Code Writers

[Wewus432]

There's a lot of computer savvy people on this forum. If I wanted to get into writing audio apps what computer language should I learn, C++? What languages can you write code in?

[Rod S]

PS - I should read the fucking post properly first ;) C++ would be my choice too.

[JimK]

Seeing as I'm a software engineer and not guitar player during the day :( , I'll offer an opinion. C++ is probably your best bet. If you're developing for Microsoft, then C++ will give you the most access to the OS (the API is intended to support C++). I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, but I will admit that they've made it very easy to build user interfaces using their C++ environment. And yes, you can build interfaces with Visual Basic, but VB won't give you as much access to the OS and doesn't have nearly as many language features as C++. Are you thinking of accessing the sound card? DirectX supports C++ the best. If you're developing for Mac, then I'm not sure (but would guess C++) because I haven't developed on that platform. By the way, the latest stuff I've been working on is the brains for an embedded real-time countermeasure system. I'd much rather work for Cakewalk, but the commute to Boston from NH is a killer.

[RobT]

I'm a former code warrior by day. Nowadays I spend my time designing, tuning and specing out databases (writing SQL, DDL etc) for applications of various design flavors (Java, VB, C++, web based, COBOL, batch, etc). If you are going to write audio apps your best bet would be C++. Use an ANSI standard C++. Borland's Pascal based Delphi product is just as fast as C++ and cheaper too! It will give you the most flexibility in accessing memory, the sound card and most MIDI/MPU-401 type things you'd want to do. If you are not going to do any cross-platform development (other OS's such as Mac, Linux, Unix, BeOs etc) and are going to stick to the Window$ platform get a current copy of Micro$oft's Visual C++ or spring for Visual $tudio. Be forwarned it is pricey. Stay away from C# like the plague for audio apps. RobT

[stephen_hazel]

Hi. I use MS C++ version 6. It's really your ONLY choice. There's little out there (with MAYBE the exception of delphi) that'll even work. Ideally, you'ld learn this stuff: 1) c++ 2) windows user interface APIs, etc, etc, etc 3) windows midi API (either the old multimedia midi API - which I use) or DirectMusic (which I'm still considering learning) 4) all the gory stuff about how to parse a midi file, how to read midiin, how to organize all your song data, how to show a piano roll, how to send midiout... etc... So you're in for a steeeep (yet cool) learning curve. Make sure you read up at: [url=http://www.borg.com/~jglatt]Midi Technical Fanatics Brainwashing Center[/url] Feel free to ask me any more detailed Qs... :wave: And I'm -trying- to get a general midi developers yahoogroup going at: [url=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MidiDev/]MidiDev YahooGroup[/url] Please join it (whine whine :cry: )... I'm working on a freeware little midi sequencer. I just set up the yahoogroup to share ideas with other midi developers. If you have any ideas about what to put into a BRAND SPANKIN new sequencer, please let me know... :) But it really isn't too far along yet, so don't expect much of it yet... :rolleyes: ...Steve

[BassGuy]

Wewus, you might be better off joining an existing project (like Steve's) instead of trying to learn everything on your own.

[Wewus432]

Thanks guys, I realize this isn't something you learn overnight. I'm just the kind of person who likes to know how the things I'm using work. One thing I'd like to build is just a very simple mixer to hold soft synths and effects so I could use them live. There is stuff out there to do that but all the apps I've seen are a lot more complicated than they need to be to do that simple job.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]There's a lot of computer savvy people on this forum. If I wanted to get into writing audio apps what computer language should I learn, C++? What languages can you write code in?[/b][/quote]How old are you?

[Wewus432]

I prefer not to be defined or stereotyped by my age. I AM THE ALL TIME-SPACE WEWUS I float in the ethers of the outer stratosphere collecting energy for the ultimate revolution of mankind. I am also a very good badmitton player.

[Cowfingers]

C++ is great, though if your going out to but a compiler, my recomendation is avoid the Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 - The Borland version is far easier to use IMO (especially when it comes to De-bugging etc.)

[Wrave]

I just posted my anti-MS rant in another message but I suggest you install Linux and use the great cross-platform compiler "gcc" they provide. For about $60 you can have the Linux OS, all of the apps (sadly except audio which is minumal in Linux) and utilities plus gcc which will give you C, C++, Pascal, Ada, fortran, assembler, and others not to mention Perl, Tck/Tk, PHP, a couple of different development environments like glade and QT Designer, a good debugger. By the way, gcc is available for the MS platform free for the downloading. Try Linux, save your money for audio equipment.

[D. Gauss]

can someone tell me how to make the clock on my VCR stop flashing 12:00? :) -d. gauss

[Wewus432]

I don't know. I did a little research on Linux, it seems like you have to already know how to write code to use it. Plus some of those people are worse than the cult of Mac fanatics. :D Thanks for all the tips!

[bleen]

Wewus, Check this out: [url=http://www.codewarrioru.com/]CodeWarriorU[/url] They have courses in Java, C, C++, Perl, etc. Cheers, Don

[JimK]

[quote] can someone tell me how to make the clock on my VCR stop flashing 12:00? [/quote]The software engineer's solution: unplug the VCR :D

[Wewus432]

Thanks for that link to CodeWarriorU dkg! I'll be checking that out.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]I prefer not to be defined or stereotyped by my age. [/b][/quote]That's the inverse of my point. If you really want a good chance of getting to a point where you're coding at the hardware level you'd better be getting started at a pretty young age.

[Dan South]

The problem with C++ is that it's not portable. In other words, if you write an application for Windows, you can't just make a few changes and recompile if for Mac. The reasons for this are too numerous to go into, but the main one is that C++ uses pre-defined chunks of code as a starting point for your own programs. These building blocks are called objects. But the objects that you can use on Windows is not compatible with Mac and vice versa. This is why it takes so much effort to build cross platform apps. Java sought to change all of this. It comes prepackaged with all of its own objects, and they're ready to be run on (almost) any platform: Windows, Mac, Solaris, AIX, HP/UX, LINUX, BeOS, even Palm. But Bill and Scott hate each other, so Bill is threatening to stop supporting Java. (C# is Bill's Behringer-style Java knock off.) I don't know whether Java was ever considered for audio apps. It would have made life a lot easier for everyone. Microsoft Visual C++ is the most wretched development environment that you could ever imagine. It's like trying to build a rocket with Amish woodworking tools. Why do people put themselves through that kind of pain?

[Cowfingers]

What does anyone know are the main differences between C# and Visual J++? Mann, in my university at the moment, the Borland C++ licence ran out so we are forced to develop on Visual C++ 6. ARRGH i hate it so bad.

[Wewus432]

There is one audio app that I believe is written in Java, it is Arturia Storm which is a very cool French program with Reason like capabilities. I'll have do some more research on that. Chip: Learning computer programming does seem like a bit of an imposing task but I don't think there is a minimum or maximum age to learn anything. I personally know people who have gone to school for 4 years and now have jobs in programming making over $60,000. I'm sure I could do the same if I chose to. I'm really just trying to learn something on the subject so I can do simple things and ask intelligent questions and have no intention of becoming an expert.

[Cowfingers]

by the way, what ever language, The 'Sams Teach Yourself in 21 Days' books are excellent.

[Wewus432]

I have looked at the MicroSoft C++ program and it does seem overly complicated, maybe that's not the way to go. I have heard that Java isn't fast enough to run audio apps and yet there is that program I spoke of, Arturia Storm. I really don't want to learn a bunch of crap I'll never use, so I'll keep researching this subject, please let me know about any alternatives to C++ for audio work. I know there is some development going on with Linux so maybe I'll give that another look.

[Wrave]

The Wewus wrote: [quote] I don't know. I did a little research on Linux, it seems like you have to already know how to write code to use it. [/quote]This is simply not true. I use the Mandrake distribution right now and it's installation is pretty much automatic. I started with Linux back a few years ago and a basic installation of the Slackware dist. could be daunting for a PC neophyte at that time. But great steps have been made and today it is possible to install Linux along with Windoze. I prefer to give Linux it's own partition and make a dual boot system this way I have the audio apps in my Win boot and everything else in Linux. Anyway, don't let the "hackers" reputation of Linux scare you off. I would not hesitate to take two complete PC novices and give one a Win (or Mac) machine and the other a Linux system and set them about a list of common tasks. I have no doubt that the Linux user would not only accomplish the tasks with less effort and in less time but over a period of use, the Linux user would end up more "computer savvy" than the Win(Mac) user. Jeez, they've even got a GUI on Linux now-a-days. (Actually, they've got about five or six [maybe even more by now] to choose from, one which looks enough like the MS Win interface to make a new Linux convert feel pretty much at home. Hey, if ya don't want to try it for free, (I live in the sticks and a download is out of the question due to my modem connection.) maybe ya can risk $10 bucks or so. Here's a link to [url=http://cart.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart]Cheapbytes[/url] . If ya check 'em out, I think you'll see there is no better software deal anywhere!!! Good Luck and most of all HAVE FUN!

[Wewus432]

Thanks Wrave: That was a great post. I needed to hear that, because I am inclined towards an open source OS. I just look at all the amazing audio apps that are available on Windows and go WHY would I spend that much time learning another operating system. My heart DOS belong there. Sheet that's wierd DOS is does with the vowel removed, I never noticed that. END OF POST.

[JimK]

Let me throw in a few more comments. First, C++ is portable. There's an ANIS standard for it. I've written C++ code and cross-compiled to several platforms. What is not portable is Microsoft's Foundation Classes (MFC). If you create an application in Visual C++ using the app wizard, and specify that app to use MFC, then no, you won't be able to port that app to another platform. Wewus, have you done any programming? If not, then the first thing you need to do is take a class (a local community college would be a good place to start). C++ is a great language, but it's not a good one to start with. To quote Bjarne Stroustrup, the guy who invented C++, "[the programming language] C let's you blow your foot off. C++ tries to make this harder to do. But, when things do go wrong, you'll take your whole leg off." The reasons I suggested Visual C++ are: 1. There's a ton of easily obtained info on how to use the Microsoft OS to your advantage. Just take a look in the computer section of a book store. 2. Odds are, you'll find lots of audio apps on the internet already written in VC++. You can use one of these as a starting point. 3. Despite opinions, VC++ is a great tool for building user interfaces (without which, your app would be useless). I've built UIs using lots of stuff, and VC++ is the easiest (and no, I'm not a fan of Microsoft). Finally, I agree that you're never too old to learn something new. Just be aware: writing software is time consuming. I'd much rather spend my time playing/writing music. You can write and record a song a lot faster then you can write a useful program. Just my opinions.