Jay J. Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 I currently own a GK 400RB III 2X10 combo amp that pushes about 150 watts of power by itself. it has always worked great for practices. but now my band is going to start gigging soon. I'm woundering if this will be enough power. do you go mostly through PA or do I need some more wattage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornbread_medhotmail.com Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 More than likely you will be going more through the PA, either miced or direct (line out from your amp or a DI box). As long as you like the tone out of your amp, you should be good. You may want to look for more power further down the road if practice volume becomes a little diminished. I used to gig with my 80-watt Trace combo all the time and never had any trouble. It had an amazing tone and I was satisfied, but, I needed more at practice, so I opted for my Super Redhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hepnurecords Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Yeah, playing small to mid-sized rooms with smallish stages your fine. As noted the PA will do the heavy work. As the rooms get bigger you may run into a problem with stage volume. HUGE stage and you rig is 20 feet from where you want to be - stage front of course. Untill you hit really big rooms many soundmen won't much bass in the monitors. This is when a more powerfull rig is nice. That went on longer than I'd hoped. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Add up the watts of all the other amps on the stage. Double it. That's how much power you need. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 I'd probably get higher wattage down the road (I like Jeremys rule of thumb , but for now, you can let the PA reinforce your sound, if required. There's a way you can determine if you need to do both. When you get to your gig, go ahead and patch yourself into the PA, but don't use the PA sound yet (everyone off, except vocals). During your final stage volume check (part of a song, or whatever you do to make sure you all can hear each other and are happy with that), have a band friend along to be in the audience area and tell you all what instruments are sounding weak out there with just your stage volume. If the bass is weak to your friend in the audience area, THEN add some signal thru the PA. (If it's the bass, you've probably now determined you'll need more wattage at some time). If the bass is sounding good to your friend in the audience area, then you DON'T need to touch the PA control for your bass. Which in turn probably means your wattage is good enough. Hope this is helpful. You'll probably determine you amp wattage needs and PA question within the first three gigs you do. Just have fun with it! PARTY!!! Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Originally posted by fig: . . . If the bass is sounding good to your friend in the audience area, then you DON'T need to touch the PA control for your bass. Which in turn probably means your wattage is good enough.This is one way of thinking about it. Personally, I prefer getting my stage volume just loud enough to perform, and let the soundguy take care of the room mix. Remember, what's coming out of your cab when you're 10 feet away (with your speakers aimed at your knees) sounds quite different than what the audience hears 50 feet away. Rule o' thumb: The more signal you allow the soundguy to work with, the better he can make you sound. If your stage volume is loud enough to fill a room, then the soundguy won't/can't do anything for you. Then only half of your screaming fans (the half in front of your side of the stage) will experience your sweet tone in their faces. Of course, give me a couple of beers and I always seem turn the big knob a click or two to the right. Oops. Nothin like a beer buzz w/ slight breeze being blown your way from your cab. scootdog Oh, and as far as the original question . . . see JeremyC's rule of thumb. Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Yep... The old rule of thumb seems to be a good one, as stated above. (Add up all the other amps on stage, and then double it.) In my band I'm up against a 100 watt Dual Rectifier, and a 55 watt Laney. If I double that it's 310 watts that I get as the magic number. I have a 540 watt (@4 ohms) GK1001RB, but through my 8 ohm 4x10 cabinet it only puts out 340 watts. But as you can see by the rule of thumb for bass amp wattage, that's 'just right', as Goldie Locks would say. And it is! Personally, however, I've never been satisfied in rock or blues situation, with anything less than 300 watts. But that's just me. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 I've beaten this point to death, but remember that volume is a (albeit not linear) combination of wattage AND the number and size of speakers you are driving. Don't forget the rest of the band, especially on a loud stage. Like Hepnurecords noted, bass is never expecially prominent on your monitors (provided you are even given one). You are a member of a band, and the whole band neads to hear the bass; make sure that they can. One key to this (besides sheer volume) is to set your entire band's tones so that the stage mix (amps only) is a good mix w/ respect to frequency and volume. I'll second the aforementioned rule-of-thumb, but mention that that should be the lower limit of your amp's power if you play in a rock setting. I think the default value for this number is around 400 watts for a head. Chances are you will eventually play with two guitarists, and they'll both have 100 watt amps (or higher). Unless the tone's killer, don't buy a head with less than a 400 watt into 4 ohm power amp as an upgrade to your existing amp. But remember that bassists can always use a PA power amp as a big power source (if needed), so don't overlook small amps if the tone they give is "the tone". ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3scott Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 I GO THROUGH THE PA DIRECT THROUGH MY HEAD. IN MY ROCK BAND I HAD TROUBLE KEEPING UP IN PRACTICE WITH 200 WATTS. I ADDED ANOTHER CABINET AND AM PUSHING 350 AT 4 OHMS. SO FAR ITS GREAT AT PRACTICE AND MY FIRST GIG IN OVER A YEAR IS TOMARROW SO WELL SEE AT THE GIG. TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, SO FAR 350 SEEMS GOOD TO ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3scott Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 sorry for the mess above... didnt realize my caps were on til i posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 I'm always torn... I love the sound of my 300 watt Eden Traveler through my SWR 4x10 cab. The tone of that Eden head is as good as it gets, but more and more lately, I've been going for the more 'clinical' tone of my GK-1001RB head, just because 540 watts gives me the muscle power to always be as loud as I want in relation to the two VERY loud guitarists in my band (Mesa Dual Rectifier, and a Laney). Of course, both my amps an cabs stacked together is like driving a big block V8, but it's just too much gear to lug around, all the time. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.P. Non-Prod. Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 I certainly noticed the difference between my 100w fender 15' combo, and the power that came from that same fender's preamp going into one side of a mackie 1400i power amp(500w @ 4ohms, 300w @ 8 ohms) going into a Peavey 15' black widow 4 ohm cab. I agree with the things stated above. Headroom rules. So far I'm very happy with it but I can see myself going with a lighter digital power amp in the future. I like the idea of keeping my rig easy to move and efficient. The power amp weighs 36 lbs. "Don't Ask Me I'm Just The Bassplayer" UBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Definitely consider a GK-1001RB if light weight power is what you're after... http://www.gallien-krueger.com/PRODUCTS/HEADS/1001RB/1001rb.html It's only 18 lbs and gives you 540 watts @ 4 ohms, or 590 in bi-amp mode. Only two rack spaces high, too. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowbell Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 I read on the Warwick site (Bass Survival 101) that you need to multiply the guitarist's watts by 4 and thats how much power you need to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 that'll work for one guitar, as will total sum times two for two guitars. In the end, at least 400 watts will do you well ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Yep... I have a much simpler rule... 400 watts minimum, with an efficient cab or cabs, is my personal requirement for the rock, funk, or blues gigs which I play. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 That was my rule- I just provided justification for it ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Well... May I re-phrase... I subscribe to the 'The Matt 400 watt minimum theory'. Cause Matt knows dad skinny on dat! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornbread_medhotmail.com Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 400 is a good benchmark to start. I say the more the merrier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george costanza Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 It does take more power to amplify bass pitches than higher range instruments just to get the same loudness level but this is easily overdone in some situations. After I finally learned to actually trust them, I realized that engineers can often be your friend. Get an adequate power level to achieve a good tone without getting close to the amp's limit; when it's necessary to be louder, let the sound engineer's do their magic. [An added benefit is that once you get a reliable sound level, you won't need to gank with the volume for different rooms---thereby bringing one less variable into the equation.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 Hey Edendude, I'm just being facetious- I thought we were friends, anyway... I'll just go back to skulking in my studio, next to my basses, where I belong. ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted December 24, 2002 Share Posted December 24, 2002 No I was serious, bro... You said it first, and it is a good rule of thumb. It shall be known as 'Matt's Rule of Bass Amp Power' by me from now on. After all, all those other rules of Physics were named after some dude, right?! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 So I could call this physics, huh? Now I wonder why I'm in engineering when I could study physics by playing bass. Excuse me, I've got to go study. Merry Christams! ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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