article: Alice In Chains Singer Layne Staley Presumed Dead?

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b] [quote]Originally posted by mdpetrick@yahoo.com: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b] Messing around with drugs in your teens and early twenties is one thing. But continuing it way into your thirties is just pathetic.[/b][/quote]Amazing. I didn't know there was an age-range where drug use was considered acceptable. [/b][/quote]I didn't say it was acceptable. But I can see poeple experimenting with it at that age. Sonmething you should grow out of. [/b][/quote]Yeah, well you seem to have forgotten something called ADDICTION. The point at which something ceases to be recreational and starts becoming a way to cope with reality can be a fine line. [quote] [/quote][b]And as far as a tortured past. Boo-fucking-Hoo. A lot of people have had bad shit happen to them when they were young. But grow up, or get some professional help, stop blaming everyone else and take some fucking responsibility. [/b] Boy, you're just all about compassion aren't you? Haven't you heard the saying about not judging people until you've walked a mile in their shoes?

[Tedster]

[quote]Originally posted by pealgrrl: [b]I was hoping he would come out of it :cry: :confused: [/b][/quote]Yeah, it would have been great. But then he would have been playing some concert in Wisconsin and taken a helicopter back to a hotel in Chicago and the damn thing would have crashed into a fog covered hill, or something stupid like that. It's sad enough to see someone self-destruct, but there's nothing sadder than to see someone with a severe substance problem finally recover, only to get killed by some other means.

[Henchman]

[quote]Originally posted by Super 8: Boy, you're just all about compassion aren't you? Haven't you heard the saying about not judging people until you've walked a mile in their shoes?[/QB][/quote]Maybe I have done just that, maybe I know enough people who have too. My wife, being an ex-drug and alcohol counselor, can tell you a few stories too about these losers who blame everyhting on everyone else. Simple. You have choices. You can either choose to change your situation, or you can continue to wallow in self pity and use it as an excuse for your abuse. And my wife knows, because she had a sever drug problem from when she was twelve. Talk about walking amile in her shoes, she has enough stories. But she turned over a new leaf from one day to the next when she got pregnant at the age of 20. Bevause she made a choice. She didn't want to be loser for the rest of her life. Poor little rockstars. Life must suck for them real bad. Boohoohoo. No compassion from me pal. But, I'll give pretty much anyone a helping hand who needs it. I've had friends that had addiction problems, and helped them as much as I could. Some cleaned up. some didn't. Those who did, I'm still very good friends with. Those who didn't could go fuck themselves after a certain point. Mark

[henryrobinett]

I have absolutely ZERO tolerance for junkies. If someone's hell bent to destroy themselves stay the hell away from me. I'll help anyone who has decided they need/want help but junkies and drug addicts tend to take others down with them and the poor sideliners generally don't know what hit them. I have no sympathy either. If you have an addictive personality stay the hell away from that stuff. I see nothing attractive, romantic or seductive or truthful about the "tortured artist", addict who can't deal with the challenges of life and seeks to lose themselve in the needle, pipe, pill or bottle. What absolute LOSERS!!!! I see no other way of looking at it. I can see someone getting caught up and trying to get out. But someone who's not even trying. Fuck them. I know it sounds harsh. They are walking casualties. They tend to be very dangerous because many will take down anyone who is unawre enough and stupid enough to come down with them.

[good morning]

Hey Wewus Just take another placebo; it'll cure what ails. It can start something good, and it can undo what it starts. Absolutely amazing...

[Curve Dominant]

Having had friends who were heroin junkies, I can totally understand ALL sides in this argument. It is just frustrating as hell. You love this person. But they fucked up. But you still love them. But they keep fucking up. They try to change, but this drug has taken over their bodies and transformed their physiology irrevocably, so they can't really change. They can quit, but they're still addicts, always walking that line for the whole rest of their lives. Bottom line: there is virtually no chance of recovery without support from friends and family, which becomes a Catch-22 for everybody involved when the addict falls into remission. It's just painful and frustrating as hell. The addict deserves some compassion, but the peeps who must deal with them on a daily basis deserve even more. I do feel sorry for Layne. He was a talented kid.

[deanmass]

That was one of the best posts I have ever seen here on any subject Curve... Well said....

[The Studio Pet-Rock]

expletive deleted :freak:

[The Studio Pet-Rock]

[quote]Originally posted by mdpetrick@yahoo.com: [b]excerpts from a Rolling Stone interview;[/b][/quote]"I wrote about drugs, and I didn't think I was being unsafe or careless by writing about them," Staley told the magazine. "Here's how my thinking pattern went: When I tried drugs, they were (expletive) great, and they worked for me for years, and now they're turning against me -- and now I'm walking through hell, and this sucks." In the same article, he said: "I'm gonna be here for a long time. I'm scared of death, especially death by my own hand. I'm scared of where I would go. Not that I ever consider that, because I don't." Staley told the magazine he did not want to be seen as a rock god or martyr. "I saw all the suffering that Kurt Cobain went through. I didn't know him real well, but I just saw this real vibrant person turn into a real shy, timid, withdrawn, introverted person who could hardly get a hello out ... At the end of the day or at the end of the party, when everyone goes home, you're stuck with yourself." Doesn't sound to me like a guy who was blaming the world for where he was at. More like someone who was fighting to get past it. The "fuckin' junkie" remarks are pretty tasteless IMHO. Frankly, I'm happy for him. He's done. It doesn't own him anymore. free at last - and forever. Whoever thinks that "rich rockstars" are exempt from pain..... maybe they're just pissed at the circumstances of their own pathetic, failed little excuse for a career. Sorry to tell you - money ain't shit. I wish you luck though. Go for it. Hell, maybe I'll even hear about you hanging yourself one day. :thu:

[henryrobinett]

If you want to "fight to get past it" you have to have the fucking courage to FACE it. You can't face shit imbued with drugs or being shit faced. I've been around it. There ain't nothing I ain't seen. There ain't nothing more tastless than a heroin addict lying in his own feces.

[The Studio Pet-Rock]

[quote]Originally posted by henryrobinett: [b]There ain't nothing I ain't seen.[/b][/quote]Good. The world certainly needs more all-knowing individuals such as yourself. :rolleyes:

[Duhduh]

Wow! Some real junkie-hating going on here! First of all, let me point out that my father is a junkie. I've known him 6 months of my entire life. I have no compassion or sympathy for junkies either. Drug addiction is a choice. Not a sentence. But that should not cancel out their artist credibility at all! Jimmy Page was a junkie and no one is calling HIM a loser! He just didnt kill himself! :) But I feel I need to point something out. After battling with his addiction for years,(not making excuses, but keep in mind how it must be for a rock star to be a junkie: endles cash, lifestyle, people around offering it everywhere, etc.)he finally cleaned up. Alice in Chains released a "Best Of" cd with one new song. A short time after, his girlfriend commited suicide. He fell off the wagon and never recovered. So, I just wanted to point out that it wasnt ONLY a drug addict feeling sorry for himself and hating the world. Thats gotta be some pretty tough shit to deal with. My mother died when I was 19 and ten years later I still have a hard time with it. Drugs were probably the only way Layne knew how to deal. Im sure most of us do the same thing with alcohol or weed. People are most likely gonna say the same thing about him as they did Kurt Cobain. "Rich rockstar had a hard life? Bullshit!" But the thing is, money doesnt mean EVERYTHING to everyone. That doesnt solve everything. But to a junkie, heroine DOES solve everything.....temporarily.

[henryrobinett]

[quote]Originally posted by mdpetrick@yahoo.com: [b] [quote]Originally posted by henryrobinett: [b]There ain't nothing I ain't seen.[/b][/quote]Good. The world certainly needs more all-knowing individuals such as yourself. :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]You're right. The world realy does. The world is a very, very, very fucked up place. If more people had balls it'd be a much better place. What I don't understand is people who defend junkies, crack addicts or alcoholics, as if there's some noble act being ignored. There's nothing noble about drowning in your own vomit. There's nothing admirable about pulling gun on your best friend because you're out of your mind and think "they are" trying to kill you. There's nothing cool about waking up screaming because you're convinced bugs are crawling out of your skin. There's nothing exciting about having to steal from your parents and loved ones to support your habit. Layne Staley killed himself. He may not have intended it but he did. He was miserable. Sad? Of course it's sad. But after awhile sympathy drains. Too many lies. I've seen too many people, too often, too stupid to crawl out of their own holes. You can only help those willing to help themselves.

[Chip McDonald]

There is one point I'd like to make: While I feel sorry for Staley and those surviving him, there *is* something to be said for the "live like a rockstar" attitude that is old hat. I don't know what went on in Staley's life. I do know that his lyrics obliquely glamorized it and I tell you, I'm getting tired of hearing rock songs about how it sucks to be strung out - it's a complete oxymoron. You're strung out, having fits, your life sucks... but hey, at least you get to write about it, record it at Chung King or where ever through nice boutiquey gear, go on the road and play your "Life Sucks Being Strung Out" song in the arenas, maybe snack on some comped sushi backstage (and maybe some other perks of the business), all while having a bank account that leaves you without a monetary care in the world. What SUCKS is eating Ramen noodles , wondering if your car is going to make it to work, tying knots in guitar strings so you can get more mileage out of them, selling your favorite amp to pay the rent. That really SUCKS. I want to hear a "I'm sick of eating Ramen noodles" song... So I feel sorry for Staley, but at the same time he probably had a ton of outs for himself, and probably a pretty cush life along the way. Contrast with Scott Weiland, who seems to almost hides that he has/had a problem; that's quite refreshing, and is as it should be IMO. Because when it comes down to it, it's a PROBLEM, and you're not COOL for having such a PROBLEM, you're an IDIOT. Writing about it knowing it's COOL to do so makes one even more of an IDIOT and a morally bereft one at that. Eventually kids will figure that out, if they haven't already.

[good morning]

Are you tired of Ramen noodles? Is that what you are complaining about? Do you want sympathy for this diet? I'm accused sometimes of being fucking stupid, and maybe I'm having one of those moments. But you really lost me. You said you had a point. I never got it.

[D. Gauss]

looks like jerry cantrell's career's gonna get a big boost now.... -d. gauss

[SF audio]

It seems to me that this generation of overdose/suicide rock stars are wallowing in their own self pity and lack of self-esteem. They got the money,drugs, chics, whatever, but it doesn't matter - the Seattle overcast is stuck in their minds.. I think of the die young crowd 30 years ago - Joplin,Hendrix, Morrison, and I don't get the feeling it was quite the same (maybe someone from that time can let us know?). IMO, Cobain and Staley aren't in the same ballpark, although they might have thought they were....

[Beatheavy]

hey kudyba I emailed you back. check it out. I asked some questions on how i might be able to cut the size down on the avatar. Hit me back. [b]ATOMIX![/b] :evil:

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by swright50@excite.com: [b]Are you tired of Ramen noodles? Is that what you are complaining about? Do you want sympathy for this diet? I'm accused sometimes of being fucking stupid, and maybe I'm having one of those moments. But you really lost me. You said you had a point. I never got it.[/b][/quote]Staley was a rich rock star that had plenty of things to look at positively in his life. Writing about being messed up by drugs has been done many, many times before, and given that one DOES have a nice life, it's stupid - not cool - to screw it up. It's an oxymoron to write about how bad your life sucks when you're a rock star, because it DOESN'T - unless you messed it up yourself. In which case one could write about how one was stupid, but no one seems to do that. Instead, they write about the catharsis of it, which is patently glamorizing it. It's also easier than coming up with an original idea. Staley was good at it, good at wrapping a warped twist to it, and great at delivering it vocally.

[D. Gauss]

i guess the "rooster" finally got snuffed... :) -d. gauss

[Curve Dominant]

Layne, Although we're sad that you aren't around anymore, we know you feel happy that we don't have to worry about you anymore. Vaya con Dios, hermano...

[nursers]

I just love the 'junkies-suck, I-had-problems-and-I-got-over-them, they-just-need-to-make-a-choice' mentality. Same 'all in the one basket' sterotypes as other gems like: 'All drummers are dumb' 'All taxi-drivers are of ethnic origin' etc etc etc The mind-numbing lack of awareness surrounding alcohol and other drug issues is astounding. The variance in people who use drugs goes from one-time only recreational user to full-time, heavy addict. And there are a million points in between, all with different causes, solutions etc. To believe anything else is to base your beliefs on the meat-headed Jerry Springer view of the world. :rolleyes:

[The Studio Pet-Rock]

[quote]Originally posted by Chip McDonald: [b]It's an oxymoron to write about how bad your life sucks when you're a rock star, because it DOESN'T - unless you messed it up yourself. [/b][/quote]I certainly would love to know where you get your logic from, chip. Ever been a "rock star"? Yeah, it must be great though - everyone wanting a piece of you at any cost, scrutinizing every fucking little thing you say & do, talking (and writing)shit about you. Not everyone is born with the thick skin required to cope with all that "great" stuff. What good is all that money if you're confined by fame? The freedom that so many people take for granted becomes the one thing you want the most. Anonymity becomes to the "rock star" what "making it" is to the kid still struggling - playing bars/coffee shops for a pittance. Money is required to live, but to insinuate that having it is a [i]reason[/i] to live is simply preposterous.

[Rog]

Wow, there certainly are some fucking stupid individuals posting on this thread. I never met the guy but if he chose heroin (and always, after a while heroin always chooses you) then that's his decision. It's a very hard drug to kick because it's also a very, very good one to take in terms of the high (so I'm told) A little more compassion and understanding and less of this fucking attitude that 'oh, he's just a junkie' would help addicts a lot more. They need support and, as a member of the human race who gives a shit, I'll try my best to help people. Even when you offer help and they can't/won't get clean, the important thing is that you offered. The 'fuck 'em' attitude here stinks. Although a rock star had problems, next time it could easily be your brother, sister or friend. You you just going to say fuck 'em then?

[thisDude]

While I would hate to see his death turned into a media circus, I am surprised by the LACK of coverage that it has recieved. Even if you didn't like his music or his "habits" or whatever, you have to respect his artistry. He was one hell of a talented singer with great range (although maybe not lyrically) and his influence is all over the place. SUX... :(

[The Studio Pet-Rock]

[quote]Originally posted by SF audio: [b]I think of the die young crowd 30 years ago - Joplin,Hendrix, Morrison, and I don't get the feeling it was quite the same (maybe someone from that time can let us know?). IMO, Cobain and Staley aren't in the same ballpark, although they might have thought they were....[/b][/quote]Oh, was this a Death Competition? Huh. So who's the winner - in your opinion? Not sure what "ballpark" you're pitching from, but maybe you've a bit too much sand in your shoes.

[strat0124]

People can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned, long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Thats where I draw the line. So if some investment banker wants to snort up, or if some washed out rocker wants to shoot molten lava into his veins......so be it. Sounds sorta Libertarian doesn't it......odd coming from a damn near Marxist. :) But folks you gotta know that drug laws were put into place to control and punish the poor. Sorta a placebo for social ills.

[henryrobinett]

[quote]Originally posted by Geenard Skeenard: [b]People can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned, long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.[/b][/quote]You know I feel EXACTLY the same way. My only difference not stated above is if you're a drug addict stay away, unless you're willing to accept help from me. I'll be there. I'll give you more than one chance too. MAYBE more than two. Same goes for a family member. If you're a banker and I see you're doing coke I won't do business with you. If I hire you from a gig and I see you getting high on the break I'll tell you that ain't happening on my gig. If I see you continue you aren't hired again, no matter who you are. That's my policy and it's no secret. But I can't and won't TELL YOU HOW TO LIVE YOUR LIFE. That's up to you buddy. But I will remove you from my life if it runs up against mine. But I've been and continue to be a counselor for some addicts. I also work with prisoners; teach them music and help them with life choices. That's my effort to contribute. If we all contributed something to the world instead of just complaining all the time this WOULD be a better place. You see I'll complain but I'll also do something about it, sometimes.

[Wewus432]

I'd like to say just this: Layne, we hardly knew ya

[SF audio]

[quote]Originally posted by mdpetrick@yahoo.com: [b] [quote]Originally posted by SF audio: [b]I think of the die young crowd 30 years ago - Joplin,Hendrix, Morrison, and I don't get the feeling it was quite the same (maybe someone from that time can let us know?). IMO, Cobain and Staley aren't in the same ballpark, although they might have thought they were....[/b][/quote]Oh, was this a Death Competition? Huh. So who's the winner - in your opinion? Not sure what "ballpark" you're pitching from, but maybe you've a bit too much sand in your shoes.[/b][/quote]Just my opinion - don't think the grunge "pioneers" such as Nirvana, Chains, etc., are as timeless as the rock brigade of the late 60's/early 70's. A guy like Kurt Cobain thought of himself as such a pioneer. Blew his brains out at 27 (magical rock star suicide age) - maybe to immortalize himself? Who knows. 10 years from now, We'll still be saying Hendrix was the shit, and Nirvana will be on the B list.....