Lyrics

[Powerboss]

Where oh where can one get ideas on lyrics?

 

I've got all kinds of music in my head and recorded but when it comes to putting words to it....BLANK.

 

Any suggestions?

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

The usual suggestions...

 

maybe you have nothing to say (in words) so get someone else to do it. (After all, where would Elton have gotten without Bernie?)

 

If you do want to write good lyrics, start with one of Pat Patison's books.

 

Bill

[YourMotherShouldKnow]

It depends on what you're trying to do. I'm in the same boat.

 

I've found reading lots of books and building my vocabulary to help. Still, you have to know why certain ideas and phrases get to people's emotions. I'm trying to learn.

[g.]

Having ideas and feelings and stories to tell is first. What words you used to describe them - or to describe their silhouette - is secondary. But thw words are also the vehicle for stylistic expansion. So it does help to know a lot of different ways to rearrange and group them.

 

Sometimes words are just sounds with toffee or razor clarity - or frames in a movie for the mind, flicking by, flickering on the wall of a dying day.

 

Blah blah blah...

[John O. Lennon]

& if yer uncertain what you mean to say...you could wind up with something like

 

"Always know/no sometimes think it's me

but you know I know & it's alright"

 

It's not unknown to write a song about having nothing to say..."G'Morning! G'Morning! G'Morning! AH!"

[shniggens]

Check this site out - http://studio-central.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=12206

 

Some good pointers in there to get you started. I suck at writing lyrics, but I'm learning. And I find I am getting a little better the more I do it.

 

It's also good to get some outside critisism from a friend, and don't be afraid to rewrite.

 

I find that spontaneous lyrics usually come out better than the ones that were forced. So if you have a line that you are struggling with, have your wife, friend, mom, etc. spit a line out for you. You'd be suprised they might give you the perfect line!

[Sean Eldon]

I try not to force lyrics out of myself. If I can't come up with something, I forget about it for a couple of days until the lyrics just form themselves from what I see day-to-day. I lead an interesting life, so I'd like to believe that my lyrics are on the same page.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Originally posted by LanceM:

 

I've found reading lots of books and building my vocabulary to help. Still, you have to know why certain ideas and phrases get to people's emotions. I'm trying to learn.

I think that you need to have a story to tell, before you worry about the words to tell it.

 

In my opinion, you just write. Don't edit, keep writting until you are written out, THEN go back and try to edit the result into some sort of song. If you go line by line while writing, you're pretty much going to kill the emotion and probably loose some great ideas.

 

If you are concerned about trying to use other people's phrases, when will you tell your own story?

 

Bill

[Lee Flier]

I agree with Bill. Trying to write by learning which words and phrases move OTHER people's emotions seems bass ackwards to me. Songs that really move other people are those that reveal the WRITER'S emotions.

[YourMotherShouldKnow]

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

If you are concerned about trying to use other people's phrases, when will you tell your own story?

 

Bill

I don't mean we should swipe other writer's content. I'm trying to identify the framework that the my favorite writers use to tug at the emotions.

 

There are techniques that Victor Hugo used in writing Les Miserables that evokes all kinds of emotions in the interested reader. There must be techniques in lyric writing that accomplish the same goal.

 

I agree that you have to write a lot to get better at it. Where I am currectly stuck is in my framework or purpose. I've worked hours on things knowing full well it's going nowhere because I sense that there is something wrong in my framework. As my old, dead buddy Aristotle says:

 

"The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold."

 

If my outline/framework is inferior there's no amount of writing that can save it.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

I don't know how to write lyrics in a framework. I write reviews, prose, owners manuals, etc etc within a framework. I write lyrics from inside. Just sort of spew it all out, then try to make some sense of it later.

 

One of my favorite songs, by Bill Deasey...

 

"Raised on words like "Punshment" and "God will get you if you don't do what you're told."

Nuns turn children into fearful little right-handed servants of the Lord.

And the atom bomb fell down on Hiroshima, Oklahoma the year she turned sixteen.

She said, "There is something very wrong here. Do you know what I mean?

'Cause I have visions forming in my head,

and I keep hearing what the preacher said.

He said this world is gonna be the death of me.

Well, I know it is, it's bound to be."

 

With a satchel full of broken hopes and empty picture postcards that she'ed never send.

Her moma sitting on the front porch step,

daddy frowning in the darkened doorway

waving his regrets.

Then she's jumping on the Santa Fe one summer night in 1947, bound for God knows where.

And she said, "I can see destruction fast approaching. I feel it in the air."

 

" And I have visions forming in my head,

and I keep hearing what the preacher said.

He said this world is gonna be the death of me.

Well, I know it is, it's bound to be."

 

On the road to Valparaso she met a hobo named old John.

They hunkered down in a gazebo and found a star to gaze upon.

Old John, he could see her slipping so he asked her what was wrong.

She said, "The rope I have been gripping turned to sand. And now it's gone.

It's gone."

 

"Can't you see the writing on the blood-soaked blue horizon,it's as clear as VJ day.

Hear the barking of the drownding dogs, frozen like so many Eisenhower statues in Pompeii."

"I think I'll have another taste, Old John, to numb my heart,

God knows I'm falling as fast as atomes through the sky."

She said, "This world sure ain't no place to live, but it ain't no place to die. No it ain't no place to die."

 

"And I have visions forming in my head,

and I keep hearing what the preacher said.

He said this world is gonna be the death of me.

Well, I know it is, it's bound to be."

 

what a wonderful story about a troubled soul. And placed in a time that one would not expect... I mean, we're talking about a woman who would be the age of our moms or grandmoms, today. I wouldn't know how to put something like that in a framework and fill in the blanks. I think that you pour those kind of ideas out, and get them on the page (or screen, as the case may be...)and then try to build a framework to suit the feeling. Just my opinion....

 

Bill

[Phait]

There are no techniques. Just heart.

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Powerboss:

I've got all kinds of music in my head and recorded but when it comes to putting words to it....BLANK.

Not an easy thingwriting words...though sometimes the lyrics can come out like a waterfall!

 

Lyrics have ALWAYS been the #1 hurdle with any song I've done.

The music...ah, that's never a big issue...I can hear all kinds of good things (and variations) in my head.

But...saying something that tells a story...that is emotionally personal and deep...and yet that could/would be accessible to anyone else that hears the song...

...now THAT'S always a tall order.

 

Just takes a lot of practice and time...and you need to write some (maybe a lot) corny, throw-away shit before you start to find those golden nuggetsthe keepers.

 

A real PITA is when you have about 75% of the lyrics...and then your brain makes that vacuum-like sucking sound...and then..._________...nothing!

That's when you REALLY need to work the words...and pound the hell out of it...otherwise, if you toss in just one or two corny, meaningless, un-flowing lines...

...it will kill the whole thing.

 

Yeah...think about the story first.

Maybe even write it out LIKE a story...not a song.

No rhymes...just straight textTHEN...start assembling the story into lines that fit the music.

 

For me...the music and the words happen rather simultaneously.

Not the WHOLE song...but at least the essence...the main plot.

Then it's just a question of working it 'til it's done.

 

You know...I always found pure instrumental MIDI/electronica to be rather an elementary compositional effort.

Mind you...there is some GREAT electronic stuff out there...and I really do like that music...its great filler

just have a hard time doing it myself...seriously.

Most of the time...it just ends up sounding like someone dialing through all their synth patches...and layering them on top of various rhythmic patterns

I'm sure many will say it's all "deep and well-thought out"...but I can't place any high compositional value on it, even if it is enjoyable listening to it as amb/mood music...

while I'm doing other stuff.

 

But...a good a song...words & music...a real message...

...now that takes some skill.

And it's funny how some very "simple" songs can be some of the MOST powerful in their message and their effect...for the composer and the audience!

 

Hey Phait...your new avatar really has that 1984/Big Brother vibe to it!

 

Are you with the Thought-Police?

[revolead]

Ideas from old thread

[Phait]

Originally posted by miroslav:

Hey Phait...your new avatar really has that 1984/Big Brother vibe to it!

 

Are you with the Thought-Police?

Nope. Vanity-Police.

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Phait:

Originally posted by miroslav:

Hey Phait...your new avatar really has that 1984/Big Brother vibe to it!

 

Are you with the Thought-Police?

Nope. Vanity-Police.

Check with Prince...he may know where she is.

[YourMotherShouldKnow]

Thanks Bill for the Pattison book rec. I picked it up and it has filled in a major gap in my writing.

 

Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:

One of my favorite songs, by Bill Deasey...

 

"Raised on words like "Punshment" and "God will get you if you don't do what you're told."

Nuns turn children into fearful little right-handed servants of the Lord.

And the atom bomb fell down on Hiroshima, Oklahoma the year she turned sixteen.

She said, "There is something very wrong here. Do you know what I mean?

'Cause I have visions forming in my head,

and I keep hearing what the preacher said.

He said this world is gonna be the death of me.

Well, I know it is, it's bound to be."

 

With a satchel full of broken hopes and empty picture postcards that she'ed never send.

Her moma sitting on the front porch step,

daddy frowning in the darkened doorway

waving his regrets.

Then she's jumping on the Santa Fe one summer night in 1947, bound for God knows where.

And she said, "I can see destruction fast approaching. I feel it in the air."

 

" And I have visions forming in my head,

and I keep hearing what the preacher said.

He said this world is gonna be the death of me.

Well, I know it is, it's bound to be."

 

On the road to Valparaso she met a hobo named old John.

They hunkered down in a gazebo and found a star to gaze upon.

Old John, he could see her slipping so he asked her what was wrong.

She said, "The rope I have been gripping turned to sand. And now it's gone.

It's gone."

 

"Can't you see the writing on the blood-soaked blue horizon,it's as clear as VJ day.

Hear the barking of the drownding dogs, frozen like so many Eisenhower statues in Pompeii."

"I think I'll have another taste, Old John, to numb my heart,

God knows I'm falling as fast as atomes through the sky."

She said, "This world sure ain't no place to live, but it ain't no place to die. No it ain't no place to die."

 

"And I have visions forming in my head,

and I keep hearing what the preacher said.

He said this world is gonna be the death of me.

Well, I know it is, it's bound to be."

 

what a wonderful story about a troubled soul.

Bill

There are some great lines in this song. I especially like the rope that turns to sand line. That's an artistic line if I ever saw one. Also using the word "bound" in an interesting way when there was a train in the mix from before. You know, trains go eastbound and southbound. Neat.

 

This guy is doing what I'm trying to do. He's tugging at your emotions. This particular lyric is nihilistic which I don't personally like but I must say he did a pretty nice job communicating his story.

 

If I can find a lyric that hits my emotions I'll post it.

 

And Phait, can you explain what you mean by "there are no techniques, not heart." ?

[Phait]

Originally posted by LanceM:

And Phait, can you explain what you mean by "there are no techniques, not heart." ?

I said "just heart", not "not heart"

 

It's just how I feel about writing. Some will agree, some will disagree.

[YourMotherShouldKnow]

This, to me, is a very good lyric. I'll reveal the author for those who don't know after we've discussed it.

 

__________

 

Well its 5 in the morning and the light's already broken

And the rainy streets are empty for nobody else has woken

Yet you turn towards the window as he sleeps beneath the covers

And you wonder what he's dreaming in his slumbers

 

There's a clock upon the table and it's burning up the hour

And you feel your life is shrinking like the petals of a flower

As you creep towards the closet you're so careful not to wake him

And you choose the cotton dress you bought last summer

 

There's a time of indecision between the bedroom and the door

But the part of you that knows that you can't take it any more

There's the promise of the future in the creaking of the floor

And your torn if you should leave him with a number

 

And in your imagination you're a thousand miles away

Because too many of his promises got broken on the way

So you write it in a letter all the things you couldn't say

And you tell him that you're never coming home

 

She starts running for the railway station praying that her calculation's right

And there's a train just waiting there to get her to the city before night

A place to sleep a place to stay will get her through another day

She'll take a job she'll find a friend she'll make a life that's better

 

And the passengers ignore her just a girl with an umbrella

There's nothing they can do for her there's nothing they can tell her

Nothing they could ever say would change the way she feels today

She'd live the life she'd always dreamed if he had only let her

 

Now in her imagination she's a million miles away

When too many of his promises got broken on the way

So she wrote it in a letter all the things she couldn't say

And she told him she was never coming home

 

I wake up in an empty bed a road drill hammers in my head

I call her name there's no reply it's not like her to let me lie

It's time for work it's time to go but something's different I don't know

 

I need a cup of coffee I'll feel better

I stumble to the bathroom door, her makeup bag is on the floor

It really is a mess this place it takes some time to shave my face

But Im not really thinking straight she never lets me sleep this late

 

Im almost done and then I see the letter

In his imagination she's a universe away

Too many of his promises got broken on the way

So she wrote it in a letter all things she couldn't say

 

And she told him she was never coming home,

She told him she was never coming home,

She told him she was never coming home

 

Im gonna live my life

Im gonna live my life in my own way

 

__________

[YourMotherShouldKnow]

Originally posted by Phait:

Originally posted by LanceM:

And Phait, can you explain what you mean by "there are no techniques, not heart." ?

I said "just heart", not "not heart"

 

It's just how I feel about writing. Some will agree, some will disagree.

Oops! Yeah, but what does it mean, "There are no techniques, just heart." ?

[Phait]

Er, what do you think?