The Real Reason Folks Leave California

[KenElevenShadows]

Los Angeles. Too much traffic and smog, but it's pretty hard to beat the sheer diversity. I can drive to the beach four miles away, or go up to the mountains after work in less than an hour and be walking among really tall trees, waterfalls and babbling brooks surrounded by ferns, then stop to eat at -- lessee now -- Mexican, Thai, Ethiopian, Persian, American, Salvadorean, Chinese, Moroccan, Argentinian -- what shall it be? Oh, and all this is within several miles of my home, much of it walking distance. And wow, I have friends with Cambodian, African, Japanese, Ethiopian, Mexican, And Armenian heritage. There's things that suck about the city, but it's pretty easy to whine and whine about the negative aspects while ignoring all the wonderful things. And California? For me, it's pretty damn difficult to dislike this state, and apparently for lots of others as well, since this state is pretty heavily populated. Big Sur, Santa Cruz, San Francisco, Mendocino, Joshua Tree, the Sequoias, Eureka, Fort Bragg, and many places I shouldn't mention in case people start going there in droves!

[deanmass]

All I know is that I would give alot to get the f*** out of MICHIGAN right now...Cali sounds WONDERFUL... I think people LEAVE California because they take it for granted. I have never been to a place with more to do in a close proximity, and that had genrally livable weather....Housing prices not withstanding, the best place I have visited...

[not coaster MODERATOR]

LA can be Heaven or Hell. It's heaven for me cuz I'm a mile or so from the beach, I don't commute to work, I own a house, and my street is pretty safe from crime (whatever that means) On the other hand, LA has miles and miles of hoods like any other supercity. It's a tough life if you don't blend in. And there are thousands of people who commute 50-100 miles each way daily in horrendous traffic into the city. They live out near where Phil is. There is a very high alcoholism and suicide rate with these commuters. And San Francisco is an even tougher place to live. The rents are very high, parking sucks, and people are more jaded than LA. (no knock on our NorCal forum brethren intended) Of course, I've been through Phili, Baltimore and other east cities too. You need survival skills no matter where you are. So......where are the departing Californians going? Cor 'd Lene, Taos, Flagstaff, ???

[soapbox]

Put me down as one who can find things to like and dislike about almost any place. However, here's one thing I [i]love[/i] about LA: [b]Talented musicians who are ALSO responsible, dedicated, AND easy to work with!!![/b] Sure these people exist in every city; but in LA, they are closer to being the norm rather than the exception. (Oh yeah, I also like the fact that we have a wealth of world class studios here!)

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by soapbox: [b]Put me down as one who can find things to like and dislike about almost any place. However, here's one thing I [i]love[/i] about LA: [b]Talented musicians who are ALSO responsible, dedicated, AND easy to work with!!![/b] Sure these people exist in every city; but in LA, they are closer to being the norm rather than the exception. [/b][/quote]You've gotta be kidding. In all the years I gigged in L.A. I very rarely found anybody to work with who wasn't a pain in the ass in some way. Either they had substance problems or they wanted to be rock stars. One of the reasons I left L.A. in fact, was that I did want to find musicians who had solid values and a good work ethic, because I sure didn't find many there. Session players are another story I guess - I did meet lots of those who had their shit together. My experiences came from trying to find people who would commit to an original rock band and didn't care whether we got famous. It was hell trying to run a band out there - no one can afford a place big enough to practice in, so you end up renting crappy rehearsal spaces by the hour (if you can afford that), which isn't very conducive to developing as a band. The day to day financial struggles, the hassles in driving to gigs or rehearsals in traffic, the fact that there's always fresh blood newly arrived from the midwest or wherever, who are willing to play the clubs for free (or pay to play) just to play on an L.A. stage (which meant the rest of us who just wanted a decent gig couldn't get paid either), the driving for hundreds of miles just to get to something that approximated a normal gig... well, it's just no way to live. Here in Atlanta I have everything that Ken described, except that the beach is a four-hour drive away, which is all right with me cuz I was never much of a beach person. I like mountains and rivers and lakes, of which we have plenty. And the diversity, the great restaurants, etc. - all that we got, without the attitude, the smog, the high cost of living, etc. --Lee

[soapbox]

Wow [b]Lee[/b], although I don't doubt you for a second, it amazes me that we've lived somewhat parallel lives while having such different experiences! :D I will say that I only spent a few years here playing the club scene before moving into the studio scene. I also agree that the club scene in LA generally sucked back then (late eighties, early nineties). In a way, I was one of the fortunate ones. Although I wound up mostly playing lounges (my experience is also that the hip clubs were usually "pay-to-play"), the band I worked in was fronted by one of the best agents in town. As a result, we were usually booked a year in advance; and everyone in the band was talented, responsible, and easy to work with. (In Phoenix, where I was based from during the previous decade, I found it impossible to form a band filled entirely with musicians who were both talented [i]and[/i] responsible!) Of course, we know that LA excels in film, television, and studio work; but I agree, it's not a good place to perform live. One other thing that makes it tough to keep a band together in LA is that members often leave to tour with this or that famous star; or they leave, like I did, in favor of studio work. As I posted earlier: Put me down as one who can find things to like and dislike about almost any place. I understand and I can see why you dislike LA. Hell, I dislike some of those same things. It's just that there's a lot I like as well! :) As for Atlanta, even though I was born there, I don't remember it well. The last time I visited there was when I was a teenager in the seventies. I remember three things though. The suburbs of Atlanta were lush and green, the club scene in an area called "The Underground" was thriving, and it was unbearably humid in the summertime. I'm glad you found a home you're happy with Lee; I'm sure that there's plenty to like about Atlanta! :thu: Best, Geoff

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by soapbox: [b]Wow [b]Lee[/b], although I don't doubt you for a second, it amazes me that we've lived somewhat parallel lives while having such different experiences! :D [/b][/quote]Yep. I think it REALLY depends on what your goals are, as to whether L.A. is the place for you. [quote][b]One other thing that makes it tough to keep a band together in LA is that members often leave to tour with this or that famous star; or they leave, like I did, in favor of studio work.[/b][/quote]Boy you said that right. That was another thing that was always terribly disappointing for me. I'd get a talented band together that had a good thing going, and somebody famous would always see us at a club and ask one of us to tour... so I'd lose a band member. Most of the time said ex band member would be back in town six months or a year later looking for work because said famous person would be through touring. Meanwhile I myself would turn down any such offers because... [i]I just wanted a band[/i]. A real band that stays together and grows creatively. And a lot of times these people who quit my bands (and others who were in the same boat) to tour with some rock star, would regret it later because they didn't know how good being in a real band was until they lost it. One important thing I learned in L.A. was that the majority of people who want to be famous, really just want to be loved, and they think being famous will make them feel that way, but it doesn't. A lot of the famous people I met were miserable bastards, and those who weren't, were already OK with themselves before they got famous. I had no desire to entrust my life or spend my time around miserable fucked up people no matter how much they were paying. I guess the moral of the story is, like the saying goes, consider carefully what you really wish for, because you might get it. --Lee

[soapbox]

[b]Lee[/b], I just spotted your new title. I love it! LOL! :D [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: I think it REALLY depends on what your goals are, as to whether L.A. is the place for you. (snip) ...the majority of people who want to be famous, really just want to be loved, and they think being famous will make them feel that way, but it doesn't.[/quote]You know, I've come to the same conclusions! Good points! BTW, is "The Underground" still happening in Altanta? Just curious... Best, Geoff

[Bucktunes]

[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]The day to day financial struggles, the hassles in driving to gigs or rehearsals in traffic, the fact that there's always fresh blood newly arrived from the midwest or wherever, who are willing to play the clubs for free (or pay to play) just to play on an L.A. stage (which meant the rest of us who just wanted a decent gig couldn't get paid either), the driving for hundreds of miles just to get to something that approximated a normal gig... well, it's just no way to live.[/b][/quote]Lee, you just listed the exact reasons why I left L.A. after only a few years. Now I live and work (play) in Las Vegas, just past 11 years now. I play contemporary jazz in a four-piece band of professional, good friends. I drive 15-20 minutes to work 6 nights a week, and park for [i]free[/i]. I can also make a decent enough wage to afford a house and a late model vehicle, and support a small family without having to work a day job. That's why I [i]don't[/i] miss L.A. Cool place to visit, but I'm glad I don't live there! Even if I want to visit, I can catch a flight and be there in 40 minutes. Peace all, Steve

[Bucktunes]

[quote]Originally posted by Submersible: [b][QUOTE]There is no State in the Union that takes in more people FROM California than it exports TO California.[/b][/quote]Uhmm...I beg to differ. Out of the 50,000+ people moving here every year, I think something like half of them are coming in from SoCal. I [i]know[/i] we're not sending that many back! ;) I have no problem with this, except that they bring their annoying driving habits with them. The most arrogant, inconsiderate stunts I've seen on the roadways here are pulled by vehicles sporting CA plates! :mad: Peace all, Steve

[Mark V]

Wow,all this negative stuff about California,at least you get all that sunshine,I kind of imagined it to be an optimistic place,you know,where dreams are made and all that bullshit.Anyone old enough to remember that song "California" by Manfred Mann?I,m pretty sure it was a world wide hit back in the seventies,actually the guy singing it is a Kiwi(no not the hairy green fleshed fruit)Anyway,just listening to that song would make you want to move there.

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by soapbox: [b]Lee, I just spotted your new title. I love it! LOL! :D [/b][/quote]Hahaha yeah couldn't resist! :D [quote] BTW, is "The Underground" still happening in Altanta? Just curious... [/QB][/quote]Well, not really. It still exists, but they redid it and now it's really just a mall, and kinda yuppified. I don't think any of the places that are kinda the "hip" spots in town now really existed in the 70's. Atlanta's really changed a lot even in the past 15-20 years, heck, even the past 10 that I've lived here. There are still lots of green suburbs though. And it's still very humid in summer. That's OK, I'll take that over the Santa Ana winds any day. :D --Lee

[music-man]

[quote]Originally posted by markvincent: [b]Wow,all this negative stuff about California,at least you get all that sunshine,I kind of imagined it to be an optimistic place,you know,where dreams are made and all that bullshit.Anyone old enough to remember that song "California" by Manfred Mann?I,m pretty sure it was a world wide hit back in the seventies,actually the guy singing it is a Kiwi(no not the hairy green fleshed fruit)Anyway,just listening to that song would make you want to move there.[/b][/quote]This is exactly my point. I moved to LA from Cincinnati, OH with a pretty similar preconception ... and was really disappointed. The winter weather sucked, the driving, the vapid brainlessness of people in the "business," the money-grubbing, the smog - none of it fit with my notion of a sunny, beautiful place where talented musicians, cosmopolitan progressives, and beautiful people in bikinis would welcome me with open arms. (It also didn't help that I was teaching 7th grade in South Central L.A. ...). Typical Grapes of Wrath story, right? I was really unhappy in LA until I stopped measuring the town against some idealized standard, and started appreciating the incredible diversity of people, the energy of the arts and culture, the vibrant underground scene, and ... God - the desert, which I still miss terribly (there is nothing on this planet quite like Joshua Tree at night ...). Once I put a decent stereo in my car, I didn't mind the driving too much either. Lee - I will totally agree that it was a tough to play live gigs. My bands really struggled. But I was perhaps luckier in that I met and got close to musicians who were really hard-working, talented, GOOD people. We hung together, in spite of the lack of $$s and fame (perhaps longer than we should have). Good company makes all the difference in adversity ...

[Sui]

Sushi alone makes up for the negative elements in Los Angeles :D