but some great work), & "Animals" (can't describe it, but most "dedicated" PF fans, I've noticed, tend to say this is their favorite, & I'm one of them). They also put out a double-disc "sampler" a few years back which is really great, & is mastered so that the tracks are continuous play--no breaks between. For video, one of my top fave music films of all time is "Live at Pompeii." Wow. Well, I could go on all day about PF, so I'll stop here! :rolleyes:

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Well, there's a reason why the Beatles are still being talked about. And Floyd. And the Stones.

 

For that matter, there is value in Sinatra. In Glenn Miller. In Louis Armstrong. In Scott Joplin.

 

Music that outlasts a generation does so for a reason. It's not just "mom and pop's sounds, making them dream of when they were kids."

 

Sure, pop music is, and has always been, culturally relevant to the generation it was written for. Even BEETHOVEN DID THIS. At the same time, the music has a value of it's own.

 

Heres a story. Many years ago, I was the 11-7 manager of a cleaning crew at a hospital. One night, at our 2:30 am "lunch" break, I went to the hospital chapel, where there was a piano. In the room, one of my employees, a Vietnamese woman with a poor grasp of English...a maid who cleaned up in a hospital...completely isolated from all she grew up believing to be normal. She sat down, and I said, "What do you think of this?" and I played the slow movement from Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata on the piano.

 

I milked it...pulling out every ounce of feeling. After I finished, she was in tears. I asked her what she thought, and she said, "You make me think of my country." She walked out quietly.

 

Think of it. A white boss playing music 260 years old, written in Germany for a prince, by a hermit who lived his life from one unfulfilled crush after another...to a lady jerked away from her Asian nation...both a friend to the American GI's and a witness to the communism which tore her country apart, and then took it over.

 

What is it about music? Hundreds of years after something is written, it can evoke such powerful emotions in folks NOT a part of the culture that produced it.

 

Is there any wonder I've made it my life, and my master?

"Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread.

 

Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate.

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Originally posted by Scootdog:

.."In my life" features a rare (first?) harpsichord solo in pop music....

Yay, OT trivia time! That's actually a sped-up PIANO solo, performed by George Martin on 10/22/65. This is the first time & hardly the last!) that a Beatles production deliberately used manipulation of tape speed to produce a specific timbre.

But what inquiring minds would still like to know is: did George play both left&right hands at once, or are these TWO overdubs?

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I tend to gravitate towards the earlier albums, basically everything up to (including) Revolver.

 

I'd have to say that Rubber Soul is their overall best album according to my ears. All this stuff was made back in the days of strong, complete albums rather than a hit single and 9 tracks of filler crap (but that is a whole other thread).

 

I was about to list my fovarite songs, but I don't think there is enough bandwidth for it... ;)

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The Beatles? Sorry, but this is one guy that's never ever gotten what was so fabulous about them.

 

Many people have tried to "convert" me and have given me compilations and suggestions over the years. But I've always found their guitars to sound horribly twangy and out of tune, and the vocals have always sounded forced and/or out of harmony.

 

I don't get them at all. I've even tried playing some of their songs as covers, and it didn't seem very fun to me at all, no challenge.

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; one lick and you suck forever.
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GeorgeR provoked:

The Beatles? Sorry, but this is one guy that's never ever gotten what was so fabulous about them.

 

Many people have tried to "convert" me and have given me compilations and suggestions over the years. But I've always found their guitars to sound horribly twangy and out of tune, and the vocals have always sounded forced and/or out of harmony.

 

I don't get them at all. I've even tried playing some of their songs as covers, and it didn't seem very fun to me at all, no challenge.

Forgive me, George...but what songs did you play as covers. Not challenging? In what way? If you're talking something like "She Loves You," I could see your point. But "Getting Better"? "Michelle"? "Lovely Rita?" If you think these tunes are easy and no big deal, you must have some amazing feel my friend. Remember, it's not just about the notes, it's about the pocket and groove as well, and Paul had that in spades...

 

If you mean "he wasn't playing some wild, crazy technical shit", then yes I guess Paul McCartney sucked as a bassist...because you're nothing unless you're overplaying all over the place. Right? :rolleyes:

 

Paul McCartney's work was great, and still is in my opinion. Is he as influential and prolific as Jaco in terms of spreadng virtuosity as an essential part of playing bass? No. So what? Neither is Les Claypool (sorry, he hasn't done anything that other less well-known bassists haven't done before), yet he seems to get worshipped just as much as McCartney...

 

"Twangy and out of tune guitars..." Hmmm...my sense of pitch is pretty damn good, and the guitars didn't sound any more out of tune than ALL guitars and basses do. No fretted instrument will ever be perfectly in tune.

 

I guess guitars don't ever sound good unless they're plugged into Mesa/Boogie amps cranked up to 11 with the mids cut all the way while the bass and treble are cranked. Jeez...

 

What you've said about their vocals doesn't even warrant a response, because it's obvious to me you haven't listened to them at all.

 

I'm no die-hard Beatles fan myself. They weren't Gods. But they were impeccable with their craft.

 

I've covered their songs too. Paul's genius didn't lie in his technical ability at all. It was the musical choices he made and the great pocket he had.

 

Your statements about not liking the Beatles becaause you don't like their music are valid. Your taste is your taste, and everyone's entitled to their opinion. But your statements about their craft don't demonstrate anything other than the lack of knowledge regarding the more subtle aspects of technique and musicality.

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Originally posted by GeorgeR:

The Beatles? Sorry, but this is one guy that's never ever gotten what was so fabulous about them.

 

Many people have tried to "convert" me and have given me compilations and suggestions over the years. But I've always found their guitars to sound horribly twangy and out of tune, and the vocals have always sounded forced and/or out of harmony.

 

I don't get them at all. I've even tried playing some of their songs as covers, and it didn't seem very fun to me at all, no challenge.

No problems, mate.

 

I'm currently rabidly fascinated by the Corelli Concerto Grossi, Op. 6. Listened day and night for about 2 weeks now...

 

Before now, I just didn't get him. Ya gotta have ears to hear.

 

The Beatles appeal has to have more depth than mere popularity...after all, there was once a time when the most popular band in the world was: ABBA.

 

The Beatles appeal must have something to do with things OTHER than twangy guitar...since that's not what MOST people associate with the Beatles.

 

The Beatles appeal must have something to do with things other than "challenge."

 

People don't generally listen to music simply because "the musicians are working very hard." Generally, there is something in the music, the lyrics, and in something bigger in combining those two things.

 

And it's okay not to "get it." If the Beatles said all that needed to be said, or if they spoke to every soul, there'd be no room for anybody else.

 

Just keep your ears and heart open. And don't be surprised if something they did wedges itself in.

"Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread.

 

Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate.

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Originally posted by davebrownbass:

...after all, there was once a time when the most popular band in the world was: ABBA.

...

Whoa... ABBA... I'm having disco ball flashbacks!

Suddenly I feel like running playfully through a grassy park in a leisure suit in slo-mo...

 

Somebody pinch me... or hit me with some Sex Pistols!

 

DX

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Roland Bolt-60 (modified)

Genz Benz GBE250-C 2x10

Acoustic 2x12 cab

 

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I thought everybody on the planet had to love the Beatles, surely it's an unwritten law?!

 

Revolver is definitely my personal favourite. Rubber Soul? I bought that L.P about 4 years ago and can't have listened to it more than 20 times. It's just never really grabbed me.

 

ScootDog, I thought Paperback Writer was the Beatles first song that didn't deal with love. ?!

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

CupMcMali...this monkey's gone to heaven :freak:

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Originally posted by GeorgeR:

The Beatles? Sorry, but this is one guy that's never ever gotten what was so fabulous about them.

 

Many people have tried to "convert" me and have given me compilations and suggestions over the years. But I've always found their guitars to sound horribly twangy and out of tune, and the vocals have always sounded forced and/or out of harmony.

 

I don't get them at all. I've even tried playing some of their songs as covers, and it didn't seem very fun to me at all, no challenge.

Well, either I'd say your a young, more metallic type player, in which case the Beatles don't slam it out enough for you...or you're over 70, and the Beatles slam it out too much for you, and you're looking for Lawrence Welk type stuff. :D

 

But, alas, no problem. Not everyone's going to like the same thing.

 

But, no matter on which side of the argument you stand...if you're a young metalloid player, the people you idolize probably idolized the Beatles, or the people they idolized did. So, if you idolize, say (purely for the sake of argument) Metallica, and they idolized Sabbath, Sabbath idolized the Beatles. At least Ozzy did.

 

And, if you're on the other side, the over 70 crowd, maybe playing Herb Ellis style jazz or something, then surely you could appreciate some of the melodies the Beatles played.

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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Can of worms, eh!

 

No, I'm not gonna respond too much.

 

Like the Popeye quote goes, eh, I am what I am and that's all what I am!

 

But to be clear......I'm not into metal (yuck!!) and I'm not "young" (I'm in my mid 30s).

 

And I just wanted to make that clear.

 

If you're curious, look into my profile and you'll find my website. There's some stuff about my music there, but only if you're curious as to what kind of a person could not like the Beatles, which seems to shock people every now and then.

 

TTFN!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; one lick and you suck forever.
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The Beatles are one of those bands that keep coming back. My daughter (now 18) has been a huge fan for years.

 

Rather than name songs (could do that for days), I'd look at the elements they bring in. All types of lyrics, from goofy to beautiful, from simple to deep messages. Lots of varied vocals, lots of different types of harmonies (sometimes thick, sometimes simple). They rock, they go acoustic. They have simple chord patterns and complex. And their story was one of the first that captured the ups/downs/sideways of public vs. private life.

 

And McCartney was one great bassist in that band!

 

We love you Beatles, oh yes we do....

 

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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Well, I've already mentioned my dislike of the Beatles and received biting criticism in doing so. If liking the Beatles is an unwritten law, then put me in the unbuilt prison. I respect all they accomplished and the countless musicians they influenced. Indeed, Paul was a fabulous bass player.

I guess I must have missed the boat on the Beatles. I'm 29 and more into blues and rock. There are the very few Beatles songs I like. I can find at least 1 song by most artists that I do like. However, it's not much more than 1 song I like. I do not discount their accomplishments. They obviously did something right, I just do not see it.

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Even if you're not a huge beatles fan (which I'm not), you still have to respect what they did to modern music. I just started a musical journey in which I try to learn as much beatles as I can, just to keep up with my new guitar player.

 

By the by, I do enjoy the Beatles every now and again, but I don't see how not liking them pigeonholes you into a young metaloid or an old fogie. Let's just respect our differences and stay civil. Keep in mind that if all musicians were content with what had already been done, there'd be no more new music.

...think funky thoughts... :freak:
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No one says you have to like the Beatles. I'm exactly the right age to be a Beatles fan. I was in a rock band when the Beatles first hit the USA. At the time I preferred the Stones...they rocked more IMHO.

 

I've changed a lot since those days. Nowadays I'd rather listen to Marcus Miller.....who does a nice cover of "Come Together" by the way.

 

I'd also rather hear a fusion player like Darryl Jones playing with Miles Davis, oops, he's playing with the Stones now, or Abe Laboriel Jr. playing with his dad, oops, he's playing with Paul McCartney now.

 

Just look at what the top 10 songs were the year before the Beatles and then look at what they were the year after the Beatles arrived to appreciate what they did.

 

Let me know when one of your favorite groups has the first 5 songs in the top ten.

 

here's an interesting list:

top 60\'s singles

 

Maybe you had to be there, but some of us thought that rock music had died at the end of the 50's and the Beatles brought it back.

 

But nobody says you have to like them. Stick to your guns.

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I should temper that my angry response wasn't so much directed at George for his opinion. He can dislike the Beatles all day long and still be absolutely right. After all, it's his stereo.

 

But for him to belittle their abilities as players and songwriters, that's what got me hot under the collar.

 

I'll throw this one out there to side with George's gutsy attitude: I don't care for Wynton Marsalis, but the guy can play his ass off. He's an incredible technician on the trumpet, his phrasing and vocabulary are wonderful. I'm just not crazy about his music.

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I'll throw this one out there to side with George's gutsy attitude: I don't care for Wynton Marsalis, but the guy can play his ass off. He's an incredible technician on the trumpet, his phrasing and vocabulary are wonderful. I'm just not crazy about his music.
That's cool.

 

Just because someone says "I don't like ....." there's no reason why we all can't get along, eh!

 

Obviously someone out there likes the Beatles; someone bought all of their records, right?

 

Sorry if you thought I was belittling their songwriting abilities. I can't stand to hear them on the radio or CD.

 

But I do like Sarah Mclaughlin rendering of "Blackbird". She does a great job on it, especially that little D-flat harmonic she puts at the end of it!

 

But after being exposed to their songs for so many decades, as performed by them, I still don't get why people are so nuts about the Beatles, and I don't see any reason to be afraid to say it to anyone.

 

Fear sucks. That's my attitude and by being honest, even if it's against the grain, that's what I want out of life, for folks to be cool, don't be afraid and respect each other.

 

Ok?

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; one lick and you suck forever.
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BenLoy - are you my long-lost brother? Great points: "Say you don't care for the style, but don't negate the impact/direction that followed".

 

jeremyc - hehe; "Nowadays I'd rather listen to Marcus Miller.....who does a nice cover of "Come Together" by the way. I'd also rather hear a fusion player like Darryl Jones playing with Miles Davis, oops, he's playing with the Stones now, or Abe Laboriel Jr. playing with his dad, oops, he's playing with Paul McCartney now."

Point taken, by me anyway. ...Credit where credit is due??....

 

DBB....

Are you running for office? What diplomacy!!!hehe

You're right, I'm just pulling your musically "PC chain"...perception is the mother of invention, eh?

Jim

Confirmed RoscoeHead

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It's important to listen to the Beatles the right way. I suppose that sounds odd, but different bands appeal in very different ways. Take Steely Dan, or Supertramp, or 80s Yes: extremely tight, not a hair out of place, absolute polish in every aspect. But then take a band like Creedence or the Stones: rough around the edges, imprecise, sort of catch-as-catch-can. And they're both great. Take "Bad Moon Rising"--that song just wouldn't make you want to stand up & dance if it were played in the squeaky clean fashion, & "Peg" would just flop if it were played in the roughshod fashion. If you listen to the Grateful Dead & are looking for CSN, they'll sound sloppy; if you're listening to CSN & looking for the Dead, they'll sound sterile. The point is that you've got to figure out what a band's terms are, & listen to them on those terms.

 

This isn't trying to "convert" anyone, btw. What's the point? I mean, I like the Stones & the Who OK, but they've just never hit my like Zeppelin does; I like ELP, but they've just never done it for my like Yes. I don't need converting. That's just me.

 

Of course, sometimes you DO hear a band on their own terms, & you just don't like those terms. Sometimes you hear them on their own terms, & even on their own terms they're still not very good. (E.g. I hated "Robin Hood: Men in Tights," & whenever I told anyone that they immediately said, "Oh, you just don't understand that kind of movie." No, I DO understand that kind of movie, I just thought it was a horrible specimen of that type of movie (of which "Young Frankenstein" e.g. is a brilliant specimen, imho).)

 

What are the Beatles' terms? Well, I think Paul hit the nail on the head one time when he said that for him, the Beatles was just a great little rock & roll band. You know, good feel, good beat, good for a smile, sticks in your head...just rock & roll, played like rock & roll.

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that is a great point there DCR. on how you can appreciate a band even if you don't like their style of music.

 

I once heard that:

 

"the worst song by the beatles is still better than the best song that you've ever wrote"

 

all their songs are so well put together instrumentally even if the lyrics or melody is a little too popish for some.

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For me, I just simply do not like the Beatles. I guess hearing them on their terms, or anyone else's terms, the music just didn't catch me. I have no particular reason, I just simply do not like them. Now, my not liking the Beatles does not mean that I dislike anyone who likes them, as I'm sure many of you feel the converse. A good friend of mine was dating a girl who absolutely adored the Beatles. She asked me what I thought about them and I told her. She got so mad because she thought that, since I didn't like the Beatles that I didn't like her. That couldn't be further from the truth.

The Beatles really surged forward with their music. There were so many complexities in their music. Anyone who refuses to admit that, whether a fan or not, is an idiot. While in college, the school ensemble group played a few of their songs. I had trouble learning them, not because they were too intricate or too something for me. I just had trouble forcing myself to learn them. The lines were moderately difficult, but, nothing that was too difficult to play. In fact, I had more trouble learning the Jamerson lines, but, they were "easier" to play for me because I heard something in that music that I liked.

I guess what I'm rambling on about here is, just because GeorgeR thinks the Beatles aren't that good is no reason to stonewall him. If someone dislikes something you adore, it doesn't give you license to take your toys and go home. If all music sounded like the Beatles, I'd do everything I could to make myself go deaf. There is a reason there are so many different genres of music.

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Originally posted by GeorgeR:

Can of worms, eh!

 

No, I'm not gonna respond too much.

 

Like the Popeye quote goes, eh, I am what I am and that's all what I am!

 

But to be clear......I'm not into metal (yuck!!) and I'm not "young" (I'm in my mid 30s).

 

And I just wanted to make that clear.

 

If you're curious, look into my profile and you'll find my website. There's some stuff about my music there, but only if you're curious as to what kind of a person could not like the Beatles, which seems to shock people every now and then.

 

TTFN!

I was jes' givin' y'all shit, ya know? It would be a boring world indeed if everyone liked the same stuff. :D

 

That said...I just find it funny that to some folks, talking about a particular band that they don't care for is like a magnet drawing them in to comment. I've seen lots of topics on bands I'm not enamored with, and I usually don't read those topics, much less comment on them.

 

Example thread...

 

"ABBA REUNION TOUR". Reads by me...0. Comments...0.

 

To quote the late John Lennon..."Whatever gets you through the night"... :D

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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