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Yamaha AW4416 limitations


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Hi Can you please explain how can you record tracks without causing playback MUTING during recording on the AW4416? e.g. If i record let say 4 tracks at one go, can i listen to the first 4 while recording new 4 tracks? If i record another 4, can i playback the first 8? If i record the last 4, can i playback the previous 12 tracks? WITHOUT MUTING OF TRACKS DURING PLAYBACK Is the above method MUTING PROOF or i'm wrong? Can the above method be performed at 6 tracks at a time without experience muting? I have downloaded the manual of the AW4416 and i cannot understand that part of the table were it says that while you record 3-4 tracks in 24bit mode you will have 4 tracks muted during playback(pg147). The same thing for the remaining list in the table. And what about the 16bit mode? Can i record 8 tracks at one go? After finishing the first 8 can i hear these 8 tracks while recording another 8 at one go? Can someone help? Thanking you in advance Horus28
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Horus, I don't recall the specifics of how many tracks are muted in each case, but yes, the AW will automatically mute some tracks when you record. The good news is that you can select WHICH tracks are muted by pressing the TRACK button and muting (or unmuting) tracks manually. That way you can keep drums, bass, and rhythm guitar on and mute stuff like strings and pads. Hope this helps!

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Hi Dan, Thanks for your reply. So, what do you think of the AW4416? is it a good machine, Do you recommend it? Another thing what do you think about the effects processors inside the machine? I've heared that the preamps are not good quality, is it true that you need an outboard Mic preamp for a better sound? Thanking you in advance Horus
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[quote]Originally posted by horus: [b] Thanks for your reply. So, what do you think of the AW4416? is it a good machine, Do you recommend it?[/b] I've got two, and I love 'em. [b]Another thing what do you think about the effects processors inside the machine?[/b] Roughly equal to a REV500 in sound quality, although they are quieter overall. If you're looking for more / "better" effects, the Waves Y56K card is also available. It adds up to 8 more effects "chains" to the system, as well as Digital Lightpipe I/O, and goes for about $700. [b]I've heared that the preamps are not good quality, is it true that you need an outboard Mic preamp for a better sound?[/b] The preamps are a "weak link" in the AW system. Not because they sound bad (they actually sound very good - pretty clean / transparent) but because they have LOW gain - about 45 dB maximum gain. This is fine for use with most condenser mics, and for use when close micing with dynamic mics, but you may find yourself wishing you had more gain if you work with very quiet sources (softly fingerpicked acoustic guitars) and / or "distant" mic techniques. You can forget about using ribbon mics with them (except for the new phantom powered Royer mic) because there's just not enough gain available - you usually need at least 60 dB of gain for most ribbon mics. I really love the AW4416 - it's got the one feature that matters most to me - GREAT sonics. The automation is top notch too. With a few outboard preamps and interfaced to a computer DAW, it's an AMAZINGLY powerful system. I highly recommend it. Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aw4416 for the user's group - lots of great info in the archives, and lots of helpful folks who will gladly answer any questions you may have. [/quote]
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Hi Phil, Thanks for your reply. Since you have two AW's you are experienced on the machine and i would like to ask you something. Could you please explain to me what is this RECORDING/PLAYBACK limitation in both 16bit and 24 bit mode? Is there a way in which MUTING of tracks during playback is not possible? Does this limitation causes any problems to you when making music? Another thing, is it true that if muting kicks in the machine will automatically mute the empty (non recorded)tracks first? Thanking you in advance Horus
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[quote]Originally posted by horus: [b]Hi Phil, Thanks for your reply. Since you have two AW's you are experienced on the machine and i would like to ask you something. Could you please explain to me what is this RECORDING/PLAYBACK limitation in both 16bit and 24 bit mode?[/b] Sure. In 16 bit mode, you can record all 16 tracks at once. Same for 24 bit mode. Where it gets interesting is when you first record FEWER than 16 tracks, and then start overdubbing. In 24 bit mode, when you "arm" tracks: Arm 1 track: 2 tracks muted Arm 2 tracks: 2 tracks muted Arm 3 tracks: 4 tracks muted Arm 4 tracks: 4 tracks muted Arm 5-8 tracks: 8 tracks muted Arm 9 (or more) tracks: All tracks mute Once you "arm" the tracks, the AW automatically starts muting tracks. It starts at the highest number track (16) and works "down" from there (ie 15/16 are first to get muted, then 13/14, etc.) You can still hear mixer CHANNELS (and your inputs) when tracks are muted, just not the tracks playing back off the hard disk. In actual pratice, this is usually not a hassle on a 16 track recorder. Chances are that if you're going to be recording more than 1-2 tracks at once, it's going to be your "rhythm" or "basic" tracks, and thereafter, you'll be doing only a track or two at a time as overdubs. And as Dan correctly pointed out, you can just mute a couple of tr tracks you DON'T need to hear as urgently (percussion, background vocals, string pads - whatever) and UNmute the tracks you DO need to hear. In 16 bit mode, you can arm up to 8 tracks and no muting occurs. Arm that 9th track, and all 16 tracks are muted. [b]Is there a way in which MUTING of tracks during playback is not possible?[/b] Not sure I understand what you're asking here. In PLAYBACK, muting is a non-issue. All 16 tracks play back together, along with your inputs on the mixing board (up to 24 mixer inputs from a wide variety of sources, as well as two stereo effects returns). Muting only happens when recording, in the manner I outlined above. [b]Does this limitation causes any problems to you when making music?[/b] Nope. None at all. Again, just mute what you DON'T need to hear while doing a particular overdub. If you absolutely MUST hear all the previously recorded tracks, you can do tricks like submix everything to a pair of "virtual tracks", monitor THOSE instead of the individual tracks while doing the overdub, and then recall the original tracks when you go to mix. This is also a nice way to get more than 16 TOTAL tracks out of a single aw when mixing - you can do submixes something like this: 8 original drum tracks - submixed to 2 tracks 4 original Bkgrnd Vox tracks - submixed to 2 tracks 12 keyboard tracks - submixed to 2 tracks That's 24 tracks of stuff, on only 6 tracks. But what if you don't like the submix as you're doing the FINAL mix? Just recall the original tracks, and re-submix them. Since you can save "scenes", you can recall the way you originally did the submix and tweak it a bit, save the new scene and go right back to where you were in the mix. Having 128 virtual tracks and full recall memory makes it MUCH easier to do submixes than it was back in the days of 8 track reel to reels, where you had to erase the OLD material in order to utilize the tracks for new material after you did a submix. Back then, if you did a submix and didn't like the results, you were stuck with it. Not anymore... [b]Another thing, is it true that if muting kicks in the machine will automatically mute the empty (non recorded)tracks first?[/b] Depends on where you recorded first. :) If you start recording on track 1 and work your way towards track 16, then yes. It always starts muting at track 15/16 and then works its way "down" in track numbers. [b]Thanking you in advance[/b] Not a problem. Hope this helps. It's a great machine. I really love mine - both of them. BTW, the price is so low these days ($2,200 USA) that getting a pair is within the reach of a lot of people... or getting a single one and something like a Digi 001 and a couple option cards for the AW for doing computer editing and flying in extra tracks from the computer at mixdown is a very powerful / synergistic combination that you may want to consider. [/quote]
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Arm 1 track: 2 tracks muted Arm 2 tracks: 2 tracks muted Arm 3 tracks: 4 tracks muted Arm 4 tracks: 4 tracks muted Arm 5-8 tracks: 8 tracks muted Arm 9 (or more) tracks: All tracks mute Once you "arm" the tracks, the AW automatically starts muting tracks. It starts at the highest number track (16) and works "down" from there (ie 15/16 are first to get muted, then 13/14, etc.) Hi Phil, Thanks... This means that if you arm tracks 1 and 2 it will mute tracks 15 and 16, right?. After recording tracks 1 and 2 i will arm track 3 and 4. Since i will arm track 3 and 4, it means that it will mute 15 and 16 for the second time and hear track 1 and 2 as playback? What i mean is if you start assigning two tracks at a time it will mute tracks 15 and 16 only till you reach tracks 15/16? Is this right? My example: Arm track 1 and 2: 15/16 muted Arm Track 3 and 4: 15/16 muted while listening to 1,2 Arm track 5 and 6: 15/16 muted while listening to 1,2,3,4 Arm track 7 and 8: 15/16 muted while listening to 1,2,3,4,5,6 Arm track 9 and 10: 15/16 muted while listening to 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Arm...etc Does the above example applies for both 16 and 24bit? So arming 2 tracks at a time would not be a problem since ONLY tracks 15 and 16 will be muted until you reach track 15 and 16. Am i right? Sorry for asking to much but i would like to close up this issue once and for all. I really appreciate your kind help, Phil. Thanking you in advance Horus :)
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horus i would like to add a bit here. the muting example you gave is correct but it only applies to 24-bit recording. as phil pointed out, muting only happens when you arm more that 8 tracks at once. one thing that may be causing you some confusion is the fact that when you arm a track and the 4416 automatically mutes a pair of tracks , that remain muted until you either clear it in the track windows or press the 'all safe' button. simply disarming tracks does not un-mute the muted tracks. if you leave the 4416 in this state, the tracks will remain muted when you playback. what i do is use the 'all safe' button before playback.
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Horus, The number of tracks that are muted (if any) depends on the number of tracks you already have recorded PLUS the number you are currently recording, added together. In a 24 bit song, you can have up to 14 tracks playing at once while recording on either or both of the other 2. So if you've already recorded 14 tracks and then try to record on the 15th track, you have to mute a track before you begin recording or the AW will mute one for you. If you're recording on 15 and 16, you have to mute two tracks. If you have 12 tracks recorded already and you only want to record on one or two more tracks, no muting will happen at all, but if you try to record on 3 more at the same time, you have to mute one, and if recording on all 4 remaining tracks at once, you have to mute 2. And so on. Like Phil says, there's usually something that it isn't critical to be listening to while overdubbing, since you usually have to mute 1 or 2 tracks at most. And even if you can't live without some tracks, again like Phil says you can do a submix and overdub to that. Once everything is recorded, all 16 tracks play back just fine. --Lee
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