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One day your DAW will be lofi


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Just reading my new TapeOp and after reading Larry Crane's last word, realizing that I was once HiFi, and lofi wasn't even a term anybody used back then. Which makes me think that at the rate tech is moving, soon all these DAW's that are kicking in the teeth of the majors everywhere, will one day be considered lofi....funny huh? Well it is to me. I guess that means that by then I will be considered NoFi, which is even funnier.....well at least to me. So the next time anybody has a passing inner thought of home studio inferiority, just remember why and how you record is soooo much more important than what you're saving your stuff to.....again, at least to me. By the way, I still drool at every new gear mag that comes in my mailbox.......and I have to think God knew what he was doing when he didn't make me ultra rich......I call it ECGAS......Economically Challenged Gear Aquisition Syndrome!!!!! SO...in closing.....all I have to say is welcome brothers and sisters....to the kingdom of Lofi!!!!!!!!!! :)
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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Digital IS lo-fi; digi desks, PT, Waves plugs, etc. are generally crap in comparison to their analogue counterparts. Just look at the shite which is produced with them. CD is lo-fi. Digi is way cheaper - a decent PC will run Nuendo and allow you to make an album but these albums don't sound too good to me (and I use Nuendo!) Add up the cost of a quality analogue desk, one or two good 2" 24 (or 16) tracks and some serious outboard. Controversial? me? :D
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards.
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[quote]Originally posted by KHAN: [b]Oh Lord. Stuck in LoFi again. :thu: [/b][/quote]Man that was RIGHT on time....excellent.... :) :)
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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>> Digi is way cheaper - a decent PC will run Nuendo and allow you to make an album but these albums don't sound too good to me (and I use Nuendo!) Add up the cost of a quality analogue desk, one or two good 2" 24 (or 16) tracks and some serious outboard. Controversial? me? >> ----- Actually, no. I can't imagine too many who honestly feel that they are getting state-of-the-art sound with a computer and $800 worth of hardware/software. For $800, the audio sounds surprisingly good. Really good for the money. However, I doubt that most feel this sounds as good as $100,000 board and a nice 24 track 2". I think that people are getting used to the sound of something recorded with relatively cheap A/D & D/A converters, and that this sounds "normal" to a new generation of listeners who grew up listening largely to music that was recorded and edited on a computer, just like the previous generations grew up used to something that was recorded on a console that you can land an airplane on and a big, whirring tape machine. My personal opinion is that good digital sounds -- well, good. I still don't like the sound of cheap converters. It sounds very flat and 2-dimensional to me, even when mixed well. I am amazed that it sounds that good for the price. However, I am also amazed that major label releases often sound flat and 2-dimensional and cheap when we all know that better audio is possible.
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[quote]Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows: [b]>> Digi is way cheaper - a decent PC will run Nuendo and allow you to make an album but these albums don't sound too good to me (and I use Nuendo!) Add up the cost of a quality analogue desk, one or two good 2" 24 (or 16) tracks and some serious outboard. Controversial? me? >> ----- Actually, no. I can't imagine too many who honestly feel that they are getting state-of-the-art sound with a computer and $800 worth of hardware/software. For $800, the audio sounds surprisingly good. Really good for the money. However, I doubt that most feel this sounds as good as $100,000 board and a nice 24 track 2". I think that people are getting used to the sound of something recorded with relatively cheap A/D & D/A converters, and that this sounds "normal" to a new generation of listeners who grew up listening largely to music that was recorded and edited on a computer, just like the previous generations grew up used to something that was recorded on a console that you can land an airplane on and a big, whirring tape machine. My personal opinion is that good digital sounds -- well, good. I still don't like the sound of cheap converters. It sounds very flat and 2-dimensional to me, even when mixed well. I am amazed that it sounds that good for the price. However, I am also amazed that major label releases often sound flat and 2-dimensional and cheap when we all know that better audio is possible.[/b][/quote]The argument gets spicy when you consider the PT user who spent god know how much and think they're getting HI FI ;)
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards.
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I'm with Ken. The sound I can get with my home based DAW is really, really.... well..... ummmmm..... errrr......[b]GOOD[/b]. :D But the fact that it sounds as good as it does for the amount I have invested is very impresive IMO :thu:
So Many Drummers. So Little Time...
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Indeed! And at some point you have to wonder about diminishing returns - how far are audio companies going to progress, when the actual return in terms of sound quality reaches the point of being more theoretical than actual? Generally, 2" 16-track is pretty much the pinnacle of analogue reproduction, yes? 16-bit, 44.1kHz audio was considered below that standard - but 24/96 was widely considered to be equal to & maybe better than the analogue standard. (Not neccesarily more listenable, just from the point of view of resolution quality.) So, at some point when everyone has 96 bit, 284 kHz audio systems & everything sounds pristine, it's gonna be harder to justify paying huge $$ to double the resolution of systems when you can't tell the difference without an oscilloscope. And then - some smart kid will release the first vinyl recording in 50 years and be hailed as a genius... ;)
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>> The argument gets spicy when you consider the PT user who spent god know how much and think they're getting HI FI >> :) But if someone has really good converters, PT can actually sound good, if someone doesn't have plug-initis and good mics, preamps, etc. I'm starting to get people who will comment, "Wow, how did you get such a great sound?", thinking that I recorded it on my Digi001, which I have on my G4. I tell them that I recorded it on an Akai MG1214 analog recorder 12-track with built-in mixer, which is really NOT the pinnacle of analog sound at all. They're usually quite surprised. They'll still go back to their computer, but with the knowledge that archaic and mediocre analog technology can whip their little hiney.
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Almost no one cares about fidelity, if the material has good performance, and or praiseworthy composisitonal elements. Sadly that is the bottom line in a vast majority of the consumer market.

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Why is it sad that consumers care more about the song or performance than fidelity? That's not sad at all to me. But it's also not quite true in my experience. People will hear the difference between an album that's well recorded and well mastered and one that's not. It's a matter of degree -- a few DB too hot or too compressed, they're less likely to notice, but if there's a big difference, it can be heard. Digital can sound great, analogue can sound terrible. The big point of Tape Op (which started the thread) wasn't to despair poor sound quality of recordings but to make the best recordings you can with the gear you have. In essence, we all have no other choice anyway (GAS or no GAS) -- so why not embrace it? Best, --JES
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Yes, we have "settled" for LoFi many times in the last decade. Having been frustrated by it, I went out & bought a 2" 16 track. It is absolutely a more open & punchy sounding medium than some of the best digital I've used or heard, for multi-track work. And the stupid thing is that it's not more expensive, to get this kind of sound quality, than a great sounding digital setup. Maybe 10 years ago, but not now. I purchased a damn-near unused 2" 16 track in perfect condition for under $5K (they can be found even cheaper). Couple that to a decent used analog console for under $5k, use your already existing hi-end preamps & compressors & you are there for 1/3 the price of a computer, PT & tons of time spent tweaking & updating & editing the life out of performances. Yeah the price of tape is expensive, but so what - the price of the whole DAW system is expensive & the upgrades, system tweaks, tech support phone calls, etc, are time consuming & money burning too. I know good recordings can be made on digital only systems, I've done some myself & hear many CD's daily that sound very good. And I also know that terribly ugly sounding recordings have been made over the years on analog. A lot of the reasons for this are because of poor choices being made at the production & mixing stages, not necesaarily because of the gear alone. Has anyone heard the newest U2 record? Holy shit does this thing sound 1 dimensional!! And to think that they had some great engineers on this record (using Pro Tools I believe). Though, I generally think that a decent compromise is the use of both analog & digital in the studio, it still sucks that we're not getting the best out of our recordings, analog or digital, while we're stuck syphoning it down to the 44.1 output crap. And 96k isn't necessarily the holy grail either. It's potentially better, but hasn't been fully fleshed out yet. Like many of you, I'm looking forward to better digital converters, but still loving the magic that happens when recording with reasonably priced analog gear.
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sonics are one thing, the song is another. the two together are euphoric. doesnt matter what you use, as long as it fits the song and sounds cool. besides sonics are as entirely subjective as the song itself. i prefer HIGH-fi :D with a lofi bent.

alphajerk

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[quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]sonics are one thing, the song is another. the two together are euphoric. doesnt matter what you use, as long as it fits the song and sounds cool. besides sonics are as entirely subjective as the song itself. i prefer HIGH-fi :D with a lofi bent.[/b][/quote]You know it!!!!!!!! :)
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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There is a perceptual difference between 16 and 24 track 2", also between 15 or 30 ips. There is even 8 track 2" capable machines. If you want bottom there is no better. Also, There is very good digital out there. For PCM it is 172KHz 24 bit. Then of course there is DSD (direct stream digital)which is what I thinks sounds the best. Consumers can purchase SACD discs to hear the format. As with everything its as good as the weakest chain in your setup. There are very good 44.1KHz 16 bit A/D D/A unfortunately they are very expernsive. The best one I came accross is the Pacific Microsonics HDCD. Of course it also does rates up to 192, but 44.1 sounds pretty good. The analog circuits in this unit are also exceptional and that also makes a big difference. This not your fathers Apogee.
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