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Thoughts on Nawledge's question re:hip hop


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[quote]originally posted by Dan South Really? How many times have you heard the word "motherfucker" in a country song? How many times have you heard traditional R&B, funk, or blues performers sing about their intention to murder someone that they don't get along with? What percentage of rock music is openly misogynistic, referring to women as "ho's" (whores)? How many times have you heard the phrase "punk assed bitch" in a grunge or alternative rock song? How many musical genres celebrate acts of cold-blooded barbarism like a drive-by shooting? Furthermore, in all of the aforementioned genres - and others, including speed metal and thrash - how often have you heard overt racial slurs ("nigga", for example)? A couple of contributors to the earlier thread suggested that some listeners don't care for rap/hip hop due to racist motivations. From my vantage point, hip hop seems like the most overtly racist genre since the Third Reich stopped adding pro-Nazi lyrics to German folks songs. Maybe there's some truth to the racism argument, albeit from a different angle than was presented. I, for one, refuse to listen to ANY song that uses the "N-word" freely. I don't care if it's sung/spoken by blacks about blacks. Many people have made extreme sacrifices in an effort to put words like that behind us. Out of respect for them, and out of common decency, I won't support anyone who uses hateful labels in an attempt to be cool. That would be like today's Germans calling each other Nazis, or like modern blacks running around calling each other "slave." I find this extremely distasteful, and I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of the African-American community does, as well, especially those who are old enough to remember when the "N-word" was something far less pleasant than a trendy nickname. [/quote]Dan, have you ever heard any black (not African-American) metal? How about death metal? Grindcore? Thugcore? Gore-metal? There are overt, clear references to: 1.) Disembowelings 2.) Necrophilia 3.) Church Burnings 4.) Racism (yes, tons of use of the "N" word. Check out anything by Anal C*nt if you don't believe me.) 5.) Misogyny (the word "ho" isn't often used in death metal, but there's plenty of bitch and c*nt, etc.) 6.) Murder/Mass murder/serial killings/mutilations For God's sake, gore-metal is ONLY about murder and mutilation. That is it's SOLE purpose and lyrical theme. Thug-core is ONLY about beating people up (generally with baseball bats!) I'm not making this stuff up. I never pulled the race card in this discussion. However, as a music critic, I have been exposed to many, MANY "offensive" forms of music. Believe me, some of the stuff you'd hear on a Cannibal Corpse CD is far more graphic than anything NWA, Wu Tang Clan or 2Livecrew EVER wrote. Here's a little ditty from C.C.: Buried In The BackYard To kill is why I live My God gives eternal life Slice you, I watch your blood flow Rotten brains, I feed 'till I'm full Pressure building, the body starts to swell The souls of my victims brings me great power Feasting on the flesh by the hour Lungs explode as I cave in your chest Probing through your organs-searching for meat Chewing the heart of my kill builds my evil will Bodies emptied of blood to fill my sacrificial chalice I stalk my prey at night, I need to kill tonight To strengthen my evil soul, those that I kill worship me below I am your worst reality, pain and torture of humanity Violent ways of insanity, there is no end to this cruelty In my grasp, I'll kill you fast, I'll send your soul to hell Butchery of Human beings is the only life I know My armies of zombies will inherit the earth, and answer to my spells Mutilated the human race in search for immortals I drag the carcass home, it feels stiff and cold Incantation of the devil to rob it of its soul Consume the lifeless cadaver, I drink your blackened blood Its death flows through my body, indulge in its pain Crucifixion in the cemetary, awakes the dead from their sleep Rising from their graves, to devour the weakened mortals Under my control, I own their tortured souls Gross and bloody enough for ya? How about this one from Anal C*nt? KILL WOMEN KILL WOMEN - DIE KILL WOMEN - DIE KILL WOMEN - DIE BITCH REPEAT Cute, huh? Here's another from Anal C*nt: I HOPE YOU GET DEPOERTED first you fucked a nigger you ugly fucking whore ran out of men in canada and came here for more you could shower all your life and you'd never get clean because you fucked someone that wore afro-sheen chorus: i hope you get deported,you make me sick,i hope you get deported,you sucked a nigger's dick you've got no life and you talk to your pets i hate you so much i wan't to call the i.n.s. you work at a snack bar and your father pays your rent over the border's where i hope you get sent chorus OK? What I said after the quote you pulled was "It'd be accurate to say that hip-hop is more POPULAR and widely known than the other genres with high amounts of profanity. Some death metal lyrics, for example, are far more profane (and disturbing) than anything in hip-hop." I think the above examples prove my point. These are both bands who have multiple CDs available on labels that advertise and tour regularly. Granted, some hip-hop reaches a wider audience than C.C. and A.C., but the messages are definitely just as gross, nasty or graphic.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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Thanks guys for all the warm and supportive comments on fatherhood. My point was not to exalt myself at all, but I appreciate the surprise. Yet, my point was just to say that yes, music can influence our children, but you don't blame the music as the remedy to the problem. You become a better parent. Thanks again, guys. Now, back to topic. [quote]Originally posted by Nawledge [b]The world should let black culture speak for itself as a whole, and be represented that way, instead society takes the output of the worst part of black culture as defacto representation. [/b] [/quote]Nawledge, my brother, I get your point. I've read all your post on these topics and I respect you immensely. In addition, Ag uy I really respect respects you as well and really wants to hear your music which makes me respect you even more( an inside joke that maybe only Dan South would understand). So please just listen to this perspective and don't take what I'm about to say as a personal attack. O.K. all disclaimers aside, I have to disagree with your last statement. I agree that society(mainly media and people of power and influence) foster and support negative images of blacks. However, society should not let black culture speak for itself. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to let you do anything. Nobody is going to give you power. And nobody is going to give you a fair shake in this world, except for mommy and daddy, maybe. And yes, this is unfair, but this is the way it is. NOBODY( AND THAT INCLUDES SOCIETY) IS GOING TO GIVE YOU ANYTHING. It is not society's job to LET black culture speak for itself. It is black culture's responsibility to let black culture speak for itself. If you feel society is wrong for accepting these images of you as the gospel truth and if how they feel about you is important to you, it is our job to be better communicators for our culture. You're right, Gangsta rap was not a step backward for blacks, our inertia was the step back for black people. The fact that we have allowed this bullshit to go on for so long is the step back that we have made. The fact that we have almost silently supported these life depreciating bastard images for so long is the digression of the culture. One might ask how have we supported them? My answer- by not doing anything about it. If one argues, but we have challenged gangsta rap, journalists have, the NAACP have, talks shows have. My rebuttle-we haven't done enough about it. How can I say this. Because it is still here. Its predominance is still felt. Our children(and I would argue most American children including whites) are trying to emulate thugs. Our kids still emulate drug pushers, pimps, and killers. These are their heroes, and we as men have not provided them with any or enough alternatives. I taught three years in public shcools in D.C. so I'm not talking from theory, but experience. The responsibility is ours and ours alone. Theoretically, what I'm saying might not be true. I mean one could argue that all of society would want all of its members to have positive images of society for the society to be successful. Yeah, that's theory. In actuality, making the responsibility ours and ours alone is the most effective perspective to have in solving our problem. Great quote from great indie movie Boondock Saints, "Far worst than the treachery of evil men is the indifference of good men." In short, the problem is not out there in society not letting us do this or that or society is doing this or that to us even though these are in many instance observable and true. Regardless of that, the problem and the solutions reside in us. Just a different perspective Namaste Jedi

"All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence."

 

The Buddha's Last Words

 

R.I.P. RobT

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I don't know if Hip-hop should be put on trial, and if so which parts of it. I do know this.... thinking that gangster rap represents Afro-American culture is as dumb as thinking that neo-nazi's represent German culture or Bin Laden represents Arab culture. So what do I think of Afro-American music? As I look back on 20th century music, I (personally) only see two major advancements: Rock and Roll and Jazz. I see both of these as indications of the huge contributions that Afro-American culture has made to the broader world culture. Thank you for sharing these gifts. I suspect this is just the beginning of a creative period for this community, and we will see even more astonishing new music from them in the century we are entering. Jerry
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[quote]Originally posted by dblackjedi@hotmail.com: [b]Great quote from great indie movie Boondock Saints, "Far worst than the treachery of evil men is the indifference of good men." In short, the problem is not out there in society not letting us do this or that or society is doing this or that to us even though these are in many instance observable and true. Regardless of that, the problem and the solutions reside in us.[/b][/quote]Jedi, Well done!! You are so full of wisdom that I might have to start calling you Yoda. :) P.S. I got the reference.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Erik (CMDN), Point taken. But death metal groups seem to get less exposure than the raunchy hip hop acts (for reasons that are open to speculation). I have never heard of the group that you mentioned, nor have I ever heard any music like this on the radio, on MTV, in a film, etc. (I'm exposed to a good bit of current stuff.) I HAVE, on the other hand, heard lots of trashy hip hop in all of these media. Furthermore, I don't ever run into metalheads walking down the street chanting disembowlment lyrics, but trash-rapping hip hop wanna-be's are a daily fixture in my world. I'm not trying to discount your argument, which is sound, but I wanted to point out that the level of exposure between the hip hop and death metal camps is significantly different (based upon only my own observations).

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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[quote] Point taken. But death metal groups seem to get less exposure than the raunchy hip hop acts (for reasons that are open to speculation). I have never heard of the group that you mentioned, nor have I ever heard any music like this on the radio, on MTV, in a film, etc. (I'm exposed to a good bit of current stuff.) I HAVE, on the other hand, heard lots of trashy hip hop in all of these media. Furthermore, I don't ever run into metalheads walking down the street chanting disembowlment lyrics, but trash-rapping hip hop wanna-be's are a daily fixture in my world. I'm not trying to discount your argument, which is sound, but I wanted to point out that the level of exposure between the hip hop and death metal camps is significantly different (based upon only my own observations). [/quote]Hey Dan, True. Even the biggest death/grind/gore/thug/black/etc metal act is far less widely known than than even the most obscure rapper on a big label. You definitely won't be hearing Cannibal Corpse or Deicide during daylight hours on big commercial radio stations or on MTV. Anyway, I'm glad you see my point -- hip-hop is no more profane than some genres of metal. I didn't mean to come off in an argumentative way, but this is actually something I know a lot about (for once!) For example, Cradle Of Filth (a British black/goth-metal act) sells something like 100,000 units in Europe alone. You'll find a lot of suburban white kids wearing their shirts. You'd be suprised how well some of this stuff sells. It's just a niche market; the acts just aren't in the mainstream like hip-hop. By the way (to add some fuel to the fire,)some members of the bigger Norwegian death/black metal acts have actually been put in prison for murdering members of other bands. Some have been locked up for burning churches and rape. Sounds a little like some hip-hop acts we know, huh? BTW, I don't think you'd notice if a kid was walking around chanting C.C. or A.C. lyrics, because if they were doing that, it'd sound like they were being possessed by a 2,000-year-old demon or something. haha. I completely understand your point, though. This whole topic is completely subjective -- it's all based on a individual experiences and perspective. I have definitely encountered a lot of wanna-be metalheads who think of themselves as Satanists, vampires, vehement anti-Christians, etc. These folks model their mode of dress after their fave bands (lots of shiny metal jewelry and black clothes) and spend their weekends in "corpse-paint" (white make-up with black around the eyes). They blast death metal constantly and joke about killing people. I have also come across a significant number of young metalheads who love this kind of music and are the sweetest kids in the world. Again, it's subjective. To put it another, more flowery way, we're all prisoners of our time and place in the world.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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Jedi what's up man, first of all thank you for your kind words. I haven't actually taken the time to mention this so i'd like to let everyone know that i'm aware of the fact that alot of what we are discussing are matters of the heart. meaning that someones heart might be provoked, but ultimately has to change on its own. In my everyday life i make a clear distinction between a personal viewpoint, and a mass of personal viewpoints that have been institutionalized and wielded by the government, media, and the judiciary system in the direction of a paticular group or ideology. So if people don't like me, or the music I make, or how i look i don't get too concerned, their spirit is their own responsibility, but when their likes and dis-likes have bearing on if i can get a job, place to live or accurate representation in all forms of media i take issue. Dan said something i agree with totally in his last post. he does'nt hear the worst music in those other Genres on the radio. I don't either. So why is that Bullsh_t rap all over the radio I have a problem with that, it's an in-accurate depiction and alot of people aren't wise enough to listen past the radio, or for that matter look past the images on their television. I don't agree with the culture taking a step backwards do to gangsta rap or our own inertia. I don't believe a culture can go backwards, culture is constantly devoloping, and if it could go backwards it would take alot more than all the gansta rappers out there to make it happen. You imply that black people are at fault for letting gangsta music and the like go on, but I would have to ask the question who are we? You, Me, black people? we don't have the power let alone the right to be responsible for anyone but ourselves, individually. and as far as i know neither you nor i makes that kind of music, or promotes those types of ideals or lack there of . I think if we try to take on responsiblity thats not rightfully ours in the first place we begin to fall into the same trap as people dismissing the whole Genre of hiphop. you don't see white people trying to take responsibility for bad music that other white people make, and why should they it's not there's, but in addition to that society at large does'nt try to make them responsible either, but society's double standard shows when it comes to hiphop. when you talk to people about issues that are facing predominately black people or about the myth of black music (music belongs to everyone equally) haven't you ever gotten the feeling that they were taking what you were saying as speaking for all black people?, I've had that experience often and i think its rediculous. its like Tupac got thugLife tatooted on his stomache and now he's supposed to represent all hiphop/rapmusic when the reality is that his type of hiphop is the minority of the Genre. I believe in unity among all people, I don't believe in unity for black people first, and once we get ourselves together we'll go next door to our neighbor and have unity. i think that rhetoric is crap, we are all already apart of one another, that is fact, so exclusion first then unity is just another lie. and Jedi you said something earlier about how you don't look like the image of a rocker but of how your image is like some of the people in our topic of discussion, and so it concerns you very much regarding the images your son sees. I totally agree with your concern but I think the problem is that institutionaly images that look like you have not been portrayed truthfully in their entirety. you're proof of that yourself and rapmusic suffers from the same fallacies. On tv when white kids are dressed like rappers, journalist are quick to point out that they're just white kids dressed like their favorite rappers, but when its black kids they're just thuggs. I'm not a thug, you're not a thug, but i wear more baggy clothing than tight and i make hiphop music, and hardcore hiphop at that. and you play rock music. anyways i know you are probably tired of hearing this but your kids in very good hands, you would'nt happen to have a cute sister would ya :D
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Great response, Nawledge. This is what I'm talking about. No name calling, and pissing contest. Just a healthy intellectual debate. O.K. Down to business. [quote]Originally posted by Nawledge. I don't agree with the culture taking a step backwards do to gangsta rap or our own inertia. I don't believe a culture can go backwards, culture is constantly devoloping, and if it could go backwards it would take alot more than all the gansta rappers out there to make it happen.[QUOTE] Now here is where I agree totally. I made the comment that black culture took a step backwards because of its own inertia for literary effect. In theory and in alignment with my esoteric beliefs, nothing can go backwards. Life is always moving, vibrating, changing. Things may appear like a setback, but that is an illusion that will spawn an even greater forward movement. However, as I stated I used that expression for a literary effect to incite my reader(you). Moreover, I thought it flowed real well with my post(Don't you agree LOL). Anyway, the temporal "reality" esoteric beliefs, IMO, are not very effective in solving a problem or accomplishing a goal without well-defined perspectives and actions. Therefore, the step backwards comment points to the fact that the images in "popular" rap music are life depreciating. In short, they do not support life. Examples, the mistreatment of women(the bringers of life), images of smoking, drinking, excess are in total opposition to good health, and killing(I know I don't need to explain how this action does not support life). Now one could argue that this music does not represent black culture, and I would agree, and one could argue that this music should not be taken seriously and I agree, and one could argue that parents should take more of a role influencing their kids, and you know I agree, but the observable fact is that this "popular" rap music influences people. Our kids, (black, white, yellow, and red) are influenced by the Thug. Look around, their presence is felt. Kids are not walking around emulating Malcom X, kids are emulating what they see on Mtv. And when this life depreciating behavior is emulated it looks, dare I say it, backwards, because it goes against life. [Quote]You imply that black people are at fault for letting gangsta music and the like go on, but I would have to ask the question who are we? You, Me, black people? we don't have the power let alone the right to be responsible for anyone but ourselves, individually. [/quote]This is where I disagree. You do have the power. We can make a difference. And it is our responsibility. This is my personal opinion and you tell me what you think. Joseph Campbell stated, "It is the artist's function to create the myth." Now I'm talking about artists, not entertainers just to be clear. Now, IMO, the artist is open to something beyond thought, the artist is open to this other realm if you will, where revelation and spiritual insight of the human condition come from. This realm is not out there, but inside everyone of us. It is just the artist who is more open to the muses, if you will, of inspiration. And this is where his/her true talent and gifts come from. This is why we use the mediums we use like music, poetry, paintings, and films to connote something beyond thought. Truly inspiring works of art leaves the ordinary human experience behind. It is our responsibility to draw from that place(call it God, higher self, Brahman, unmanifested, whatever) and influence the world. O.K. now from a more practical point of view. It is the "we don't have the power" idea that my entire previous post was addressing. I believe that idea gets us nowhere. I agree about not buying into "the blacks get it together first and then we'll unite with others" so when I say "us" I mean our society as a whole. I just believe when you take the "we don't have the power" outlook you stifle growth. I believe we do have the power, and it is our responsibility because we are the artist that can give signposts to the divine. Our presence is not felt, and we need to make it so. We need to find more effective ways to communicate positive life supporting art. They are not going to change, we must make the change. This is why I said "our inertia was the step backwards." My intention was to fire up real artists like yourself and myself included to get up off our asses and make a significant contribution to the musical climate. Finally, I believe it is our responsibility as adults to influence our children in more life supporting behaviors, and guide them away from destructive behaviors, because, after all, they are the true carriers of the torch of life. BTW, I do have a cute sister, but she's blissfully married. Take care my friend Jedi

"All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence."

 

The Buddha's Last Words

 

R.I.P. RobT

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Is the lyrical content of rap music bad for african-americans? It's complicated. What sells to white america is going to be a limited reflection of black culture. As I said in the other thread, it's a form of exploitation. But on the other hand, there was a time when white audiences would only listen to black music if it was performed by white people. I think it's actually a good thing that the negative aspects of african american experience are in some way getting heard by the culture at large. There's no more slavery in america, and yet we think it's a good idea to remember it. Today there is economic oppression, de facto segregation, unequal protection under the law and hostility. The only air time white america gives to this situation is when black people seem to be enjoying themselves, glorifying thug life. Yes, that's inaccurate, but if you can't stand to listen to 'gangsta' lyrics, are you sure it's because they're an inaccurate representation of black culture? Or could it be that you just don't want to hear about the situation? I think both responses are possible and I think a lot of people on this board have the former. But that needs to be worked out, it can't be assumed. I hope this makes some sense. --ZA
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This is a great topic that pains me deeply. I too, am a father of four. As a Black male growing up in this society, there is a certain level of anger and frustration that we all feel when faced with the history of our people in this country. I don't want to debate the treatment of Black people in this country, but that cannot be discounted. I remember when rap was gaining popularity in the streets of New York in the 70's(I'm 40). Rap was a new art form, that wasn't really new (look at the Last Poets, Gil Scott Heron, and so forth). Rap was an artistic form. The best rapper was the one that could flow the best. It was not about the lyrical content or context of the rap. But as rap grew up, as everything does, it became away for young Blacks, who do not have a voice in this country to express their veiws and feelings about their condition. We have to understand that they are reflecting a condition that they are experiencing everyday. Be it, economically, emotionally, spiritually, or morally. These are our children, who are upset about the condition of their lives and their communities. Sometimes (alot really) they don't use the best of language to express these frustrations. And in so doing, they are doing more hurt than good. But we have to understand, that alot of these young children are hurting. As rap grew up and matured in the 80's, and 90's, rap will eventually evolve into something greater. We should not confuse the art form with some of the messages being put out. I was at the last Hip Hop Summit, and there are those who are trying to direct some of these artists. Yes, the negative language and disrespect for our woman do have a negative impact on our children. Anybody who says that these videos with almost naked women, and/or these songs that refer to our women as female dogs, or the constant use of the N word or the F word does not have an affect on young people need to go into some of these communities. Those of us in the industry, need to help guide these young artists and not just criticize. We need to show them the power of the spoken and written word. We need to show them that they can make a difference by changing the content of their songs and not the art form. One good rap record can reach and educate millions of people to the plight of the poor and mistreated. It can also be a valuable tool in educating our younger ones. My three year old knows the words to some of these songs. Just think what it would be like, if a lot more of these songs were actually teaching her something of value that she could repeat. However, we must realize that there are forces in the industry that perpetuate the filth, stereotypes and bad language. Some artists that have things to say cannot get radio play, or video play. They are not what the major labels want to push. It's hard to tell a rapper to put out positive material, when he knows the labels won't back it. Trust me, I been down this road too many times. Have you ever stopped to think, why the labels allow this kind of language on the songs, when the song you fall in love with on the radio does not have that kind of language. Why make an explicit version, when the song that gets people to buy the record is non-explicit. To sum up, we must separate the art form of rap from some of the contents that we here. Rap, as we know it is only 30 years old. We should give it time to evolve, and not be so judgemental. Rap which was popular in NYC at one time, is now popular all over the world. It has given many kids an opportunity to see the world and speak and interact with many people outside their community and race. I believe that there is alot of improvement needed in rap. However, "The biggest room in the house, is the room for self-improvement" Peace.
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[quote]Originally posted by CP: [b] Rap was a new art form, that wasn't really new (look at the Last Poets, Gil Scott Heron, and so forth). [/b][/quote]HEY Brother have you heard? About Johannesburg. Man that album changed my life! Angel Dust is another fave. I had totally forgotten about that....gonna dig it up when I get home.
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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Jedi, i don't think art is as definable as you make it out to be and i don't think artist are the caretakers of enlightenment. I feel like artist are more or less mirrors reflecting our society. when i said that we did'nt have the power i was'nt referring to the power to make a difference, i agree with you completly about that, but i believe we all have the power to make a difference. some people we call artist use their talents for division and have to be watched carefully in a way some artist are the greatest of con-men because there is an allure to the methods they use. sometimes i feel like i'm an artist and sometimes i don't, i'm probably right on both accounts to some degree (i'd like to think) but more than anything else i feel like we all interpet information just a little bit differently and the artist are the ones that just express it externaly. i'm more of a factual person, i believe philosophy has its place in the larger scheme of things, but that objectivity and action are the final agents of change. if someone has a dark heart, there is nothing i can do for them, besides share the love in my heart with them, which in itself is directing something powerful at them, but you can't force someone to change, or become more open minded about music or anything else. so there is another side to this called the business of life, and in this arena is where the most functional change can take place. People need to be protected from each other because the human being though wonderful is less perfect than the cockroach. we live in a civilized (lol) society with laws regulations and guidelines. we need to make it so that those guidelines are applied evenly to everybody if there was no duragatory rapmusic, if all music coming from young black males was clean and pristine to the key of glory glory hallejua, rapmusic still would not be portrayed right, because the problem does'nt come from rapmusic, it comes from our society Za what you said makes alot of sense imho. peace
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[quote] Originally posted by Nawledge [b]because the problem does'nt come from rapmusic, it comes from our society[/b] [/quote]This is the fundamental difference in our perspectives. I do not believe the problem is out there. Problems are never out there, they're in here. This is on a microcosmic level, as well as, a macrocosmic level. For example, your personal problems are your responsibility to fix. A group of people's problems are that group's responsibility to fix. Black American children(particularly males) identify with rappers more than any other child on the planet because they look like them. These young males think that these behaviors they see on Mtv are acceptable. This is a problem. By blaming the society, you cannot fix the problem because you take yourself out of the accountablity equation. To blame society is basically a way to avoid accountability. The injustices that you point out are real. However, the influence of "popular" rap music is real as well, and despite the injustices, we must create an alternative for our youth. You stated before that whites don't feel responsible for the negative music that members of their race make. Yet, their children are not subjected to those genres in no way like young black boys are subjected to negative rap. Therefore, white children are not in as great of threat from negative rock music, like black children are to POPULAR rap music. One could argue that society shouldn't let this go on. The music industry should not allow this small segment of rap to dominate, it's a misrepresentation and the like. But the fact is that this is going on, and these life depreciating images are/wil continue to affect the quality of life for our youth. Society is not going to change, until [b]WE[/b] (older black males) give them a reason to change. We are their leaders/elders and should guide our children to more positive behaviors. Also, I agree Art can be a lot of things, but for me when Art is at its peak of experience it points to the divine, and therefore, I would say that the artist at her highest level can be defined as one who points us to the undefinable. I also believe that we need it all, the good, the bad, the ugly, and the truth(or as close as we can get to it). All art is needed, IMO, my point was to say that true artists are in short supply, and if one is open to that part of oneself than it is their responsibility to make a significant contribution to the music climate, because things are way out of balance. That's it for now, I'll "HOllA BACK" LoL. Namaste Jedi

"All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence."

 

The Buddha's Last Words

 

R.I.P. RobT

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