Idnarb Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by danymal_x: Originally posted by Idnarb: [QB] Oy! This is why I'm heading out to sea. Pirates never blamed shit on other people. If they got a rapier in the side, they sucked it up and said.. man...I suck, I sure deserved that. Oh yea..and they smokd tobaccy too. QB]Ahhrrrg, do ye be needin' a crew, Cap'n Idnarb? I've just polished me cutlass and varnished me pegleg, and I be ready to taste the salt sea air again and hoist the Jolly Roger and plunder and pillage on the Main! Ahhrrg! "Rawwk, Rawwk, peices of eight! Peices of eight!" DXAlways looking for a good crew. S'long as you drink rum, love the sea and dont mind a Beatle smokin a fag, your welcome board my ship any day. -Captain Your Friendly Neighborhood Pirate- Idnarb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 This past weekend my bands played three shows in three smoke-filled bars in three days. My previously smoke-tainted jacket just got another coat of smoke stink. Nice, huh? I don't smoke, and I don't let the other guys in my bands (all smokers) smoke in the van when I'm in there. I figure if I'm stuck in smokey bars all night, the least I could have is a smoke-free vehicle. After all, that van is our home on the road. I want it to be smoke-less and pleasant. In the clubs, etc, I don't care as much. Why? Mainly because I can walk away to another, less smokey area if I want. When I'm in the van, I can't escape. Personally, I think smoking is a nasty, smelly way to pay the tobacco companies to kill you. But hey... It's addictive as hell and very hard to quit, so I don't preach to smokers. I just walk away when I'm among them. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowbell Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 Cool news from Texas. New smoking ordinance says no smoking inside restauraunts. Business owners are complaining,naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanYmaL X Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Idnarb: Originally posted by danymal_x: Always looking for a good crew. S'long as you drink rum, love the sea and dont mind a Beatle smokin a fag, your welcome board my ship any day. -CaptainAs long as there's enough rum to go around (or enough for me anyways- I'm willing to shoulder the burden alone if theres not enough to go around...) I don't mind anyone smoking anything... When do we set sail, and what poor innocent ports are going to feel our Pirately wrath first? DX Aerodyne Jazz Deluxe Pod X3 Live Roland Bolt-60 (modified) Genz Benz GBE250-C 2x10 Acoustic 2x12 cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcr Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I'm not sure the question is whether smoking is good or bad, whether people should have the right to do it & where, & so on. What disturbs me about the Abbey Road thing is the idea of "correcting" historical documents & other items of historical interest so that we can just wipe away evidence of a time when people had values & did things that we don't find to our liking. That's extremely troublesome in its own right, and unlikely to be very effective, anyway. "But the kids might see it." Yes, they might. In a way, that's the point. Good, bad, or indifferent, people have a right to view the past for themselves, as it was. It's unfair for one generation to "filter" these things for the next. And it also just strikes me as kind of a weird thing to do. (Heck, why not embrace the old myth about the cover being about a dead Paul being conveyed to the Great Beyond? "Yeah, kids, Paul is dead...dead from smoking!" [insert wide-eyed, significant grave look here].) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbass Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Edendude: You can't expect anything that you do, that causes poisonous gases to enter another person's body justifiable. Or a RIGHT, as some dickheads seem to think it should be. I take it you don't drive a car. After having made a statement like that, I'd hate to think you were forcing people to breathe the poisonous fumes from your vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I don't think he has much of a choice as far as the car goes. Somebody smoking is a different story. Let's use some common sense here. Better yet, let's drop the smoking thing and talk about music again. Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 About smoking and good business... Turns out the many of the businesses which first complained about smoking bans are now eating crow. Just about all the studies that have been done to assess the profits of businesses which have been under smoking bans for a year or longer, right across North America, are showing INCREASED profits over the second, third, and fourth quarters. Only marginal losses were reflected during the first quarter earnings of the businesses surveyed. And this too is a complete no-brainer... Smokers are a 'minority', so businesses which allow smoking in their establishments are alienating a market more than twice the size of the one they have when they allow smoking. So those Texas business that are complaing are pretty short-sighted business people, I would suggest. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Mudbass... No... I don't drive a car in a bar, restaurant, or any other public building. Do you?! I also don't smoke, or fart in people's faces while they eat in restaurants or drink in bars, either. All three are basically no-brainers... For the 'majority' of us, that is! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbass Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Edendude: Mudbass... No... I don't drive a car in a bar, restaurant, or any other public building. Do you?! Heh, well now wait just a minute here. Your statement was... You can't expect anything that you do, that causes poisonous gases to enter another person's body justifiable. Or a RIGHT, as some dickheads seem to think it should be. You seem to have gotten caught in your own definition. Every pedestrian waiting to cross the street in the vicinity of your car has to breathe in the poisonous gases you're causing. According to what you said, nobody has a right to do that to another person. It seems to me your logic only applied to others. It's OK to poison others on the street, just not in bars or restaraunts. At face value, your statement was pretty hypocritical and I'm just playing devil's advocate here. The funniest thing to me is nonsmokers worried about the poisons in second-hand smoke demanding the right to be able to go into smoke-free bars where they can consume poisons. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Mudbass... Allow me to clarify for you, since the obvious evades you for some reason... I really could care less if you smoke outside or in your own home. But anyone with half a brain can understand why allowing smoking indoors in public confined spaces is ridiculous. You can side-step the issues and redefine the intent and meaning of my words until the freakin' cows come home, but two things are inescapable in this debate... Not only is it obvious to everyone but only the most ignorant or weak-minded that allowing smoking in confined public spaces is unfair and wrong in every sense of those words, but also that the practice will eventually go the way of segregation in restaurants and bars, as was practiced a half century ago in your country. A practice which I hope we all look back on with utter repugnance, just as how in fifty years from now we will look back on smoking in public access buildings as utterly repugnant and unbelievable. So you may as well get used to it. The benefits to musicians and those whom provide services in bars, restaurants and all places of business is entirely obvious. The advantage to the businesses themselves is obvious. The advantages to the non-smoking patrons of said businesses is obvious. And there probably is even a huge advantage to smokers who may give quitting some serious reconsideration, once smoking becomes even more socially unaccepable. Intelligence will prevail, so those on your side of the agrument don't have a chance at making your case, I would suggest. As a musician who has to face smokey bars every time he practices his craft, this is a very serious issue for me. I think it should be a serious issue for all working musicians and those other groups whom are employed in places where smoking is permitted indoors. A smoking ban in all bars cannot come soon enough! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 P.S. I think ridding us of the noxious gas emmissions from the internal combustion engine is, of course, a noble pursuit for the future, also. And hopefully hydrogen fuel cell technology will lead us to that end in this century too. But that's another argument. And a task far more difficult to achieve than the ban on smoking in bars, restaurants, and public access buildings. One step at a time. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanYmaL X Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Got to hand it to you Eden, you handled the same argument twice in the same thread, admirably done! Been meaning to ask... do they do any surfing up there? I've always wanted to tour the northeast coast looking for good breaks... Thought it'd be cool to surf the incoming tide in the Bay of Fundy... DX Aerodyne Jazz Deluxe Pod X3 Live Roland Bolt-60 (modified) Genz Benz GBE250-C 2x10 Acoustic 2x12 cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbass Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Edendude - I'm not arguing for or against smoking in public places. Once again I must shine the light back on your statement. You called people dickheads who think they are justified or have a right to cause poisons to enter another person's body. I simply pointed out a situation that by your own definition qualifies you as a dickhead. I just think that before you go around calling folks names, you should take a look around and make sure you're as clean as the wind driven snow. ...and no, I don't smoke and I don't hate people who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Mudbass: The funniest thing to me is nonsmokers worried about the poisons in second-hand smoke demanding the right to be able to go into smoke-free bars where they can consume poisons. Go figure.Ahem... Alcoholic beverages in moderate amounts have been proven to be beneficial to your heart's function. Go read some JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) archives if you don't believe me. I don't need someone tellin' me that I can't have a glass of wine for dinner with my leg of lamb, baked potato, Cobb salad, and nine grain bread! Do your research, eh. (Sorry, not much of a barhopper, but I like my libations just the same.) If air quality is such a concern to you, most studies have shown that air from the outside is still cleaner than indoor air. (Again, go read some JAMA). This would be a good enough reason, then, to demand the smoking bans. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Mudbass... One word.."context". I don't hate smokers either. I hate having to endure the effects of their habit in enclosed public places, both because it feels unpleasant, and it's harmful to my health and others. As musicians whom work and practice our craft in bars and venues which are essestially the last bastion of this problem, I think we should be united in ridding the bar, restaurant, and entertainment industry of this scourge. Just as trade unions fought to rid the workplace of asbestos. I'm sick and tired of facing this problem at every gig I play. And it's personal in another way for me, too. My girlfriend can't even attend my gigs, without being prepared to be sick for days afterwards, because she is asthmatic. So I must pose a rhetorical question... Is there anyone on this board who would try to make the argument that smoking should continue to be allowed in bars, restaurants, and publically accessed buildings, in the face of all the solid reasoning to the contrary? My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Dany... There is a some surf up here, but the waters of the North Atlantic are soooo bloody cold that you had better have both a very good wetsuit, with gloves and boots and a hood, and a very high tolerance to the cold. Definitely a better spot for wheelin' than surfin', dude. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanYmaL X Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Edendude: Dany... There is a some surf up here, but the waters of the North Atlantic are soooo bloody cold that you had better have both a very good wetsuit, with gloves and boots and a hood, and a very high tolerance to the cold. Definitely a better spot for wheelin' than surfin', dude.Being originally from Alaska and Northwestern Canada, the cold is no problem, although from what I understand, the North Atlantic really is a miserable bitch compared to my North Pacific... might be worth checking out... and like I said, I've always wanted to tour the Northeast coast. I'll guess I'll just have to get a Jeep with a board rack... DX Aerodyne Jazz Deluxe Pod X3 Live Roland Bolt-60 (modified) Genz Benz GBE250-C 2x10 Acoustic 2x12 cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idnarb Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by danymal_x: Originally posted by Idnarb: Originally posted by danymal_x: Always looking for a good crew. S'long as you drink rum, love the sea and dont mind a Beatle smokin a fag, your welcome board my ship any day. -CaptainAs long as there's enough rum to go around (or enough for me anyways- I'm willing to shoulder the burden alone if theres not enough to go around...) I don't mind anyone smoking anything... When do we set sail, and what poor innocent ports are going to feel our Pirately wrath first? DXI'll bring the rum, you bring the smokeables, all kinds. Ports? Well..I suppose Tortuga, some nice little tropical places off Madagascar, not sure if I want to pillage it, but I wouldnt mind a stop in Jamaica. -Captain. Your Friendly Neighborhood Pirate- Idnarb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idnarb Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by dcr: I'm not sure the question is whether smoking is good or bad, whether people should have the right to do it & where, & so on. What disturbs me about the Abbey Road thing is the idea of "correcting" historical documents & other items of historical interest so that we can just wipe away evidence of a time when people had values & did things that we don't find to our liking. That's extremely troublesome in its own right, and unlikely to be very effective, anyway. "But the kids might see it." Yes, they might. In a way, that's the point. Good, bad, or indifferent, people have a right to view the past for themselves, as it was. It's unfair for one generation to "filter" these things for the next. And it also just strikes me as kind of a weird thing to do. (Heck, why not embrace the old myth about the cover being about a dead Paul being conveyed to the Great Beyond? "Yeah, kids, Paul is dead...dead from smoking!" [insert wide-eyed, significant grave look here].) Your point about correcting history is great. That is by far the mist disturbing thing about this. Did you know that on New Years, some sponsors paid to have the natural advertisements in Time's Square air brushed over and have their own added with computer? Talk about changing history. Your Friendly Neighborhood Pirate- Idnarb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idnarb Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Edendude: Yes a spin through the food-court at the mall in my Jeep after a bad day would be nice! And my point is not to condone any kind of behavior which affects the health of others. My point is that only a smoker would try to counter-argue the idea that banning smoking in, at least, all buildings open to the public is a bad idea. It's just so obvious! Smoking next to someone in a bar or restaurant is analogous to farting in that person's face. So if people are too dumb not to realize that, there is no alternative to legislation of the problem. I think the obtuse use of political correctness is just as ridiculaous as you do, however, including the Paul McCartney cigarette crap, as I said above. It's the lame brains who don't get the fart in your face analogy that really piss me off.Actually, I am a non smoker. I have never smoked tobacco and despise the way it smells. But I think smoking bands in bars is a bad idea. Its a bar after all! A haven of bad habits. Soon they'll ban alcohol. You dont like smoke, dont work in a bar! You can just as easily work in a restaurant. Im not gonna argue over it, but yes..even a NON smoker can think a smoking ban in bars is a bad idea. Your Friendly Neighborhood Pirate- Idnarb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Dude... Bars are for socializing, enjoying live entertainment, and savouring a drop of the grape! If they are non-smoking establishments, both smokers and non-smokers are free to enjoy all three activities. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Bars are private property. It should be up to the owners to decide what happens. Be careful what you ask for, cause you are next. The new Puritans don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Originally posted by Edendude: Yep I love my Rubicon, and would love to do the Rubicon Trail sometime, especially after I get six inches of lift and a set of 33s or 35s on her. Funny how many musicians I meet whom are into the off-road scene. And funny how many musicians I meet on the trail, while off-road in the Jeep. Seems to be a correlation there. I guess Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, and Ted Nugent are the most famous musicians whom are also off-road enthusiasts. What kind of a rig did you run, back when you did? Tread lightly! I have a 97 Toyota Tacoma, 6" of lift, 33x12.50s on it. It's fairly Nigh-Unstoppable. It will be even more Nigh-Unstoppable when I finally do a solid front axle conversion (complete with front air locker). Rear already has a locker, the TRD one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanYmaL X Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Saweeeeeettt! Toyota's rock... and mud... and snow... you get the picture. DX Aerodyne Jazz Deluxe Pod X3 Live Roland Bolt-60 (modified) Genz Benz GBE250-C 2x10 Acoustic 2x12 cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Yeah... Too bad they didn't carry on making the Toyota FJ40 line. Can you imagine how sweet Toyota's version of my Rubicon might have been?! About lockers... As you probably know, the Con has air lockers both front a rear. And driving a Jeep with lockers off-road for the first time is nothing short of a religious experience, I assure you! And of course, the 4:1 transfer case that gives me a 66:1 crawl ratio is pretty amazing, too. It translates to about 16,000 ft/lbs of torque at the axle shafts! That's as much torque as a pro drag racer! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 About bars being 'private property'... You're right in the general sense, but under the law, places of business which are accessible to the general public must adhere to a VERY diffferent standard than say...your house or residence. And for the same reasons that there are laws with regard to the handling of food, fire exits, and other health and saftey standards, there will also soon be laws preventing these same types of businesses from allowing smoking on their premises. Which makes perfect sense, of course. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Well, it doesn't make perfect sense to me. Public access does not make public property to me. People unfortunately bring on requlation themselves but don't realize what they will get in return. If I don't have my name on the deed, it's not my property. Period. Just wait until your property becomes regulated. I'll look forward to your sense of perfect. On the surface you will act one way just to prove me wrong, but I know how business/property owners feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Sorry dude...but NONE of that made any sense to me. It was kinda funny though. How about another one of those?! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by paostby: Well, it doesn't make perfect sense to me. Public access does not make public property to me. People unfortunately bring on requlation themselves but don't realize what they will get in return. If I don't have my name on the deed, it's not my property. Period. Just wait until your property becomes regulated. I'll look forward to your sense of perfect. On the surface you will act one way just to prove me wrong, but I know how business/property owners feel.The US Civil Rights Act of 1964, which was unanimously upheld by the US Supreme Court, says that private businesses open to the public are considered public accommodations. The particular issues at the time were whether or not privately owned hotels and restaurants could refuse to admit or serve blacks. The law and the court said they cannot. If you wish, you can argue all you want to about how this is wrong in theory, but IN FACT you are wrong. Public accommodations are subject to laws and regulations which would not apply to your private home. (edited for spelling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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