Sound issues during a gig

[TKE96]

Here is my situation:

We had some problems on our first gig. 4 out of 8 lights worked, we started 30 min late, due to our sound guy sucking out at setting up his own gear properly, then spent the first 2 hours "trying to get the the sound right" before the kinks were finally worked out. Finally in the 3rd set, the levels were set properly.

 

The manager that night was ticked at us for some reason...I can't understand why (sarcasm running wild). She suggested to our lead signer that the band dump everybody, including the sound guy, but me and him. She loved the performance that I put on. That was a real pump to my ego for playing and signing, since it has been less then a year that I have played the bass! One year comes up in a month!

 

My question:

Do any of you run your own sound off to the side during a gig. We are considering this, and I would be the sound guy since I could just play some root notes while adjusting. The only problem would be the lack of hearing the sound from the crowd during a tune. Any comments/ideas/remedies?

[Jason Hoyt]

Why are extracurricular duties always pawned off on the bass player? I used to run our bands sound for smaller gigs, and I always thought it was a bit of a pain in the arse. Everyone wants this or that up in the mix, the drummer can never seem to get his levels right, and the singer can never hear enough of himself.. etc etc etc. I personally think its a waste of time. Besides, quite honestly, for small gigs, everyone should be able to get thier own sound/volume at the right levels on thier own gear. The singer shouyld have his own PA the drummer will be heard no matter what, the guitarist(s) will turn up to be heard over the drummer (consequently causing the singer to turn up), and you will hope you have enough wattage to be heard at all... just my two cents...

[Cup]

Make gigs sound as close to practice as possible,

sound guys are there (in my opinion) to make sure the audience hears the band at their best. Taking up a job outside your own will distract you from what you're there for.

 

CupMcMali

[Edendude]

We do it both ways...

 

Our frontman owns an 800 watt per channel Ross amp, and a huge pair of Ross PA bins. I have a 14 channel Mackie mixer, and we all own the usual arsenal of SM57s and SM58s. We rent monitors and do our own sound for a lot of small to medium-sized rooms, and contract out for the larger rooms.

 

We do have a big advantage, however...

 

One of our guitarists is a professionally schooled audio engineer and record producer. Best asset a band can have, let me tell ya. That mother has some serious damn ears!

 

We constantly get rave comments about our live sound.

[TKE96]

It isn't a ton of stuff to use. We have 2 mics, an acoustic guitar, an electric patched in, another patch for an electric guitar and harmonica, two drum mics. My bass amp provides enough sound so that isn't an issue, and two monitors. We channel stuff through a mackie CFX12 and the monitors through a Fender Passport system. We do plan to record on a AKAI dig recorder, so that is just a patch before from the board and my amp then just the record button. I mean if worse comes to worse, in a song I could just hit some roots and adjust accordingly on the board. Does this seem realistic?

[MattC]

The sound can lead to too many issues with players egos, and if a band member does the sound, these issues stay within the band. I think that you should find a guy that knows sound and can use his equipment efficiently, and actually knows your songs. Then, perhaps, you should find someone else who knows sound, and have the two of them set up your PA. It will give you less to worry about while you are playing.

 

And make sure that your soundguy gets there before the band, or at least very early, so that the PA is well set before you begin to soundcheck.

[BNC]

Keep it simple. The more gear and people you have in your 'road crew' the more screw ups there will be. In the bands that I have played in, the singer/guitar player was the sound man, mainly because he owned the gear. I also use the 'you don't need to mic me' amp, and we all got pretty good at setting our own levels. This is something that can take time if you are new to gigging, new venue, and/or new band. I say try to make it work with just the band and save your money unless you really really need a sound man.

BNC

PS: I have played large shows that had soundmen, and I still prefer to do it myself.

[Bill C from Nashvegas]

None of the bands that I've been in (for the last 20+ years) paid a sound guy. I mean, when the band's only making 250 bucks a night or so, that extra $$ really counts. Also, most of the clubs I've been are so small that a huge PA is unncecessary. The amps on stage can always produce enough volume to fill the club, so it's just a matter of adjusting our volumes properly. The PA is primarily for vocals, both for the audience and our own monitors. Of course running everything into the mixer would be better but these are bar or private party gigs, not arena gigs.

 

I do have a couple of PA's, a small setup and a larg setup, and I have run sound for other bands for their events (and gotten paid!! ) but that's usually because many fledgling bands don't have a grand or more to shell out for a PA.

 

But many years ago I realized that having my own PA is very beneficial. It can help if you're auditioning for another band, since the more you can bring to the table the better (but I usually don't offer my PA until I get comfortable with the band). And it helps give me a comfort level, if you will...Suppose you're in a hypothetical band and the singer has the PA. What if you have a dispute with the singer and need to fire him? If the singer knows "hey, they can't fire me, I've got the PA" then he has leverage over the other band memebers.

 

What this somewhat longwinded post boils down to: I advocate saving up, buying your own PA stuff, and learning how to run it yourself. It's really not that tough once you get a few basic concepts down. The PA doesn't need to be a large rack setup: a simple six or eight channel powered mixer that cnn run both mains and monitors, a few mikes, a set of main speakers and a pair of monitors.

 

YMMV, my 2 cents worth, take the advice for what it cost ya, all the usual disclaimers.

[MattC]

Just out of curiosity, what do you all consider to be "small shows" such that you would do your own PA?

 

I'd be more than happy to do PA is the show is small enough to need only vox in the mains, but as soon as all the instruments go into the PA, you will be much better off having someone else do it.

[Tom Capasso]

posted by bassape: Why are extracurricular duties always pawned off on the bass player?

Some time back we had a thread about the roles that bass players have in our bands, and how we frequently take on/get stuck with many extra jobs. It's because many of us are "foundation" people (personality as well as musicality), so we do what is required.

 

My band has a small PA for vocals. I run it (set up, breakdown, adjusting). My only problem is that you need another set of ears during soundcheck (or a good wireless system). Most places require some adjustments of speaker position and EQ - you can't hear that from the stage area. I have been the "ears" for a friend's band.

 

Whether you have a sound person or not is a skill/economic decision. If someone is part of the band or a hired gun, they have responsibilities. Just like anyone else, they have a job to do, and you can get someone else (or do it yourself) if the job isn't being done within your expectations. Be clear and upfront about what those expectations are (write them down). Coming on time isn't something I should have to tell anyone...

 

Tom

[The Bear Jew]

As just about everyone here has already mentioned, running sound for a small gig isn't really a big deal, and most of the time you only need to put vocals through the PA.

 

Most bigger places have a house PA, which is run by a soundperson who works there, and they usually don't want anyone else to handle their board, so that's not really a worry. If they suck, they usually don't keep their jobs very long, so chances are you won't have to deal with them for more than one or two shows anyway.

 

When we tour, we bring a little PA with us just in case we need it. It's a 300-watt, 4-channel PA head and two cabinets with horns and 15" speakers. We bought it used for $200. We also use it for rehearsals, so we know what it can do.

 

Basically, we just place the PA speakers somewhere slightly behind us and mess with the levels until we can hear our vocals mixed in with the rest of the band. As musicians, we listen to each other, and if it's hard to hear something, we regulate ourselves until everything is clear. It's not rocket science -- just listen.

[randy clay]

I like to bring PA to a gig, because I know what to expect. I sing in most of the gigs, so I'm there is a selfish component to that decision.

 

I'm really in favor of monitors and try to put the bass and everything else in the PA so everyone can hear everything. It does take more work, but for me the payoff is it sounds better. I've actually worked some jobs where I used my Carvin 2x10 as the monitors and didn't even have an amp on stage, straight into the PA. It helped that I was running the PA, but it worked fine. I could hear ( it sounded pretty good to me), the audience could hear, and the rest of the band could hear too.

 

Of course, the best of both worlds is where you get paid extra for bringing PA , but even when I'm not, I'd rather go to the trouble and have a better presentation. It is a lot of work, and headache, but I think it's worth it.

 

Just my 2 cents....