salvaging a track

[Eric VB]

All right, I got the idea for this from Moe's intro.

Moe Monsarrat said: I get calls to (of all things) come into a studio where a cd project is ongoing.They have an entire track recorded with all the instruments & vocals, but the producer has decided that he now hates the melody & lyrics.They take the vocals out before I get there & my job is to listen to the track & write a new song to go with what's there. Kind of a last ditch effort to salvage a track. A lot of times it works pretty good, but you can't really wait for inspiration.

So far my experiences have been mostly with demo tracks, so not quite the same as what Moe's been doing. Still, I think the process is similar, even if the stakes aren't.

 

A did a quick arrangement for a friend's lyrics. Some parts went over better than others. We've identified the parts that need fixing, but I haven't gotten back around to it yet.

 

I must say that working with a DAW makes things a little less painful. I had to extend a section, so I just click-and-dragged things over to make room. Nice! Piece of cake to wipe a vocal track and record a new one. That kind of thing. I'll try to splice in the new vocal section first, just to see how it works, but I'll probably have to redo the entire vocal track to make it seamless.

 

Has anyone else done this sort of thing? Maybe with your own songs, as you're writing them? Hate some passage and rip out the melody and/or lyrics, or totally divorce a melody/lyric from an arrangement?

 

The hardest part for me is erasing my "music memory" of the original version(s). One composition I originally wrote in 1985 has three themes in it now that correspond to three major rewrites of the lyrics/melody since inception. It was hard to let them go, and they work well enough together, IMO, so I let them coexist.

[Moe Monsarrat]

Ric, since you already know how I do the rewrite on tracks,here's a little trick I use from time to time: Pick a song you like. The one you can't get out of your head. It can even be one of your own. Now, make up new lyrics to the same PATTERN of syllables. Make up a new melody & presto, new song. If you can't shake the original melody, give the lyrics to another songwriter. It's like a sewing pattern for a shirt. You just pick the fabric.

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by Moe Monsarrat:

Ric, since you already know how I do the rewrite on tracks,here's a little trick I use from time to time: Pick a song you like. The one you can't get out of your head. It can even be one of your own. Now, make up new lyrics to the same PATTERN of syllables. Make up a new melody & presto, new song. If you can't shake the original melody, give the lyrics to another songwriter. It's like a sewing pattern for a shirt. You just pick the fabric.

Same pattern? Is that the same as rhythm? Or more along the lines of syllable counts or something?

[Moe Monsarrat]

Well, it's the rhythm AND syllable count. In other words your new lyrics fit exactly in the space the old ones occupied.

[Trucks]

Friend of mine just came back from seeing family in St Lucia, he brought back some CD's the locals were really into. Each CD was basically 12 tracks of the same music with a different singer singing his own lyrics over each one. Now that kind of takes it to the extremes of nonsense I reckon

[miroslav]

It's hard to shoehorn new lyrics into an existing song.

I don't mean it's hard to do...I mean it's hard for me to accept that as a solution....if it was my song.

 

Also...if on top of the lyrics...you dump the melody too...then you got a whole new song...and the pre-recorded backing tracks turn into a "Band-In-A-Box" kind of thing.

How the hell does the original songwriter live with that kind of hack job?

I mean...you might as well just write a NEW song.

 

Just recently I tried altering the lyrics of one of my finished songs because I thought the meaning/message was a bit too "dark" in a couple of spots...and I wanted to try and make the song take a slightly "lighter" direction.

Well...yeah, easy enough fit new words into the pattern and rhyme of the original ones...

...but no matter how I tired to swallow those changesthey just would not go down.

So...I left the "dark" mood in there!

Which only further supports my belief that every song has a life of it's own...and you can't hack it into something else...and still be true to the original concept.

 

But I guess if someone is desperate to just make something "work"...and not lose a bunch of already recorded backing tracks...then do what you gotta do...

take the money, and just walk away quickly when you are finished...and don't look back.

 

[Trucks]

I agree. But you are however coming from the perspective of composing the music and also writing the lyrics. What about when you get 2 cats together, one does the music, the other adds in some lyrics that he sees fit... I guess it could then be Ok to scrap the lyrics and start over??

[miroslav]

I've never collaborated...well, on one song.

A friend of mine had some "lyrics"...more like poetry. So he asked if I could use them for a song.

First I had to rework his stuff into something that useable in the context of a song.

I used like...2/3 of his stuff for the verses and tweaked a few lines/words so that it made some more sense.

Then I came up with a chorus to help anchor the message.

 

I only wrote the music after getting the meaning/message down...so as I reworked his words....the music came out too.

 

I guess someone else can just hear the music and then come up with their lyrics and/or melody...but still...that's not the same as when there is a finished song...and then someone else comes in...throws out half of it (either the music or the words)...and then drops in his part...and there it is.

 

I'm wondering if the original writer had any input...or was it more like, "Please make something, anything out of this, so we don't have to scrap the existing recorded tracks!"

 

...???

 

[Moe Monsarrat]

The original writer is in deep poo poo by this time. What they are trying to do is make something out of a track that has been deemed basically useless. What the original writer did is still his for better or worse, but the TRACK has now been hijacked for other purposes. I never use the melody or words he wrote & the producer is calling the shots so it doesn't much matter what the original writer thinks. It's a last resort, but they won't accept just "anything". If they were going to do that, they wouldn't have to call me.

[miroslav]

I have to ask...with all this jockeying around trying to make something out of a "useless" track...

...was there ever any consideration, or possibility, for the writer to just offer up something else/new...and just rerecord that...?

 

And...I find it a bit odd (though I dont know all details of this deal)...that the producer is calling all the shots WITHOUT any input from the writer...?

Is the writer JUST the writer...or is he also the artist or one of the artists/performers of this project...?

 

Heck...maybe I'm being unrealistic...but if it was my music...I would be dammed to let the producer literally cut me off from any part of the decision making process.

Even if I was just the songwriter...I would still want to have some say about how far one of my songs could get chopped up.

 

Also...if these tracks are unusable...how is that the writers fault...?

I would think that any producer worth his weight in salt would know if a song was worthy of recording BEFORE the first take was done.

Those decisions are made during the pre-production phaseNOT after you track the whole damn thing.

 

[Moe Monsarrat]

Miroslav, allow me to tell you how this deal works. These sort of things generally happen when an artist is NOT writing his or her own stuff & has been assigned a producer by a record company. The producer & the artist usually choose the songs from stock provided by writers under contract to a publishing company the label owns or is associated with. In many cases, the artist has never sung the material before. For the most part these are young artists making their 1st serious album & so are amenable to whatever the producer/record company wants. Sometimes a song just doesn't fit,is hard for the artist to sing or for some reason doesn't work out.If you've ever made many cds, you know that sometimes 15 tracks are recorded & only 10-12 actually make it to the cd. Now we have a track that is not being used at all. You can ONLY copyright the words & melody, not the chord changes. You cannot even copyright a title. I can write a song called "Stairway To Heaven" & as long as it doesn't contain the words or melody of Led Zep's tune, it's legal. I guess you could say it's a crappy thing to do to the original writer, but it's reality. It happens all the time. Also, it's not a matter of "fault". The writer still has his rights to his song. In many cases the writer who is under contract will not be aware the artist is doing the song until it makes the cd (or not). For example, it's kinda like writing a 16 bar blues song. You can't copyright the chord changes of the blues(or anything else). We all know what the changes are & have always been. Now we just write a new tune to fit them. Anyway, both the artist & the producer have to approve of the new tune. It's not being shoved down anyones throat. It's just a last ditch effort to create something useful. Sometimes, it works.

[miroslav]

I know the copyright do's and donts...

...and I can understand an artist NOT fitting well with a particular song that someone else penned....and all the other processes you mention.

 

What I'm not fully understanding in this type of situation...is how dose it go so far as to have an entire song tracked...

and only THEN realizing that it isnt going to work for that particular artist...hence this last ditch effort to redo the melody/lyrics while utilizing the existing backing tracks...???

 

Were these songs being tracked independent of the artistwho only came in after the fact to lay down the vocalsand then for the very first time heard the songs and realized some didnt fit him?

 

Thats what I meant about the pre-production phase

I would expect all involvedincluding the artistwould audition the songs BEFORE engaging the musicians and studio to do any tracking on any of them.

 

How did it happen?

 

 

[Moe Monsarrat]

It's a good question, but I'm always called after the fact & I'm never allowed to hear the original melody or lyrics until after I'm finished with the new ones. So,weird as it may seem I only know they didn't dig it, not why. I've never had to salvage one of my own song tracks because,like you say, I already know what's up with my material. Apparently that's not always the case anymore. I think some of it has to do with the cheap price of recording equipment and/or studio time. Used to be there was only a few places to record in most cities other than real big ones & time was very expensive. You DID your pre production work because you couldn't afford to do it in the studio. Now everybody & their brother has a studio & most think they're also producers. Time is cheap & they use it accordingly. I guess that's how this sort of thing happens. I'm doing a cd with an artist right now who is a great singer, but has rarely performed in public. That used to be totally out of the question. No record company would back an artist with no stage experience and no following. Now they just go in & start grinding it out one track at a time. Go figure, but there's a lot more sessions now.