dcr Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 This has come up before, but I thought it'd be interesting to raise it as its own topic. I read an interview with Tina Weymouth in BP, in which she discussed her choice to use keys to play her bass parts on some tunes (e.g. "Burning Down the House"). She said that bassists at the time really hassled her about it. On the one hand, that strikes me as nonsense. The role is to provide a certain part of the music that is the bass, and that can be done on a variety of instruments. The "bassist" is usually the best one to supply that part, whatever the instrument, because that's the part of the music he or she best understands. Whether it's done with a P bass or a Moog is just an artistic choice for a "bassist" to make; it's not a choice of being a bassist or not. On the other hand, it makes sense to identify a type of musician by the type of instrument he or she plays. Anyway, this kind of complicates what it means to say someone is a "bassist." So if I play bass, what's my instrument? Just curious about people's thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny, Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Interesting question. Check out the last response to this thread. Personally, I think any instrument that can generate low end is worthy of providing "the bass". Lots of synthesizers, especially analogs and VA's can occupy a lower frequency range than an electric bass. So I feel there's no reason why they shouldn't be considered valid bass instruments. Not to mention all the sound and modulation possibilities. Whoever said synth bass is not as "expressive" as bass guitar has never played a good one. SILLY WABBIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Well, there's all kind of music, and all kinds of instruments providing the role of the bass. In a Dixieland band or brass quartet, it's the Tuba. In a woodwind ensemble, it's the bassoon. In a mariachi band, it's a guitarron. In the Doors, it's a keyboard. However, to narrow things down: If I play the electric bass guitar...I can fill a particular role...and expand that role in ways idiomatic to the EBG. Similiarly, I can expand that knowledge to the URB, again...choosing things idiomatic (such as ghosted notes.) A synth has to imitate what comes naturally to the URB player, or leave it out. If I play synth bass...that expands naturally into the keyboard...which carries it's own idiom. If I play Tuba bass, that expands quite naturally into a different idiom. I would say that each is a bassist, each providing a similiar role for a given type of music. A little crossover is to be expected; it's been done that way for centuries. However, to say I'm an electric bassist, or a classical bassist playing URB in an orchestra, implies certain things about the approach I use when I play, and certain types of sounds that may be expected of me. Tina Weymouth, or anybody else, does no violence to bass playing by choosing synth bass. At most, it puts an electric only player out a a job. As a composer/producer of music, these choices are fairly made; the marketplace decides whether they like it or not. Similiar arguments were made about the synthesizer performances by Walter/Wendy Carlos of Bach music; again...the marketplace decides the relative value. Purists will always argue; they are generally bitter old people with giant axes to grind...not the least of which is that they are frustrated musicians in some way. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 I agree that all low-end instruments have their respective qualities, but a bass guitar has one simple quality that the others never will . . . and that's the fact that it looks cool. I've never looked at a tuba player (tubist?) and thought "Man, that's one cool cat!" Am I being petty? Probably. But would "Elvis" still of been "Elvis" if he had an accordion strapped to him instead of a guitar? And if he did, would Bill Haley be the King of Rock & Roll? Now that is scary, that guy looked like my great-uncle on my "uncool" side of my family. I'm going for more aspirin now . . . Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 I don't know man, these look pretty cool to me. http://www.novationonline.co.uk/nov_route/images/prod_pics/ks45_lg_1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I like low sounds, and I like what those sounds do to me. I'm not a master musician, so I'm sticking to bass guitar because I love it and I can't do everything.... When the bass part is great, I'm in. I don't care what instrument it is - I'm singing the bass part. With some types of music the musician is playing what's written for them, as opposed to making up the part for themselves (spontaneously or not). So when I hear a great tuba part in a concert band, I find myself giving credit to the composer/arranger as well as the person playing the part. In an originals rock band, I'm giving credit to one person only. Keyboard bass? Well, I hated (and still hate) most disco music. Among other things the bass part often sucked. For me, it was the fact that the palyer wasn't thinking like a bass player. There are many great keyboard bassists (Stevie Wonder jumps to mind), so it's not just the instrument... It's the ability to think bass. Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Good question! I'm simply a bassist, who, without a electric bass, is as useful as a handbrake on a canoe! CupMcMali...this monkey's gone to heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I don't merely play bass, I play the electric bass guitar. I have played string bass, acoustic bass guitar, mini-moog, organ pedals and random other things which made low sounds in my life, but they aren't my instrument. Keyboards may sound ok on records, but an electric bass is an essential part of a cooking rhythm section. I've seen a lot of bands with keyboardists playing the bass part, they never groove the same way. Name a famous rhythm section consisting of a drummer and a keyboard player and prove me wrong. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Jimmy Smith and Art Blakey. I actually agree with JeremyC, but Jimmy's got one crazy left hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banta Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Bah. A keyboard is not an adequate substitute for a bass. Bass guitar is where it's at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KikkyMonk Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Bjork uses timpani samples as bass... take that! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 That just proves my point. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: Name a famous rhythm section consisting of a drummer and a keyboard player and prove me wrong.Larry Young and Tony Williams. Lonnie Smith and Marvin "Smitty" Smith. Larry Goldings and Bill Stewart. Lee Michaels and Frosty. Keith Emerson and a drum machine, if he felt like it - he's got the baddest left hand licks in history. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by Banta: Bah. A keyboard is not an adequate substitute for a bass. Bass guitar is where it's at.I would say that's backwards, sir. In my humble opinion, a bass cannot replace a keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: Name a famous rhythm section consisting of a drummer and a keyboard player and prove me wrong.Since when are rhythm sections famous? Music isn't about being famous. Some of the best basslines I've ever heard were done on synths, and some of them weren't even played live, only sequenced. Apples and oranges here, it totally depends on the style of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Rhythm sections become famous because people love to listen to them, but of course you knew that already. Flashlight has a nice keyboard bass part by Bernie Worrell and Boogie On Reggae Woman by Stevie Wonder does too. I can duplicate those songs on a Fender bass with a few pedals. I haven't heard any keyboard players who can duplicate what Louis Johnson, Abe Laboriel, Chuck Rainey, Marcus Miller and a slew of others. Most of the bands that use sequenced parts on the records carry a full band live. I wonder why that is? Name some songs and players, please, you never put anything specific in your trolls. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davich Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Well I regard myself as a musician with electric bass as my preferred musical instrument to play at this particular time. I have wishes in my life, if I can play AUB or EUB, or synth bass/moog or other if possible, just to see whether it fits my musicianship and how it will impact the song/art that is produced. Funny how Jimmy Haslip is taking his bass tone as tuba sounding in Yellowjackets. That's how he choose Roscoe - a tuba that kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: Most of the bands that use sequenced parts on the records carry a full band live. I wonder why that is? Why do most bands using sequenced bass use a bass player live? I think Dr. Strangelove answered your question in another thread. Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove: In my opinion, the only reason real bassits are still around is to satisfy an audience during a live show. Someone playing synth bass just doesn't produce the same visual excitement. This is unfortunate, because the best bass sounds I ever heard came from one of these He then posts a picture of a Minimoog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: Name some songs and players, please, you never put anything specific in your trolls.A few artists that have used or currently use synth bass: Nine Inch Nails Everything But the Girl Squarepusher Underworld Gino Vanelli Herbie Hancock Air Zero 7 Portishead Bjork Massive Attack Tricky Orbital Sneaker Pimps Pat Metheny Garbage The New Deal Tina Weymouth Tweaker Depeche Mode Esthero Front Line Assembly Delerium Kruder & Dorfmeister The Prodigy Vangelis Like I said, apples & oranges. Electric bass is "a sound". Acoustic bass is "a sound". Analog synth bass is "a sound". Digital synth bass is "a sound". Upright bass is "a sound". Recording your own voice and dropping the pitch till it becomes bass is "a sound". The sound that YOU use depends on what style of music you are into, and how far you want to push the limits of that style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 thanks, Jode, for your list. You are right, those are great rhythm sections. More lists: Sly Stone (on bass) (and guitar and keyboards) and the cheesy drum machine he used on There's A Riot Going On. Mark King and whatever combination of drummers and sequencers he is playing with at the moment. Steve Lawson and his loops. I've spent many a night in a dance club, dancing to recorded music, but in addition to the visual excitement of a live band, even a crummy band has more energy than a recording, whether it is on tape or sequencer. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 What, I answered two of your questions, and I don't even get a thank you? My list was even longer than Jodes, not to mention more relevant. Do I smell a jazz snob among us? Ahhh, he is not responding, the clear sign of his impending defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KikkyMonk Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Doesn't NIN use a bass? I hear it on Downward Spiral... and I saw the fragile tour video and I swear there was someone playing bass. Anywho I really like what Trent does with synth bass... his parts are super funky yet hardcore... You can hear him play on Marilyn Manson's CDs too... He definatly has his own style one of my favs Wheee! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 This man knows what I'm talking about. You're right, Trent plays electric bass as well as synth bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSanX Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 In response to Dr. Strangelove's post in another topic, "In my opinion, the only reason real bassits are still around is to satisfy an audience during a live show." How can you say that? So your saying that Chris Squire, Larry Graham, Les Claypool, and any other profilic bass player only play to satisfy an audience? Their careers have all been for naught? All that hard work, and to only satisfy an audience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded yeti Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by IanSanX: In response to Dr. Strangelove's post in another topic, "In my opinion, the only reason real bassits are still around is to satisfy an audience during a live show." How can you say that? So your saying that Chris Squire, Larry Graham, Les Claypool, and any other profilic bass player only play to satisfy an audience? Their careers have all been for naught? All that hard work, and to only satisfy an audience...Perhaps my wording was poor. I think Claypool is a genius, but he is not your average case. I'd say in most cases, I prefer synth bass. But I agree, prolific and innovative players have their own 'vibe' about them, and Claypool is definitely up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Our posts crossed in the mail. Thanks for your list, Miles. I am defeated. My basses are for sale. I've wasted the last 35 years of my life. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Oh hell, I guess I'd better sell my basses, too. Damn it, now I've gotta quit my band! Jeremy, we may not get good prices for our stuff, as it's antiquated and not needed anymore. What a pile of poopy kaka this has turned out to be. Maybe I'll take up stamp collecting now. Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banta Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I guess a lot of it boils down to the type of music you prefer. For what I like, a keyboard can't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 By the way, on the list of bands with sequenced or keyboard basslines, I'm wondering how many of them perform live? Without a bassplayer? Just wondering. I'm also wondering why there are sample cd's available featuring the bass sounds of the top players if a minimoog can create such a superior sound. I used to own one. The bands I played with hated it. But of course we're just a bunch of old whiners. On our way out, just like the dinosaurs. Or the viola da gamba players. Viola da Gamba is a six string fretted bass instrument of the eighteenth century, now only seen in groups doing historical renditions of early music. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: Our posts crossed in the mail. Thanks for your list, Miles. I am defeated. My basses are for sale. I've wasted the last 35 years of my life.Don't put words in my mouth. You're the one who criticized bands NOT using electric bass, I merely pointed out that everything is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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