Help! Need Advice on starting!

[haggard]

Hello songwriting folk!

I am new to this forum, but I've been active for some time at the low-down forum. I play the bass since more than 20 years. I began playing rock, blues and pop covers, then some jazz and bossa nova. I have long had the intention of songwriting, but have never done it. I studied music theory and harmony, and I studied the structure of songs from many different bands. A great part of this was self taught, a part formally studied. I am playing now in a local band (I live in Switzerland) with a small repertoire of some 15 songs, 80% originals. I am the newcomer, and the guys write collectively, without much musical knowledge, but with good instinct and ear. We're a quintet (female singer, 2 guitars, drums and bass). They are a hobby band with plans to improve. You can hear them at http://rockfaq.europe.webmatrixhosting.net/

They sing in english (I just helped them correcting their lyrics...)

I have plans of introducing a second voice and to try some own compositions. For me it is in part a test to see how my songwriting works.

I made some search in this forum on advices for starting, but did not find anything. Just coincidentally the first topic when I first entered the forum was the advice on the book "Art and Fear", which I'll directly order. Somebody could give me any practical advice as to first steps? Bass is fine for defining melodic lines, but I need a harmonic instrument. I have a keyboard at home, but I may get a guitar as I am more familiar with strings. What else...? I am until now more familiar inthe practice with melody than with chord progressions. What's the next step...?

[johnfindlay]

Hey Art & Fear looks good.I've been writing all

kinds of stuff for a long time.To make a long story short--I have a hard time writing unless I'm getting paid[thats why I should read that book].As you can imagine that could limit me-mainly songwriting cuz there's no immediate return on that.

 

Here's a link to a song I wrote in 97.

If I can help out lemme know.

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/stratalkmusic.htm

 

JF

[shikawkee]

You want a place to start ?

Why not try riffs and groove. See if you can come up with a hooky riff then expand that further into a longer piece. Then find a tempo that works for you and do your best to make it really groove. Add words and salt to taste.

 

It's a start anyway....

[haggard]

Thanks for the good advice. I am taking it into practice. There are many ideas still to be materialized.

[Cozmicslop]

sorry,

 

double post

[Cozmicslop]

Haggard, fellow lowdowner here. It took years to write my first song. Months to write the second. Two years ago i wrote a new song every couple of weeks. I've made changes to some but they've been pretty successful with all kinds of audiences. I'm self taught and trained on a variety of instruments. Here's what works for me.

 

I have a small hand held tape recorder and a stack of legal pads. I don't listen to music on the radio when I drive. I sing little nuggets, snippets and ideas into the tape recorder. Keep them simple and 'hooky' easy to sing and remember. I used to write primarily on bass. Now I use my acoustic and keyboard workstation. I follow the same principles. Run tape and play simple progressions that are easy to remember and play. After a while the strongest ideas tend to stay with you.

 

I tend to write the chorus first and then find verses to support them. I make a simple demo and bring it to the band or other guys I play with. You'll be surprised at all the great ideas you'll come up with jamming. I make tapes of the jams and go home and rewrite.

 

Never become so attached to an idea that you aren't willing to change it. Most times your first ideas will be the best, but don't be anal about changing things. Usually by the third or forth rewrite you have a song that stands up pretty well. Have one person you trust to tell you the truth. Not family or close friend. Keeps copies of everything. Always keep the tape running.

 

Do the song as dance, then rock, then country, then jazz. If it stands up under the stylistic changes, you know it's a strong song. If a singer needs to change a word or two to make it more 'singable' be flexible. They aren't poems. They're meant to be sung.

 

Join a songwriters group like Just Plain Folks or SongsAlive. Buy Jason Blumes book. Do a google on him.

 

I have some favorite writers Like Sting, Peter Gabriel, Neil Young and John Hiatt. I study their songs for style and content. You have to have something to say. You have to find your own voice. I don't believe in writing songs by committee. It doesn't work for me. I'd rather let others contribute good musical ideas and share that credit with them, than get bogged down while five people try to come up with a rhyme for the word 'orange'.

 

Hope some of this helps. PM me and I'll provide links to some of my music. You can decide for yourself if you like what my methods come up with. And NO, I don't have any grammys or gold records...

 

yet.

 

Peace.

 

Coz

[haggard]

Thanks Cozmicslop

I had birthday today (45!). Your communication was a really appreciated present.

[Cozmicslop]

Happy B-Day fellow gemini!

 

I will be 46 on the 20th

 

Once you get your lyrics together don't forget to start working on the harmonies. They're very important. They help the listener to sing along and really help to 'sell' your song.

 

My songwriting coach was a big fan of the Beach Boys. Even though they are not my cup of tea, They were amazing.

 

I'm sure I'll think of more stuff for you. Check your PMs for links to my music as well as other great sites for songwriters.

 

Peace,

 

Coz

[hello2day]

Arranging the Psychic Sonic Furniture

 

Songwriters often complain about having music sitting in their head that never sees the light of day because of the difficulties we all have in identifying, arranging and then extracting this psychic sonic furniture.

 

If we were to take a basic three chord progression featuring C, F, and G, we would eventually be able to play these chords long enough to "hear" them move through our imagination, even after we had stopped playing them. We could close our eyes and literally feel the impact that each chord has on the way the progression is propelled forward harmonically.

 

If we were to look at the role or function, that each chord plays in this, we would agree that the C chord defines the sound of the song as being in a single key; the key of C. Along the way the C chord also relieves feelings of tension that are created by the other chords in the progression.

 

In a standard progression, the F is a chord that we often move back and forth to, from the comfort of our C chord. It will create some interest, which will help keep our listener engaged, but it does not create the real significant tension that indicates to our listener that we are building up to the end of a section.

 

The G creates a lot of tension in the key of C and therefore is used to: end sections, move into new sections, or move towards the last and resolving harmony, which would usually be a C chord.

 

If you can get to the point where you can "picture" these chord movements and their functions, in your imagination, you can start to shift them around like "sonic furniture" in a room. This will allow you to write songs without the use of an instrument, and perhaps the restrictions or distractions that having to play and compose simultaneously can present.

 

This skill can be expanded to include minor, diminished and augmented chords, extended harmony, and even chords imported from beyond the key.

 

You may even be able to "hear" modulations, into and out of key, that you will be able to identify, properly name, and then "project" into a progression without ever leaving the comfort of your own psychic domain.

 

This can also allow you the freedom to create music beyond your own ability to play. By documenting the chords from their imagined impression, you can leave the challenge of performing the piece up to the musicians who will be playing the piece in the studio and on stage. It may also create a challenge that will inspire you to work on your musicianship to endeavour to attain this ability. Imagine saying, "I've been practicing really hard and I can almost play the song I wrote last week".

 

Arranging the psychic sonic furniture is a fundamental way of connecting the music that you dream up in your wildest imagination, with your knowledge of chords (and the theory behind the movement of harmony), and making the most of the role they both play in the music you call your own.

[hello2day]

I could stop there... here is more...

 

What is it about a lyric that makes the message universal? What is it that makes that message unique? So often, when I'm sent lyrics to critique, reading through them I find they "sound" the same as the last set of lyrics sent to me, but by a different writer! How can this be?

 

I remember being a teenager and coming to the realization that my thoughts about this world were not so much my own, they were thoughts that I'd picked up from my parents, my teachers and other mature individuals whom I respected. What a realization! It depressed me! I decided that I had to make time to come to my own conclusions about everything, but that was a pretty ominous task. This is the problem I find with newer writers...they are repeating lines they've heard a million times...cliché's some of them, but others just ordinary, uninteresting phrases that make your eyes glaze over everytime you read them. They have trouble coming up with a new way of saying something old...well, no kidding! When I wrote my first few songs...maybe the first couple of hundred!...I did the same thing. Not only were my thoughts not my own, neither were my lyrics.

 

The first hint of what's coming is when a writer says..."Without the music, the lyrics don't sound as good, so you should hear them with the music!" If you feel that way about your lyrics, take it as a sign that they are not finished yet! The age old argument, that a song isn't completely understood without the music, may be true on some level. But that doesn't take away from the fact that the lyrics may be weak...no music, no matter how wonderful, actually improves the state of the lyrics!

 

So how do you uncover your own individual thoughts, your unique perspective of the world around you? One of the keys is in your unique experiences...your life is different from many other's lives in many ways. The things that happen to you, although they may have something in common with others, also have elements that are different.

 

For instance...say your whole family goes on a picnic, and the usual things happen...someone brings a football and the men play on a field...people bring baskets of food and drinks. The kids scream, people plaster sunscreen on. These are the common elements of a family picnic. But what might be different from others? That you have an Uncle Derek who has a gold front tooth that he flashes everytime he gets a touchdown. That your mother always brings tunafish sandwiches and makes you eat them before you can have the potato chips...that your cousin smuggled beer in a gingerale bottle because it's almost the same colour...

 

The family picnic experience is common, the characters and events are not. When you begin to look for these little things that make your life unique, you begin to uncover your own voice in your lyric writing. Over time, it becomes easier to identify the interesting stuff! You didn't just wear a suit to the prom...you wore a dark blue suit and the collar of the shirt scratched you in the same place all night everytime you danced with this one particular girl...there you go. Later on in this series of articles, I go into more detail...about detail!

 

Eventually, you may find yourself INVENTING these details because your creative mind begins to feel freer to do so. My writing has developed to a point now where I can mix reality with imagination...sometimes I do that to "beef" a song up. People often ask me what elements about my songwriting are true and what I've made up! I almost never tell them! But I think I've finally begun to think, and write, for myself...

[ernest828]

I can only speak from what has worked for me.

 

Theres so much info (personal experiences) to share with you but I think the most important advice is to remain consistent. I know this is odd (or at least I think it is) but I didn`t seriously write until I started using a 28 line yellow legal pad and specific pens. I know that may not make any sense but writing is a very personal thing for me and I need to have some connection with the way the pen and paper feels. Consistency is key for my writing.

 

If you want a harmonic instrument you can`t go wrong with a piano or guitar. I use both. Some songs work best on one but all songs should carry over on both.

 

I also try to write something everyday. This may be from an idea I had the day before or something entirely new. "New" ideas come occasionally. Most of my time is spent developing the "new" idea that came maybe three months or three weeks ago.

 

They say you have to write 100 songs before you write something of value. I mostly agree with this but there is something to the first songs that is very exciting.

 

The hardest part to writing for me is saying what I want to say poetically. I just can`t write lyrics.

 

Anyway, I hope that helps. I can write a book on the subject but I really think you need to spend some quality time alone with paper, open and instrument.

 

Last but not least, don`t be afraid to say whats really on your mind no matter how disturbing. Theres truth in those things and that is the germ of originality you must develope.

 

Ernest

[Björn Fröberg]

hello2day, I read yor posts (especially the second one) with great interest. I've done a couple of songs with harmony and melody, but I've had big difficulties with lyrics. Every time I sit down to write something, I just don't seem to get my ideas/feelings on paper, and I get depressed when I realise everything I've just written is just crap.

 

But to the thing that I was really interested in your post was the thing with detail. See, I'm a huge Tom Waits fan (70's stuff, I'm actually sitting listening to him right now) and the thing I love with his songwriting is the details. He always come up with some lines that seem to come out of nowhere, but fits perfectly. It can be something somebody said, it can be a car driving past, anything really. Those small details wake his stories to life. Have you ever heard the song "Johnsburg, Illinois"? It's a fantastic song, 1m27s long, I think, and says everything needed. If you haven't heard it, I highly recommend it!

 

Back to the point. Your post made me realise I have to look for those small details that make my life mine. Not only for writing lyrics, but for the joy of life alltogheter.

[haggard]

Thanks everyone for the valuable feedback! I am currently looking for an acoustic guitar to continue. Somehow I think I'd feel more comfortable than with the keyboard. The ideas are somehow gradually fermenting. Their time will come soon, I feel...

[shniggens]

The best method for me is to write lyrics and music seperately. For instance, when you get your lyrical inspiration, WRITE IT DOWN! Don't force it. When you get your musical inspiration, WRITE IT DOWN!!!! (record it, whatever). Don't think of your music when you write lyrics, and don't think of your lyrics when you write music.

 

THEN

 

Go through both of them, and see if you can make any of it match. I have music (chord progressions, licks, even entire musical pieces) that acquired lyrics years after the music was written.

 

Good luck.