A McLeod III Posted July 19, 2004 Posted July 19, 2004 What makes a good blues song y'all? Bad life experiences? A feeling? A formula? I'm trying to write my first blues lyric and I'd sure like your oppinions and suggestions on this one. I've played lots of blues songs but I never have been able to write one that sounded legitimate to me. Something heart felt-from the gut yet just a twist of Irony and humour to keep it fresh. So I wrote this little song, "Damn Wrong !" Went the "roots" route on this one. Used tape and analog processors (a Radio Shack Stereo Reverb, an old Pioneer Dynamic processor) SM-58 for a mic (no compression), and used a friends Bassman amp for the guitar. It's amazing what you can get out of old bits and pieces that you store in the attic. Take a listen. Comments are real welcome. This is my first attempt at this genre. Here's the link: www.soundclick.com/bands/2/musicallymrmmusic.htm Click on the link to "Damned Wrong" "Life Is Just A Game And They're Many Ways To Play...All You Do Is Choose." SC 1976 Fantom, XP 80, DX7 IIFD w/"E", Ensoniq ESQ 1, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Roland S 10, Korg Triton LE with EXB, GEM RP2
I I mjrn Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 Stylistic sincerity. It could be serious or humorous but it must have the flavor of authenticity & best to avoid cliches.
TrancedelicBlues Posted August 1, 2004 Posted August 1, 2004 you can't go too far wrong if you start out with the lyric "woke up this morning" (only you pronounce it "mawnin") for a real taste of authenticity, ignore the chord changes like John Lee Hooker and Lightnin Hopkins did... ;
RadioFreeBabylon Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 I think you hit on it in your question: bad life experiences. Nothing is quite as bluesy as a true story of a raw deal, bad love, lost your job, got evicted, car got repossesed, etc. Pick the crappiest thing you're dealing with, wallow in some self pity for an hour or two, then write it down.
I I mjrn Posted August 7, 2004 Posted August 7, 2004 Hmmm, from suggestion of "avoid cliches" to suggesting the deepest cliche...[although Capt. Beefheart did wonders with that when he reinterpreted Son House's "Death Letter Blues" ]. As far as JLHooker & Hopkins "ignporing chord changes" that's really something that occurred when they were accompanied by rote-playing amateurs; they themselves were quite acutely aware of their changes & were playing the songs as living works rather than as "set-in-stone" patterns. They simply played freely, fitting the music to their tune's development. A new suggestion: write from your own life or experience about something you know rather than delving into what seems stylistically appropriate. Check out the work of "blues revitalist" (as opposed to revivalist) Otis Taylor for a taste of what can be done in a non-cliched manner.
RadioFreeBabylon Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 If you want authentic blues, you should write from the blues. The blues should be felt, and in order to feel them best, you'd have to live them. They call them the blues for a reason. Here's the deepest of cliched blues lyrics, drawn from my own life experience, and coincidentally, might also be considered stlyistically appropriate. http://www.radiofreebabylon.com/rfbmusicrfbbb.php Your opinions are appreciated, though I likely won't (CAN'T) change my lyrics based on them.
TrancedelicBlues Posted August 8, 2004 Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Jackson's real nose: As far as JLHooker & Hopkins "ignporing chord changes" that's really something that occurred when they were accompanied by rote-playing amateurs; they themselves were quite acutely aware of their changes & were playing the songs as living works rather than as "set-in-stone" patterns.You're quite right. I love those guys.
whitefang Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 I'll tell this story again. Hope it helps... When I was in a music store waiting to talk to the repair tech, some guy was in there trying out several of the acoustic guitars. Fancied himself a "blues expert". He'd play a few licks of something or other, and announce, "That was DELTA style blues." Then he'd wham off something else, and say, "That was Chicago style blues." Technically, he was a pretty good guitarist. But he kept giving us "This style" and "That style" of blues. Seemingly out of nowhere, an old black man that was in the shop shuffled up and told him, "You're mistaken, son. Blues ain't a style, it's a FEELIN'." 'Nuff said. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
RadioFreeBabylon Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 That's what I was trying to say. Thanks, Whitefang - and thanks to the old black man shuffling up to the accomplished Blues Genius and setting him straight.
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by RadioFreeBabylon: That's what I was trying to say. Thanks, Whitefang - and thanks to the old black man shuffling up to the accomplished Blues Genius and setting him straight.Well, he didn't "set him straight." A Blues Man may just play. A blues historian can show you the typical styles of play from various regions and times. The two are not mutually exclusive, taken for what they are. That does not mean that the Bliues Man doesn't know/can't play the history of the Blues form. It odes not mean that the blues historian can play the Blues in context. It also does not mean that he cannot. But what he is showing you is valid, and a whole lot less bullshit than, "..it's a feeling.." Of COURSE it's a feeling. Music is an emotional experience. Take a player like me.... I don't play licks off of records, and I don't try to sound like anyone but me. Now, we're in the studio, and you need a Van Halen riff. And the guy next to me has studied these styles, and whips off a Van Halen type riff that is perfect for your needs. Now I play whatever the hell I play. But you needed/wanted a Van Halen style riff. The other guy gets the part. On a different day, you want something like what I do, and the studied cat with mounds of chops loses to me. Neither of us is wrong or right. He is studied, and I just play from emotion. I bet he gets a lot more work than I do, because he is mer versitle. I can't tell you what I'm going to play or why. Once I play it, I can't tell you what it was. That is just the way that I play. Some days it sucks, some days I like it. That doesn't make it right or wrong, and it doesn't make it blues. (In fact, white boys playing the blues is one of the most boring things that I can imagine.) You can break -any- musical form into it's component parts and learn how to duplicate it. Note for note. Will it catch people? Only if it has the right feel. Any style. Not just Blues. When music stops having a feeling, it will stop being music. One of the best and most well versed blues historians is also one of the better blues players.... Taj Mahal. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.
RadioFreeBabylon Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 Archie, in his original post, asked "What makes a good Blues song? A feeling, a formula?" He was asking for help with lyrics. I think it's a feeling. Now, if you need a guy to fill in a nice blues lick on your blues song, then by all means, find a guy who knows the formula. If you want to write a good blues lyric...formulas are out the window. That, I believe, is what the old man Whitefang saw at the music shop meant. And he did indeed set the Blues Technician straight.
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by RadioFreeBabylon: Archie, in his original post, asked "What makes a good Blues song? A feeling, a formula?" He was asking for help with lyrics. I think it's a feeling. That, I believe, is what the old man Whitefang saw at the music shop meant. And he did indeed set the Blues Technician straight.Lyrics play no part in Whitefang's message. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.
RadioFreeBabylon Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 So, Bill - what makes a good blues song?
cherri Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 When I write blues lyrics, I tap into past life experiences ... but I try to bring out the imagery and the mood of the experience, rather than describing the experience itself. Quick example, when I was a kid and on into my teen years, during some bad family times, I would lay awake at night, fantasizing about running away. Sometime before dawn, a train would go by on the other side of the river and I would hear it signaling as it went through town. So now, every time I hear a train whistle it immediately takes me back emotionally to those nights. Later I got divorced and I wrote a song about leaving my husband, 'Moving On'. The first verse lyrics are: When I woke up this morning Heard the rain falling down Heard a lone train whistle As it was rolling out of town. Sat down and we made conversation You didn't see my bags where I left them You didn't see my bags, they were Underneath the bed. The song contains blues cliches, the train, waking up in the morning. The reason the song works (IMHO) is that I FEEL these images and it comes across when I sing. Our guitarist wrote a heartbreaking slide part that weaves into the vocal melody. If I hadn't grown up listening to that pre-dawn train, I wouldn't be able to successfully use it in a song. You can hear it on our soundclick page, but I am not posting this to promote the song, just to explain where the first verse came from. It all boils down to 'write what you know'. The art is in how you write it. Does that make any sense? www.metalblues.com
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by RadioFreeBabylon: So, Bill - what makes a good blues song?Blues is not my idiom, but I think that the same things that make for a good song in any genre make for a good blues song... good lyrics, catchy beat, nice changes. Songs like "I Love You More Than You'll Ever Know" (the Blues Project) are far more interesting to me than the typical 12 bar thunka thunka thunka that I hear in white blues bars. Typical minor forms that comprise songs like "I've Got a Mind to Give Up Livin' and Go Shopping Instead" (Michael Bloomfield maybe? I forget)or "Since I Been Loving You Baby" (Led Zep) are made interesting by lyrics and arrangement. A good song is a good song. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.
RadioFreeBabylon Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 Well said, Bill. I visted your site. Lots of helpful stuff there. I wish Archie were back here weighing in on the thread he started. I did a little test not long ago. Remember Hanson? They had that omnipresent hit a few years back that sounded very Jackson 5. Love it or hate it, it was still sort of ....catchy. Well, I took the rhythm to Hanson's "Mmm-Bop" and slowed it down by about half. You'd be surprised how bluesy it sounds. Of course the lyrics don't cut it as a blues tune, but it was an interesting lesson to me on chord structure and how tempo can dramatically alter a song's mood and feel.
A McLeod III Posted August 24, 2004 Author Posted August 24, 2004 RFB and Bill, I've been reading the rather spirited verbal exchange you guys have been having about this topic and to chime in on it, I'd have to say that I agree that the blues is more so a feeling. Almost an Aurra so to speak. I also feel that any good technician can replicate a blues feel. If the same said technician can flow from the soul, then the better the result. (It's always said that of the young lions, Stevie Ray Vaughan had that kind of flow.) Lyrics should have some reference I think to experiences; personal or shared in order for a blues song to have a convincing delivery. The depth of the lyric will depend on your perception. The blues doesn't have to sound terminal. It can be humorous, campy or morose if need be as long as it depicts a story that draws away the sting of a personal experience. Most blues came from that vein anyway. Paint a picture so desperate until it makes your situation not look so bad. In my oppinion, when you incorporate that into a blues lyric and have that basic 12 bar blues thing backing it, you are pretty much on target to get a decent blues song. "Life Is Just A Game And They're Many Ways To Play...All You Do Is Choose." SC 1976 Fantom, XP 80, DX7 IIFD w/"E", Ensoniq ESQ 1, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Roland S 10, Korg Triton LE with EXB, GEM RP2
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 First let me say that I don't post with any 'heat'. I'll logically try to defend my position, but you won't (often) read me getting personal or pissed. These are discussion forums. Nobody has to agree with anybody. Going in with that understood makes life a lot easier. It's nice when people can exchange ideas. Second, Martin Mull did a blues parody. He played it on a toy plastic guitar with plastic strings, and used a baby bottle as the slide. Probably the best exampe of a white biy singing from expereince in the blues idiom. (g) I believe that it was called "the Suburban Blues". Woke up this morning, both my cars were gone. Woke up this morning, both my cars were gone. Felt so mean, lowdown and dirty, I threw my martini 'cross the lawn. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.
rebonn Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 I disagree about the you gotta feel it crap. Paul McCartney could write an excellent blues song sitting in one of his mansions. You don't have to shoot someone, be shot, or live a life of crime to write a good rap song or be a cowboy to write a good country song. Just being a talented songwriter will sufice. www.blairsdevillestudios.com
hard truth Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 I was planning to mention the Martin Mull song also, because I was planning to cite it as a rare example of a white guy writing an honest blues song. Blues is a genre, a style and a feeling. There are guidelines and cliches that make a song a particular genre such as Chicago Blues. There are bluesy characteristics that can be applied to other types of music, such as certain ways of bending notes. There are songs that evoke the same feelings (emotions) as classic blues songs without necessarily being a blues genre song or even using blues stylistic elements. I think some of Hank Williams' (the real one) songs did that. What I like about the best blues songs is: The honesty-often the narrator admits he has done wrong. There are rarely heroes in blues, just regular folks trying to get what they need and hurting each other in the process. A sense of time and place-By naming names and places, describing activities, using the street language. The music and lyrics reinforce each other-Its a myth that blues music is always about sad things. Blues expresses every emotion and the music almost always reinforces the feeling behind the lyrics. (unlike some pop music which may have sad lyrics with perky upbeat music) Unless you have genuinely lived in a rural, primarily African American area and associated closely with the locals, in my opinion you have no business writing about mojos, hopping freight trains, seeing gypsy women for advice, being a voodoo chile and using obsolete slang terms. Instead write about your real environment and feelings, even if it is about finding both cars are gone and throwing your drink across the lawn. Catch the way the writer captures his time and place in this classic: Don't Start Me To Talkin' by Sonny Boy Williamson II (Rice Miller) Well, I'm goin' down to Rosie's, stop at Fannie Mae's Gonna tell Fannie what I heard, her boyfriend say Don't start me to talkin', I'll tell her everything I know I'm gonna break up this signifyin', 'cause somebody's got to go Jack give his wife two dollars, go downtown and get some margarine1 Gets out on the streets, ol' George stopped her He knocked her down, and blackened her eye She gets back home, tell her husband a lie Don't start me to talkin, I'll tell everything I know I'm gonna break up this signifyin', somebody's got to go She borrowed some money, go to the beauty shop Jim honked his horn, she begin to stop She said, "Take me, baby," around the block, I'm goin to the beauty shop, where I can get my hair sock2" Don't start me to talkin', I'll tell everything I know Well, to break up this signifyin', somebody's got to go __________ Note 1: John W. Harrelson suggest that instead of "margarine" it should read "market". He says it's southern dialect, "go down to the store and get my market(ing) done". Thanks John; Note 2: sock, when black men (usta)get their hair "processed" (see also John Lee Hooker's song Process) it required a tight wrapping (every night for protection in sleep). A hair sock did the job... Thanks to John W. Harrelson again. www.oranjproductions.com
Barandine Vondenger Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by Archie McLeod III: What makes a good blues song y'all? I've played lots of blues songs but I never have been able to write one that sounded legitimate to me. [QB]wella to be legit you gotta write from a formula and just do all the formulaic neccessities that make up the timeless blues song. Firstly no dates or names or places. Here is one I wrote as a delta blues twelve bar. I st uh borrowed some olde dead black guys riff( thanks red) and made it my own by incorporating it into an original arrangement which is heavily influenced by olde dead black guys. I wished to do an AUTHENTIC twelve bar in the DELTA STYLE so I moved a little south of the delta and TARRY ROAD was born. That black tar road goes a long way from nowhere to nowhere and sure carries a heavy load in between. TARRY ROAD lofi realstream TARRY ROAD MP3 Lightspeed DOWNLOAD TARRY ROAD MP3 TARRY ROAD It's twelve o:clock and I'm boilin' oh lord I feel just like that olde Tarry Road It's twelve o:clock and I'm boilin' oh lord I feel just like that olde Tarry Road I go on for mile after lonely, lonely mile and I carry me one heavy load I was born a broke boy and that ain't no goode reason for a grown man to cry I was born a broke boy and that ain't no goode reason for a grown man to cry I ain't worried too much about it oh I'll prob'ly be broke when I die I met a girl who tolde me she would love me till the day that she died I met a girl who tolde me she would love me till the very day that she died as if that won't enough she said she'd even love me from the other side The first verse acts as the chorus too. Simple clean and about moveing the jams. it works; it grows on you and Tarry Road sounds OLDE AND NEW all at once.. ahahaha! Feel free to clonk and compare.. Frank Ranklin and the Ranktones WARP SPEED ONLY STREAM FRANKIE RANKLIN (Stanky Franks) <<<
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