OK Songwriters, let's go

[Mike Dawson]

I do many things musically (some better than others, and none all that well ), but I'm a songwriter before I'm a singer, guitarist, pianist, producer, etc. Writing songs is what I love, what I do, and what I hope to do. Yet for some reason, when I get on this forum I rarely come to the songwriting wing. I think this is a little bit of a problem, and one that we have the power to fix. (I'm just not real sure how)

 

Does anyone else feel this way? From reading posts I know that there are more experienced and better writers on here than me, as well as less experienced and (at this point) not as good writers as myself. I also know that I can learn things from both more and less experienced writers if we make a little more conscientious effort to put ourselves out there.

 

So is anyone with me, or is this a complicated and lost cause that I should abandon and stick to the NFL forum?

[kitaristi0]

I think the only problem with this forum is that there aren't enough messages being sent here. If you log on and there's no new messages then ofcourse you're going to jump on to another forum.

 

Maybe we should make an effort to send more messages in the future.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Too true! I'm a bassist, a drummer, percussionist, producer....by the time I go through all those respective forums, I'm too exhausted to come to this lovely songwriters one.

I've been writing sings for about 15 years, over four hundred songs so far.

In the beginning, I used to find it so hard. Why? Coz I made a mistake of thinking writing a song is like writing an essay...sit there, concentrate. Big mistake.

When I realised dat and relaxed, tunes and lyrics just started flowing. At this moment in time, I can write a complete song with lyrics, arrangements an all in an instant!

I wrote so many songs, so much so that I've now decided to concentrate on writing only instrumentals!!

[Mike Dawson]

You're right that we don't post enough, but it doesn't seem like these much to post on. To me it feels like the thread is dominated by 'here's lyrics-what do you think' and 'I can't write songs, but I want to-what do i do'. Which is great, but I never know the person posting, or what style he or she wants to write in, what his or her motivation and songwriting goals are, or know any of the other people who are posting, so I tend to feel as though posting my opinions wouldn't really add a whole lot to the quality of the thread.

 

I think there's a diverse group on here, which is great, but I think I think that works against us if we aren't aware of it.

 

For instance, I write country songs. I remember reading on one of those threads when someone gave the advice not to stress out over lyrics because they're not important. And I was just thinking, 'yeah, that's true in certain styles. How many great rock songs have non-sensical lyrics? a ton' But country music is built upon lyrics. So if this person seeking advice wants to write country songs he or she didn't get real good advice.

 

I think maybe getting to know the people that post, and the people that would post if we're a little more active, may help. For example, I have a very specific problem writing verse lyrics. But I've never really felt the urge to start a thread looking for advice because I have no idea if anyone even writes country and is familiar with the stylistic nuances. And even if there is someone out there with useful advice for me, he or she probably just skips over the songwritng forum anyway

 

Maybe we could start a thread with bio type information. But keep it simple, and focus on style, level of writing, and experience and goals with our songs. Maybe if we know more about where we're all coming from, and where we're headed then more useful threads will pop up and better advice will be dispensed. Just an idea.

[whitefang]

Yes, it's true this forum gets too much into lyric problems and "what makes a good song" discussions. Occaisionally, group chord progression projects have sprung up, once by me, but those, too, disintergrate once they have the contributions of musicians more highly trained and skilled offering chords others can't play, or may have never heard of. Then they lose interest. I haven't offered any lyrics for critiquing because none of them are copyrighted. And although I trust the regular members of this forum enough to not think they'll steal them(if indeed they just might be good enough), there are often "guests" scanning these forums, and there's no way of knowing who they are and why they're here.

 

If I had more time tonight, one thread I can suggest(if it hasn't been done before I joined in here)is to mention any songwriter you like, and just why you like them.

 

Whitefang

[Archer]

I think it's too hard to have a discussion of lyrics most of the time without having the benefit of the melody.

I haven't posted any lyrics because I don't know how anyone can give practical advice without hearing them in some sort of context.

 

I do like the idea of posts about your favorite songwriter and why, or maybe a debate on why some songs are timeless or great or popular at the moment.

[cherri]

I haven't posted any lyrics because I don't know how anyone can give practical advice without hearing them in some sort of context.

Bingo. That's why I have hesitated to post my lyrics for review, and also why I hesitate to critique the lyrics that are posted in this forum. The vibe of the song is key to the effectiveness of the lyrics.

[skipclone 1]

SIR begging to beg to differ with the officer`s opinion SIR...

 

Nope, there are a ton of cool things to post here besides lyrics-IF one accepts the premise that songwriters have to be more than just musicians. My idea is that songwriters are musical writers, ergo (my word of the week) just having music chops is not enough. There are all kinds of cool writing exercises that help expand your vocabulary

-I made one for myself recently, what`s the most exact opposite of the word `dense`? as in high density? maybe I`ve been in Japan too long but it took me all afternoon to come up with `diffuse`.

Here`s another, write a lyric to match this metrical unit-I can never remember the names of all four types, maybe it`s a trochee. Anyway,

 

da-da-DA-da-da-DA-da-da-DA-da-da-DA

 

here`s an example:

 

`now there`s ONE set of FOOTprints, but ONCE there were TWO...`

 

put it to a beat and off ya go...

 

anyway, there`s tons more-one person post a lyric, the next person try to rhyme with it.

someone can post a rhyme scheme-AABAC-and see what we can come up with.

[theblue1]

I've noticed a similar thing in myself with regard to songwriter forums...

 

I've participated in songwriter workshops in the 3DW and I enjoy them and can learn a lot from them.

 

But often when I visit songwriter forums on various sites I find myself at a loss. There are the typical "how do you get inspired" and "describe your writing method" posts and it can be interesting trying to describe those things and reading other's methods but it's not the primary thing I look for when getting together with other songwriters.

 

I think part of the problem is that other forums often fill part of the function.

 

If you post a link to a recording and say "what do you think?" you're likely to get at least one or two people giving detailed comments on production and problems with the recording.

 

But when it comes to the actual writing, it seems like a lot of times people are reluctant to roll up their sleeves and wade in.

[Archer]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

SIR begging to beg to differ with the officer`s opinion SIR...

 

Nope, there are a ton of cool things to post here besides lyrics-IF one accepts the premise that songwriters have to be more than just musicians. My idea is that songwriters are musical writers, ergo (my word of the week) just having music chops is not enough. There are all kinds of cool writing exercises that help expand your vocabulary

-I made one for myself recently, what`s the most exact opposite of the word `dense`? as in high density? maybe I`ve been in Japan too long but it took me all afternoon to come up with `diffuse`.

Here`s another, write a lyric to match this metrical unit-I can never remember the names of all four types, maybe it`s a trochee. Anyway,

 

da-da-DA-da-da-DA-da-da-DA-da-da-DA

 

here`s an example:

 

`now there`s ONE set of FOOTprints, but ONCE there were TWO...`

 

put it to a beat and off ya go...

 

anyway, there`s tons more-one person post a lyric, the next person try to rhyme with it.

someone can post a rhyme scheme-AABAC-and see what we can come up with.

good ideas skipclone 1

[Archer]

Originally posted by theblue1:

I've noticed a similar thing in myself with regard to songwriter forums...

 

I've participated in songwriter workshops in the 3DW and I enjoy them and can learn a lot from them.

 

But often when I visit songwriter forums on various sites I find myself at a loss. There are the typical "how do you get inspired" and "describe your writing method" posts and it can be interesting trying to describe those things and reading other's methods but it's not the primary thing I look for when getting together with other songwriters.

 

I think part of the problem is that other forums often fill part of the function.

 

If you post a link to a recording and say "what do you think?" you're likely to get at least one or two people giving detailed comments on production and problems with the recording.

 

But when it comes to the actual writing, it seems like a lot of times people are reluctant to roll up their sleeves and wade in.

I think it would be cool to have a thread like the "how good's your music" thread over in open mike BUT only remarks regarding lyrics, melody, and arrangement ect. allowed.

Sometimes it is best though to have just one instrument and a vocal to listen to when critiquing lyrics.

[I I mjrn]

Besides the offered ideas (some of which, like getting opinions on music, collaborating, etc., are in action on other forums) there's a host of ptrevious (& potential future) discussion topics.

 

Check the archives for a lot of copyright & business info, for instance.

There've also been discussions of various styles & particular artists, as well as the nature of creativity (now there's a topic!).

 

Explore the material that's "hidden" [via the choice of topic/page date display ---try "show all topics"]...or just do a little thinking about a particular subject to discuss rather than merely seeing what's been posted by others...

[alanfc]

Originally posted by Archer:

[/QB]

........Sometimes it is best though to have just one instrument and a vocal to listen to when critiquing lyrics.[/QB]

Its 4/17 I've just now read this thread in its entirety and I agree it would be fun and useful to have folks post one voice, one instrument. If they have the capability to record at home and place a link to whatever kind of hosting site they can.

 

I may take the plunge and put up my next song with voice and guitar only. Only on this board. Most of my other songs are guitar focused and fairly scattered. This newest one I'm working on is an ultra-simple arrangement and it's centered on the Vocal (this is new and frightening to me)

 

I also bought the book "Art and Fear" at the suggestion of fellow forumites here, and have been driven insane with inspiration after just the small part of it I've read so far. I have emailed the administrator to see if I'm allowed to occasionally post a quote or two from this book. It is so good that I would feel guilty not sharing! I'm waiting for the admin's response now.

 

I really like this forum and I'm glad Berkleeboi and others have brought this issue up. This place has been helpful with my questions on the Process of writing, and I think that hearing the Final Product (ok-near final) of any given forumites' work would be fun and extremely helpful too.

[DC]

As long as you credit the source, you can post quotes all day long.

 

I think it's a good idea to have a check each other's tunes thread over here. I don't think it should be just guitar/piano vocal though. Many songs I've written start with a bass line or mandolin part or sax bit so the backing is important to the tune as a whole.

 

Many good ideas in this thread.