Pro Tools LE Question

[Dwarf]

Hey all you PT gurus, I have need of some of your expertise. I've been working on a pro tools 5.1.3 (for Windows) recording and I'm running into an error that says something like "out of CPU power, eliminate some plugins to continue". Now that doesn't make sense because this particular tune only has 12 tracks in it with an average of two plugins per track. I have other tunes with 15 or 16 tracks and the same number of plugins without any errors. Here's where I think the problem is. This tune is [b]heavily[/b] edited. We had 24 tracks which I've bounced down to 12. Of the original 24, I had to manually de-pop some of the vocals. I edited out parts that weren't supposed to be there and pitched shifted to correct the odd error or two. I moved stuff over to make it sit better in the track and I've normalized some of the quieter tracks. In short, I've manipulated these tracks to the point where their own mothers wouldn't recognise them. Some of them have had all of the above done to them! Is this the problem? Is the computer having to process each edit every time I play the tune? When I look in the Audio Files directory I see 105 wav files. Is there a way to tell PT to compile all the tracks? Is this even the problem? I'm at the point where I'm ready to mix the tune but it only plays 3/4 of the way through. I've already upped the CPU usage to 85%. HELP! Thanks in advance -- Rob

[not Cereal]

well i have a mac so its different, but i have had that issue from time to time. a few suggestions are: 1. copy the session to a new session first. save session as... OR save session copy in... you dont need to copy the audio files, so save session should be fine. you do this because in step two we will ruin your session.... 2. in the COPY of the session, take the COMPLETED tracks that are edited, and need no more work, but consist of many files or regions in the same track. select the entire track, all regions, and make one region out of them. you can do this with the audiosuite gain plug in, duplicate plug in, or another plug in. your choice. in the plug in choose CREATE CONTINUOUS REGION and process. you will be left with ONE new audio file for the whole track. do this for ALL tracks that you are DONE working on. 3. THEN in the regions pulldown menu, select UNUSED regions, and DELETE from SESSION (not from DISC). this will free up resources for the session, and will NOT change the original session (remember this is a COPY of the session) i work this way a lot, and always have MANY versions of the same session. i use a number system, like COOLTUNE.1.1.3 and maybe up to COOLTUNE.3.1.4 where the first number represents large changes, later numbers smaller changes. this way you can go back as many steps as you want, all the track info is there. you might end up with version 1.0 with expanded drums, dubbed down to two tracks for VERSION 2.1 get the idea? does this help?

[Philip OKeefe]

Yup, Coaster nailed the solution. Copy the session somewhere else, open the copy, consolodate the edits (create continuous region") and you'll be much better off. Remember, PT LE uses your computer CPU for EVERYTHING... and the more edits, the more automation the fewer plug ins you'll be able to run.

[Dwarf]

Thanks Coaster, I see where you're going with that and I'll give it a try in the morning. Plus I like your filing system. Well, the day is only ten minutes old and already I've learned something. Now I can coast for the rest of the day :) -- Rob

[Dwarf]

Thanks Phil. A second opinion that backs up the first. You guys are great. -- Rob

[Duhduh]

Interesting. Ive never had any trouble with high edit counts. And Ive done some heavy editing! My first questions to you would be: 1) What plugins are you using? Even if you are only using a couple per track, if your using more than say, 3 D-Verbs your gonna have problems. Ive noticed being able to use almost limitless limiters, compressors and eq's. 2) What bit/sample rate are you using? I dont know what [i]I[/i] may be doing wrong but I cannot get more than 18-20 tracks at 24bit. Ive been recording everything at 16bit 48Khz. 3) When referring to editing, are you talking about automation? Automation [i]does[/i] take up a lot of CPU recources.

[deanmass]

Any hints on how many tracks a Ti 800 Laptop with 1GB ram shoudl run on LE..?

[Philip OKeefe]

Hard to say what you'll get on the Ti. There's a really handy test (the infamous "davec" test) over on the DUC where you create new session - 24 bit / 44.1 KHz and create a track, insert a std 4 band Digi EQ, std digi compressor, slap delay, med. delay and long delay. Yup, five stock Digidesign plug ins that you'd NEVER use together on one track, but that's not the point. The point is a common "stress test" with tools everyone who owns PT LE has available to them. Arm the track. Now alt/shift/d and clone it. Arm that one. Keep going until your CPU useage meter goes "red". If you fill all 24 tracks without going over on the CPU useage, start with mono aux tracks with the same plug ins. Once the CPU meter goes into the red, delete a track, click on the CPU meter (to clear the red) and if it doesn't clear the CPU red, delete another track until it does. Once that's happening, record for at least two minutes. If you get any error messages or the CPU goes red, stop and delete another track. If it will record for two minutes with no errors, THAT'S your final "score" or result. Unfortunately, not many people with newer macs have tried it - or if they have, they haven't reported their results. There's a thread on all of this over on the PT LE for windows forum on the DUC in a thread called "PT Performance". I'm getting 24 tracks plus 14 aux tracks now on my self built Athlon XP 1800 system. By way of comparison, an old Mac G4 400 normally gets around 9-10 tracks, and my old PIII 933 MHz Compaq got 19-20 tracks. I really wish more Mac users would report their results or try the test. It's a useful tool for people to know what to expect from various configs, and they can start asking "what's up" if they're getting significantly less than other people with similar systems are reporting...

[Dwarf]

Hey Justin, Just to define what I'm working with, the system is an AMD 1.4Ghz CPU with 512Megs of ram. 1) I'm running a few D-verbs :) The lead vocal, and 3 different backing parts are all using their own reverbs. I've also got reverb on the electric guitar and a stereo reverb on the two acoustics that I bounced together. I may consolodate the backing vox reverbs when I actually mix. :) 2) All the tracks are at 24bit/44.1 Even with 23 tracks I haven't had a problem. 3) By editing I'm referring to all that I mentioned above, plus a little bit of automation. I added some automation on the lead vocals today and also on the guitar solo. I haven't gone crazy with automation, I prefer to get good levels on everything first and then let the track play itself. Too many years doing live sound I guess :) -- Rob

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by Duhduh: [b]1) What plugins are you using? Even if you are only using a couple per track, if your using more than say, 3 D-Verbs your gonna have problems. Ive noticed being able to use almost limitless limiters, compressors and eq's.[/b] Maybe with the Digi plug ins, but not if you've got a real jones for the Bomb Factory 1176, LA-2A, Fairchild and Pultec! [b]2) What bit/sample rate are you using? I dont know what [i]I[/i] may be doing wrong but I cannot get more than 18-20 tracks at 24bit. Ive been recording everything at 16bit 48Khz.[/b] Tell us more about your system. Are you using a second / seperate hard disk dedicated JUST for audio and session files? What are your system resources? HDD brands / sizes and RPM speeds? Mobo? CPU? Amount of RAM? Give us the details (including any error messages / numbers) and we'll see if we can get it sussed out... [/quote]

[Rim]

[quote]Originally posted by Dwarf: [b]1) I'm running a few D-verbs :) The lead vocal, and 3 different backing parts are all using their own reverbs. I've also got reverb on the electric guitar and a stereo reverb on the two acoustics that I bounced together. I may consolodate the backing vox reverbs when I actually mix. :) [/b][/quote]Of any plugin types, reverb is the most CPU-intensive. A quick test is to bypass one reverb at a time. I think bypass should work - otherwise you may actually have to remove it - just don't save the session so you can revert back. You may find removing one or two reverbs will allow you to play the session all the way through. OTOH, you can try removing all other types of plugins and see how many you have to remove before you see a difference. Automation can also hog CPU cycles. When I have to, I copy the WAV of a track and edit it with Sound Forge (or whatever) and import it back in as a different take of the track. I can limit the plugins I use this way but I still have the original track if I need it.

[Philip OKeefe]

Riffing, and besides, you can use DX plug ins that way! ;) I sure hope the XP version that's due out this month will allow that - but I'm not holding my breath. Heck, even Directconnect for PC would be nice... and maybe 32 tracks... and...

[Dwarf]

I figured I'd post an update: Coaster & Phil, you guys were bang on the money. After the resaving, consolodating and getting rid of unused regions the file now plays without any trouble. And the audio folder of the new saved version went from 3 gigs to 300 megs - what a difference! As they say in Spanish: Mooch ass grassy ass (or something like that :) ) -- Rob

[Duhduh]

[quote]Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Duhduh: [b]1) What plugins are you using? Even if you are only using a couple per track, if your using more than say, 3 D-Verbs your gonna have problems. Ive noticed being able to use almost limitless limiters, compressors and eq's.[/b] Maybe with the Digi plug ins, but not if you've got a real jones for the Bomb Factory 1176, LA-2A, Fairchild and Pultec! [b]2) What bit/sample rate are you using? I dont know what [i]I[/i] may be doing wrong but I cannot get more than 18-20 tracks at 24bit. Ive been recording everything at 16bit 48Khz.[/b] Tell us more about your system. Are you using a second / seperate hard disk dedicated JUST for audio and session files? What are your system resources? HDD brands / sizes and RPM speeds? Mobo? CPU? Amount of RAM? Give us the details (including any error messages / numbers) and we'll see if we can get it sussed out... [/quote][/b][/quote]Your right about the Bomb Factory stuff! Im using the same HD for WinMe and audio. I will buy a 2nd HD when finances permit. Here's my setup: P-4 1.5Ghz 512Mb RAM IBM 40G 7200rpm MSI 850Pro5 mobo Sony CDR/W On the Dave_C Test I got 23 tracks w/no aux's. I encountered a new problem today. On only one song I get the -9060 error at the very same spot every time. Its about 10 seconds from the end! Ack! I cant bounce it down! I found NO help on the DUC or the Answerbase.

[Rim]

[quote]Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe: [b]Riffing, and besides, you can use DX plug ins that way! ;) I sure hope the XP version that's due out this month will allow that - but I'm not holding my breath. Heck, even Directconnect for PC would be nice... and maybe 32 tracks... and...[/b][/quote]I actually wrote to Digi with a wish list including DX support. They basically said they have no plans currently for DX support. It was worth a shot. :) I doubt they ever will unless they lose a lot of market share. Ya know, why would a monopoly give up its terrain. :(

[Duhduh]

Monopoly? Digidesign has [i]plently[/i] of competition. I wish they would come out with an 8 channel XLR to ADAT lightpipe I/O.

[where02190]

There's a Davec test post on he MAc PTle DUC bbs, here's the site link, serch for Davec should find it easily: [url=http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=24]http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=24[/UR L] FYI our dual 800 G-4 managed 24 tracks plus 12 aux\'s before hitting the red. XLR to lightpipe, check out [URL=http://www.clmdynamics.com/]http://www.clmdynamics.com/[/url]