Faeflora Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 I thought that this article was pretty interesting. It talks about treating tinnitus by sensitizing the ear to the ringing frequencies. url=http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992065]HERE's the link to the article.[/url] If you live in the Washington Metro area, check out Slave Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Thanx for the link,maybe there's hope after all.Ginko doesn't really help that much(for me anyway),plus I don't have astraunot's Alan Shepards money for the kind of surgery he had. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992065 Here's the link again. The article has some anti-copy script going. It is well worth reading, as I am concluding that this "sensitizing" is probably working on phase principles. I wonder if this is how they got on this track. It seems if they knew the specific environment that caused the ailment then they would have a better chance of finding the correct out of phase tone to cancel out the ringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 It's usually a problem at night when trying to sleep or when in a VERY quiet environment. Otherwise, during the day, at work, or outside...the tinnitus is almost always "masked" by other sounds. Best/easiest way to deal with it is just turn on a radio at night...loud enough to mask the tinnitus but low enough to let you sleep...a nice classical station works well (no vocals). After a few days you will get use to the radio and it will actually act as a natural sleeping pill...especially if you stay with the same style of music. There are also many of those noise boxes...rain, ocean waves, birds chirping...etc. miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.prometheus-design.com Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Best cure for ear fatigue I have found is a couple beers :) I was treated for titinus and some hearing loss after 5 years in a drum line and 3 of those spent practicing 5 hours a day. They gave me little blue pills to stick in my ears and sure enough after about 2 years my ears quit ringing. Never regained what I lost in the left ear, but I swear they eventually balanced out and not I can't tell a difference. Damn rim shots :) pd :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cg1155 Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 OK lets talk tinnitus. Your ear works in very interesting ways. If you're interested in the gory details I can post them, but lets cut to the chase by saying that neurons (nerve cells) eventually carry electrical signals to the brain telling it what frequencies are hitting the ear right now. In tinnitus the neurons are firing too much, and you hear the frequency represented by these neurons all the time - pretty annoying. It is important to point out that this ringing isn't a real sound - it's not that these people are sensitive to this particular sound - but just a bunch of neurons firing. So in this study they did something that actually we've known about for a long time. They applied a real sound that was the same freq as the sound the neurons thought they heard, and eventually the neurons became desensitized and the ringing improved. You can actually ruin your hearing this way if you don't have tinnitus - think of when you get off a plane and everything sounds funny. Your ears adjusted to the plane's engine noise and now that it's not there the ear has to readjust. The ear is really neat, and as musicians it's helpful to know how it works. -Casey Glass Penn State College of Medicine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by cg1155: [b]...They applied a real sound that was the same freq as the sound the neurons thought they heard, and eventually the neurons became desensitized and the ringing improved. You can actually ruin your hearing this way if you don't have tinnitus...[/b][/quote]My concerns exactly. I would think that you could ruin your ears this way even if you have tinnitus. Yeah...you might de-sensitize your nerves for the tinnitus frequancy(s) that is/are bothering you...but then...the nerves are now forever(?) desensitized to those frequencies...so, you end up with possible frequency holes in your hearing...? I'm sure science will eventually figure out how to "reset" those nerves back to "neutral" rather than to just de-sensitize them. miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuri T. Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 I'm no specialist but my understanding is that in the cochlea (a nautilus like spiral in the ear) is filled with fluid and millions of hairlike cilia. Certain cilia are sensitive to different frequencies. I thought tinnitis and hearing loss were caused by damaged cilia and cannot be reversed. However the way the brain processes the information can change. I think after time with many tinnitus cases the ringing eventually goes away as the brain adjusts. I know my case has improved over time. Especially after I quit running live sound. I suppose getting away from the high volume offending frequencies helped a lot too. Either way those frequencies are likely lost for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cg1155 Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Yuri is mostly right, except it is the neurons that the cilia attach to that end up with the problem. The cilia themselves are pretty much just a mechanical switch - either they are working or they're not. -Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioMaverick Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Hey guys, you are all mostly right. I was hit with Tinnitus about 7 or 8 months ago. I did a lot of reading. Ringing in the ears (as it were) manifests in several different ways. But, basically, there are 2 major drivers -- false signals and damaged folicals. Some people experience tinnitus realted noise as a result of exposing the ears to noises too loud for them for prolonged periods of time. Others just inherit the false neuron signal problem. And, others can have factors like stress and illness affect them. Mine is a little of all three. I had some ringing in a very minute way for some 15 years (my mother has it). I used to DJ, and now I record bands. Then, I got this radical infetion in both ear canals. It has subsided a lot, but I tend have days where it is either not noticable or way too loud. I tried the radio trick, but found I tend to roll over on my side. When my ear hits the pillow, I can't hear the radio in that ear. I saw the last part of a really short news article about someone in Europe who was "reactivating" fallen ear folicals by inducing an utra-sound vibration on the skull just behind the ear. If anyone else knows of this method, I'd like to read more on this. The induced noise exposure idea seems believable to me. I work around computers all day long. I am exposed to monitors and hard drives that I can hear. Sometimes, I think I can hear my tinnitus begin to reasonate with device (like a 15000 RPM SCSI drive), if I have to hang around the machine for a while. You can bet I try to walk around and get away from these things for a while... like I am about to do! As aids to the ringing problem, I have found chewing gum lightly (no mashing the teeth) and avoiding crunching ice (my favorite bad habbit) to help greatly. I have found that my jaw muscles get tight a lot (nick named TMJ or TMD... you can read up on it a [url=http://www.webmd.com).]www.webmd.com).[/url] I stole the ball out of a broken computer mouse and roll it around on these muscles when driving to and from work. Working out the tight spots helps me, dramatically. As a sleep aid, a natural herb called *Valerian Root* in extract form (between 300mG and 450mG) to help sleep. You can't take this every night. But if you are within 2 hours of the time you want to sleep, and the ringing is getting pretty bad, one of these will help a lot. I don't have time to spell check, sorry for the typos. Hope some of you find this info helpful. Anybody else? "It's all about the... um-m-m, uh-h-h..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I am dead sure I have tinnitus. I can't fucking sleep today. Almost couldn't sleep last night. I recently attended an acoustic performance. The last band was loud enough that I had to move to the back of the room. It was a small room though. But I knew when I couldn't handle it. The ringing seems worse than it has been, I've had it for quite awhile. I guess writing music with headphones only will do that. But I don't want anyone hearing my stuff around home. I do mix w/ monitors though. Anyway, I dunno what's on the horizon for this. I wonder if stem cells might help? I don't care if theres a $20,000 surgery that works. I'll take it. Hair or hearing, hmm... tough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbach1 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I was diagnosed with tinnitus a few years ago. I don't know anything about the technicalities of tinnitus, I just know that the ringing in my ears is constant and does not stop. Mine is bad enough that it does not have to be quiet for me to hear it. I hear it all the time. My doctor has told me repeatedly that there is no treatment for it. Frankly, if it gets much worse, I would relent to a treatment described in the article even knowing that it could harm my ability to hear pitches in that range altogether. It would be nice to shut it off. Too bad they can't invent a switch to turn it off when you need a break from it and then switch it back on when you need your full hearing capacity. For now, I just tolerate it. I find it best to concentrate on ignoring it. That in itself can keep me plenty busy on given days. bbach Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Interesting to read some of your comments. I've been living with tinitus for over twenty years due to a decade of playing in rock bands followed by 7 years of using circular saws and routers on a daily basis. Fortunately, I'm in an office environment now. Although the ringing is constant I'm most aware of it when things are pretty quiet like at night, waiting to fall asleep. However I've found that an ambient noise box dialed in to 'white noise' and also running a small fan in the room does a very good job of masking the ringing. Other times that I'm particularly aware of it: When I get home from work on a gusty day and get out of the car the wind really sets off the ringing. The funny thing is that sometimes on days like that the volumetric burglar alarm will have been set off in the house and as I'm walking toward the door there are a few moments when I couldn't tell you for $100 whether the ringing is coming from inside my head or inside the house. Or then there's the problem of trying to locate a cricket in the room couldn't do it for $1000. Ha! Related to the notion that the ringing is caused by the brain trying to process a phantom sound signal from the dead neurons, there is a technique I've found that actually helps reduce the intensity of the ringing. I guess it's sort of a biofeedback gambit. It derives from a meditation technique learned back in the freshman college days in '72 (okay go ahead and laugh, turn on black light and light some incense ~smile~) But damn it, it works: Sit still in a quite place and focus your attention on the high-frequency ringing sound inside your head. Locate the fundamental frequency of the sound and then listen for the next highest frequency overtone that you can detect within it. Focus your relaxed attention on that sound. Notice that as you become more focused on the higher hz sound that the intensity of the first fundamental frequency diminishes. DO NOT tighten your vocal chords when reaching for the higher frequency. It seems tempting to do that, the way a singer might do when reaching for a higher note. But you just want to relax and listen. I've found that this will reduce the over-all volume of the ringing. Maybe it's a relaxation response that simply down the neurological activity. I dunno. But it helps Hooper music at http://www.abjconstruction.net/hoop.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbach1 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 [quote]Originally posted by Hooper: [b]Sit still in a quite place and focus your attention on the high-frequency ringing sound inside your head. Locate the fundamental frequency of the sound and then listen for the next highest frequency overtone that you can detect within it. Focus your relaxed attention on that sound. Notice that as you become more focused on the higher hz sound that the intensity of the first fundamental frequency diminishes. DO NOT tighten your vocal chords when reaching for the higher frequency. It seems tempting to do that, the way a singer might do when reaching for a higher note. But you just want to relax and listen. I've found that this will reduce the over-all volume of the ringing. Maybe it's a relaxation response that simply down the neurological activity. I dunno. But it helps [/b][/quote]Is this like entering a state of Kal Nori? Should we start calling you Tealc? :D bbach Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 'Is this like entering a state of Kal Nori? Should we start calling you Tealc?' Well, you see...part of the problem with your ears ringing all the time is that after a while it drives you crazzzzzzzzzeeee!!! ;) :D Hooper music at http://www.abjconstruction.net/hoop.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Wing Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 This isn't tinnitus, but my computer monitor emits a high pitched noise. Turn off the monitor and the noise goes away. Its driving me crazy; I can't stand it. My 14 year old son, who sings in several chorus groups at school, doesn't hear it. There are two theories about arguing with a woman. Neither one works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblue1 Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 After many years of loud music, wind noise on motorcycles and driving with the windows down, as well as exposure to noisy machines and background noises (including the 'emergency' air conditioner in my old studio)... I, too, have a certain amount of tinnitus. Sad to say, many of you guys seem to be much more problematically afflicted than I. There's always a certain amount of ringing, but I seldom notice it unless it's very, very quiet. But every once in a while, the ringing cranks up to a very noticeable high, sustained pitch -- and sometimes [i]my hearing on one side or the other (usually the left) goes almost completely out.[/i] I have a 'first aid' for these incidents -- I manipulate the 'flap' or 'tab' over the ear, closing or partially closing the opening of the ear canal, and gently manipulating this opening until the loud ringing goes (mostly) away (usually in a few seconds). Somewhere, after I discovered this trick, I read that ringing, or at least some ringing, is related to a 'feedback'-like situation in the ear mechanism. This seems a bit unlikely as I read the more scientifically oriented explanations above. But it works. For me. For now. bookmark these: news.google.com | m-w dictionary | wikipedia encyclopedia | Columbia Encyclopedia TK Major / one blue nine | myspace.com/onebluenine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeton Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 [b]Or then there's the problem of trying to locate a cricket in the room couldn't do it for $1000. Ha![/b] Yep. At night. Quiet Room. [i]Crickets[/i]. Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, doesn't matter. All I hear are [i]Crickets[/i]. [i]Nasssssty Cricketses!! We hateses them!! We hateses them forever!![/i] Interesting article and discussion though, i give it my :thu: . I've come to grips with the ringing and crickets (though there was a time when it drove me f*cking mad- iirc Bruce Willis once nearly committed suicide due to tinnitis), my source of discontent is my hearing loss in the upper registers. All from one band in one small club- the time i forgot to bring ear plugs was the time i needed them the most. Like AudioMaverick mentioned- the flyback transformers in the backs of CRTs and TV sets, along with the oscillations of computer power supplies and stuff- i used to hear all those things quite clearly. I remember sneaking out at night when i was a teenager, and walking down a really quiet road. Even though the houses were a hundred feet or so from the road, i could tell my friends which ones had TV sets on in them, from the high-pitched noises that TVs make. I can't hear any of that stuff anymore. And while i'm not *deaf* (and probably have hearing that is as good as or even still slightly better than the average person) it's more that I [i]know[/i] i lost something there that upsets me. :-( I too would be interested in any info about the pulses of sound that "stand the fallen cilia back up". It's (interestingly) something i've hypothesized about. [b]But every once in a while, the ringing cranks up to a very noticeable high, sustained pitch -- and sometimes my hearing on one side or the other (usually the left) goes almost completely out. [/b] This happens to me too :eek: ... I typically assumed that it was actually allergy/sinus related, because when that happens it feels like there is pressure in my ear as well (like it's full of water, or that i'm underwater). It kind of hurts just a little bit, too, and it ever so slightly affects my balance. In my case, it usually resolves itself completely without any manipulation inside of a couple of minutes, though. Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper . WWND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyeightkeys Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I have a rather unusual form of tinnitus. I think. Since I constructed the new studio in the new house I've contracted a form of [b]low frequency tinnitus[/b]. If I listen to loud(er) music, a loud movie or a power tool etc....I'll get a low frequency drone or hum in my [b]right ear only.[/b] The drone is a particular frequency and can be constant or intermittent. I went to the ear specialist and he cleaned out the wax in my ears and did a series of tests but found no hearing loss or inner ear or nerve problems at all. Sometimes a tumor can cause this kind of [b]one ear'ed[/b] tinnitus. So, what to do ? It may go away, especially if it was some form of ear infection or an unusually gentle form of Bells Palsy. If I don't listen to any noise/music, it's usually not there at all. Any herbal supplements to revitalize the ears ? Viagra for the cilia ? Boing ! eightyeightkeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioMaverick Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Phait, thank you for reviving this 38 month old thread! Always important for people to be aware of this issue... I have not seen a repeat of the ultra-sound technique since it was aired on a news article. I remember the device and how it was supposed to work. I still search the Internet, periodically. I have since tried a few Asian and Chinese relaxation and exercise methods. One of them is to do a pressure massage on the muscle between the ear and temple. I use the middle finger to put pressure on the muscle and make quarter-inch rotations as I move along the muscles. Also, doing neck rotations to work out tense neck muscles from bad sitting posture help. As mentioned in other tinnitus threads, I have found that the ringing is worse when I spend a few days drinking heavy amounts of caffeine. Orange/black pekoe (i.e. - Lipton & Tetley) are my weakness and what usually flares it up. I have a shoulder injury with several damaged muscles, right now. And, I am having a cyclic flare up of ringing. Some days are really quiet, and others are really loud (like today). Thank goodness for the medication! d-dmusic, I used to get that low frequency pulsation, too. I used to be able to hear the 18Hz my old 18" woofers. But, as my hearing has been tapering off at the upper and lower extremes, that has gone away. The left ear cutting out with a right ear ring is common with males. I just had an episode, yesterday. A friend was over and started using a hammer near me (oops), which set it off. My left ear has felt like it has something in it since the tinnitus started. Always pressure. Flavanoids/Flavanol -- this is the supposed grail for ringing ears. It is found in great abundance in green teas. It takes a while to get used to, but much better to get hooked on than sodas! Protect those ears! Many people who have lost their hearing from constant loud noises only hear the tinnitus ringing. I think that would suck... "It's all about the... um-m-m, uh-h-h..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Flavanoids in green tea... I drink green tea, love it. But haven't noticed any decline in the ring. I'm sure it's not a magical solution, but it hasn't eased anything even noticeably. I suppose we're all different though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeton Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 [b]I drink green tea, love it. But haven't noticed any decline in the ring. [/b] Maybe if you didn't drink it, you'd hear air raid sirens? Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper . WWND? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phait Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Ok, this is bothering me enough that I am considering no longer doing any music. Which really blows, because I have like 3 kinds of albums in mind that I want to get done in my lifetime. And I can't do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echoshock Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Phait I really feel for you. Like it was said above, thanks for reviving this thread. I'm kinda new to the forum and it reminded me to ask a question I've been thinking about. Does anybody have info on 'musician's earplugs'? I've heard you can get them custom made to fit you and they aren't the big ugly orange things that stick out of your ears. I mostly want these for everyday use such as concerts and even bars which seem to be louder than concerts lately. But again, I hope you can find the help you need to fix the problem. Thanks for helping me and others to be more proactive in preventing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfish Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 a good source for ear protection is actually gun shops/shows. There are lots of different types of custom in ear sound dampeners, from expensive jobs that are 'poured' to fit your ear to other more commercial one-size fits types. The great thing about buying these at gun shows is they are cheaper and it bulk, and you get to laugh at all the crazies trying to buy uzi's! (take notes, they may live near you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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