Radio: What has it done to the album?

[MusicMan]

I might have a little trouble articulating this thought, so bear with me: Like most people, I grew up listening to radio, which for the most part, was playing selective "hit" tracks off of a particular album. Over the years, these songs, which number in the thousands, have become so ingrained in my mind, they are like old friends. From many different genres, spanning many decades, I have built a catalogue in my head that reflects only one song by an artist, sometimes two or three or four, sometimes more depending on the artist. I have never heard the entire album that a particular song came from in most cases. Is this the case with most people? Now that these songs are part of the "soundtrack" to my life, do you think I would be disappointed by the rest of the material from these albums, since a lot of time, the "weaker" songs never make the radio, and because they lack the power of emotional connotations? To take it a tad further: Is it possible that in my mind, and others I am sure, we have elevated a particular artist in our minds based on this handful of material without having ever really listened to the rest? I am not sure what point any of this has, but as an example, I was listening to a Stevie Wonder song on the radio, who's name eludes me now, and I was thinking, I would love to buy that album, I wonder if the rest of the songs are this good? I find myself doing that all the time. -john

[JLsound]

Call it laziness on my part, but when vinyl was all that was available I would listen to the whole thing. It was to much of a hastle to get up and change albums. However, I am glad I did listen to whole albums, because I always thought that the better tunes from an album were never played on the radio. Here are some examples. Skynyrd's "needle and a spoon" off of "Pronounced ..." Great tune, I have never heard it on the radio. Stones' "Sister Morphine" off of "Sticky Fingers" I have never heard it on the radio Ronnie James Dio's "Straight through the Heart" off of "Holy Diver", When Radio used to play Dio, it was "Rainbow in the dark" off that album which got airplay. Just a few. Anybody else agree that some of the better songs are not played on the radio?

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by JLsound: [b]Stones' "Sister Morphine" off of "Sticky Fingers" I have never heard it on the radio[/b][/quote]Wow....one of the best songs ever, on what I consider to be the Stones best album. I have no clue how "Exile...." is considered their best. I like it....but?

[JLsound]

Okay I am a bone head. "needle and a spoon" was actually off of "2nd Helping", And I agree, "Sticky Fingers" is my favorite Stones album.

[Tedster]

Your "hit" songs that radio plays incessantly are like "old friends" to you, and that's fine...really it is. Those same songs (to me) are more like annoying relatives who keep showing up at your door mooching off you, when you've got thousands of other relatives you've never met, but heard are really cool. I utterly loathe the whole mindset of "hits". Well, it would actually be okay if you had a few "hit" radio stations and the rest played more interesting music. But, they're all "hit" stations these days, which means if you tune into a "classic rock" station you'll hear: Skynrd..."Gimme Three Sweet Home Freebirds" Boston..."More than a feeling" Foreigner..."Cold As Ice" Zeppelin..."Stairway" ...and maybe about 10 others [i]repeated ad nauseam[/i]. Radio Sucks. It could be good, but it sucks. And, further...people have gotten so they don't want to even listen to a whole CD. Play the hit. Oh, you say those songs number in the thousands? Nope. Not even hundreds. Most stations maintain a playlist of probably less than 50 songs. Perhaps there have been "thousands" of hits over the years...but unless a song reaches the top 5, it hardly ever makes it on to a classic or oldies station. And new "hits" are canned as soon as they start their downward slide. This post was brought to you by CLEARASIL...Wipe out those pesky zits today!!!

[Botch.]

It depends on the artist. I think a rough generalization would be, the more albums an act has put out the more likely there's good material on them that's not played on the radio. A "one-hit-wonder"s only album may be more likely to have filler on it. Of course there are exceptions (Mr. Mister comes to mind). I grew up not listening to the radio but listening to 8-tracks, cassettes, and someday CDs in my car of albums I've bought and recorded, so that's what my "life memories" consist of. What I do anymore is read reviews of albums I may be interested in purchasing on Amazon.com, plus they usually have several songs from the album that you can download a 20-second snippet and get an idea of what they sound like. My percentage of bad purchases has gone way done since this service was offered, thank you Amazon!

[MusicMan]

No offense Tedster, but I haven't heard those four (+3)s ongs on the radio in easily a couple of years, and I listen to oldies stations, classic rock, adult contemporary, alternative, classical, and college radio... I'll give you some examples of what I mean. I have never owned or listened to albums by: Bill Haley and the Comets The Shirelles Elvis Pressley The Coasters Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs Bobby Vinton Dion Frankie Avalon Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons Frank Sinatra Brenda Lee Chuck Berry Little Richard Fats Domino Gary Lewis and the Playboys Fabian Peter Paul and Mary The Mamas and the Papas The Turtles The Troggs The Animals Lovin' Spoonful Gary Pucket and the Union Gap Hermans Hermits The Hollies Spencer Davis Group Sugarloaf Blues Image Rare Earth Iron Butterfly Bob Dylan The Rolling Stones The Grass Roots The Bee Gees Eric Clapton Queen The Who Led Zeppelin Bruce Springsteen Elton John The Eagles Meatloaf Boston Wild Cherry The Commodores Parliament The Carpenters Bachman Turner Overdrive Heart Carole King Carly Simon Simon and Garfunkel Paul Simon George Harrison John Lennon Ringo Starr Bad Company Duran Duran Pat Benetar Cyndi Lauper Thomas Dolby Foreigner Prince Def Leppard Journey XTC Depeche Mode Van Halen The Police AC/DC Chicago Peter Setara (sp?) Olivia Newton John The Smiths The Sex Pistols The Bangles Bananarama The Cure Flock of Seagulls Crowded House Cutting Crew Genesis Kiss Queensryche They Might Be Giants DEVO INXS The Pretenders Dexy's Midnight Runners Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers 10000 Maniacs Madonna Kraftwerk Kate Bush Wang Chung Thompson Twins Peter Gabrial Wierd Al Night Ranger Debbie Gibson SOD DRI GWAR The Dead Kennedys FEAR Agnostic Front Sepultura Death Angel Metal Chruch Foo Fighters Mudhoney Seal Oasis KD Lang Allanis Morrisette Snoop Dogg Smashing Pumpkins Sara Mclaughlin Better Than Ezra Sheryl Crow Bjork Silver Chair Garbage Pavement The Offspring Blink 182 Fuel etc.... I am sure that the list of those I can't remember immediately is just as long. I have heard all these on the radio over the years, and regularly (savesome of the hardcore and metal which weren't hits, but I think you get my point) but have never bought the albums. The radio plays tons of music, not just five acts on the classic rock, or oldies, or alternative, or 70's, etc... I would have NEVER heard of almost all of the artists had it not been for radio. -john

[Tedster]

Quote... Bill Haley and the Comets The Shirelles Elvis Pressley The Coasters Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs Bobby Vinton Dion Frankie Avalon Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons Frank Sinatra Brenda Lee Chuck Berry Little Richard Fats Domino Gary Lewis and the Playboys Fabian Peter Paul and Mary The Mamas and the Papas The Turtles The Troggs The Animals Lovin' Spoonful Gary Pucket and the Union Gap Hermans Hermits The Hollies Spencer Davis Group Sugarloaf Blues Image Rare Earth Iron Butterfly Bob Dylan The Rolling Stones The Grass Roots The Bee Gees These 30 or so artists may well represent a sizable chunk of "Oldies 95's" playlist. I do know what you mean. The radio can turn you on to new artists... but, I stand by my remark about the sucky state of most radio...particularly "classic" rock. It used to be called "AOR"...[i]Album[/i]-oriented rock. Now they refer to it as [i]ADULT[/i]-oriented rock...because they don't play album cuts anymore. The "Elton John"/"Michael Bolton" stations are particularly horrid, and what's worse, they have the audacity to use the slogan "A better variety"...!!! If you listen to public radio, or college radio, you're ahead of the game, because at least at this time the corporate money grubbers haven't found a legal way to weasel in to that market.

[MusicMan]

I see where you are coming from Tedster, there is an abundance of radio stations that cater to the least common demoninator, etc... ... I wasn't really talking about the state of radio as it stands in a lot of markets today. I am talking about how radio has influenced my tastes musically, IMO, very well cause I have been listening to so much different music spanning different decades, and how that effects my impression of the artists in general, without having really heard anything other than these "hits". I am pretty sure most of the artists, save some of the metal and hardcore, and some others could be found on radio stations in regular rotation all over the country. I hear it all the time on Chicago radio, to include radio in the SouthBend, IN area as well. That wasn't really my point though. Tedster, Do you own lots of albums by many of the artists I mentioned? Have you heard the majority of them? Where did you hear them? -john

[KHAN]

Ted nailed it for me. But he did narrow the list a bit too much. We travel a lot on our gigs. We're going from Western NY to Minneapolis this weekend. We will listen to many "AOR" classic rock stations on the way. They will inevitably play a combination of: 5 songs by Zeppelin 5 songs by the Stones 2 or 3 by Boston, Foreigner, Bad Co., Billy Squire, ZZ Top, etc. etc. etc. You get the idea. There have been many popular bands over the years, and most of them still get airplay. Unfortunately, just in a very narrow scope. This formula must sell the most ads, because if it didn't, they would do it differently.

[Tedster]

MusicMan...(BTW...a friend still has one of your basses, he really likes it :D :D :D ) I own quite a few albums...not so much by the some of oldies artists you've listed (like Fabian or Gary Puckett), but I did have an occasional LP by some of those acts in years past...and, I'll be the first to admit that I wouldn't have heard many of them if not for radio. But, radio has changed over the last 30 years. In the old days...when it was AM, you'd hear Perry Como, followed by The Vogues, followed by The Supremes...followed by Johnny Cash, followed by The Yardbirds...all on the same station!!! So you were exposed to a multiplicity of genres. Then, when the FM wave first hit, you'd be exposed to not only a lot of what we call today "classic rock", but more underground stuff as well. Anyone remember WABX in Detroit? Album cuts ruled the day! Then, someone figured they could turn FM into AM, and make a lot of money. It hasn't been the same since. BTW Khan, I narrowed the list a bit much for brevity, but if you add an additional cut by each artist, you'll be ballpark... :D :D Oh yeah, Khan, since you travel so much, when you all coming down to Kansas City???

[Uh Clem]

uhh forgive me, but can someone refresh my memory...what is radio? it has knobs right? what else? that thing with the dial and "mensa" numerical sequence test on it? i think we may have one somewhere in the house...

[Tom Capasso]

Tedster, Here in NY, there was a point in time (late 70's) when AOR meant album oriented rock, and that's how I came to like many of the non-hits on albums. When the demographics slipped (due to the breaking out of styles then), AOR was termed "another old record" and the classic stations went for the "safe" stuff. I would love to hear more from these artists, but I'm starting to appreciate what I have, because the last classic rock station in this market just put a "comedy team" on their morning shift. As to examples, there are a few songs on Boston's first album that I rate ahead of "More than a feeling". MusicMan, I can't give you a good answer. In general, famous consistent artists make albums that are at least good. I've been amazed by some of the albums I bought for one song. The Midnight Oil album that has "Beds Are Burning" is a great album all thru (for me). Sadly, it goes the other way as well. Personally, I was disappointed by "Oranges And Lemons" by XTC, which I bought for "Mayor Of Simpleton" (can you tell I'm a bassist? :D ). Sometimes a hit from a group had "special attention" that the rest of the cuts didn't. Different production, side-players, etc., and sounds nothing like the rest of the album. Norman Greenbaum's "Spirit In The Sky" has a different sound from the rest of the record, so I paid album price for one (admittedly good) song. Lastly, there is taste. You mentioned Iron Butterfly. I liked what was on their famous album (and I liked some of what was on the album that followed), but I suspect most people didn't. One thing I noticed is how similar cuts sound on modern albums (get the cane, Grampa :rolleyes: ). The obvious example is to listen to the Beatles, then try a current group that you like (Staind, Matchbox 20?). For me, there isn't enough variation.... With the online and in-store sampling available, that may help with choices. I still buy Elvis Costello (although I don't have the Bacharach stuff), and it's not a sure thing, but I always find a few cuts I like. Tom

[timrocker]

Okay, great question. I'll check in with a free opinion/reflection: Yes, radio is blowing it. The over-emphasis on "hits" is a long-standing culprit. Also, there are bands that have released vinyl or CD that only has one thing on it with a load of filler. There is a great wealth of music that is overlooked by radio. There's an obvious point. If they broke it, they can fix it. I think if a station had the audacity to play great songs, be it a hit or an overlooked nugget, they could turn a dollar from it. Innovation is good business, in any business. I've heard "adventurous" radio before, but it's been awhile. My take-two cents worth. Hasta.

[BassGuy]

A local station started a fun trick about a month ago. Every so often they have tacky 50's monster movie music for their announcement of "Attack of the killer B's!" Then they play the B-side of a well known hit single. The xth caller with the correct info about what the A site was gets a t shirt or something, and the station then plays the hit. It's a good way to get more of their library heard.

[RABid]

Just the other day I was wishing for the days of AOR stations and wondering if the new XM satellite line-up had an AOR type station. Robert

[Tedster]

[quote]Originally posted by BassGuy: [b]A local station started a fun trick about a month ago. Every so often they have tacky 50's monster movie music for their announcement of "Attack of the killer B's!" Then they play the B-side of a well known hit single. The xth caller with the correct info about what the A site was gets a t shirt or something, and the station then plays the hit. It's a good way to get more of their library heard.[/b][/quote]Cool, but since the demise of the vinyl 45, I don't even think they have B sides anymore. Tom, I just about can't stand [b]any[/b] Boston anymore...our stations have played it to death..

[Virtual Jim]

[quote]DRI GWAR The Dead Kennedys FEAR Agnostic Front Sepultura Death Angel Metal Chruch Foo Fighters Mudhoney[/quote]What station plays DRI, Fear, Agnostic Front, death metal, or mudhoney? Man, if I ever heard "I Love Livin' In the City" on the radio, I'd probably puke or something. As far as my opinions on radio, for what it's worth, radio "eh". It's cool as hell you can turn a dial and instantly get some kind of music played to you where you don't have to swich cds, tapes, lps, etc. Yet at the same time, I've gotta agree that if I hear one more Skynyrd song on the radio, I'm gonna go postal. Sometimes I wish some stations realized the power they have and took a chance on a band they really thought was good.

[natty fred]

[quote] from KHAN; [b]This formula must sell the most ads, because if it didn't, they would do it differently.[/b] [/quote]yup, FYI I spend a few years as the finance manager for the collective advertising team for 20 odd radio stations and a bunch of music tv stations, including a couple of golden oldies and a youth orientated stations, The way these play lists are often build is based on polling what the "average" listener wants to hear. Also the stations about once a month bring a whole bunch of listeners to a big room and play them lots of material and asking them to mark their preferences on a form along with other suggestions. There is a lot of research that goes into these playlists. There are tables release each quarter based on "reach", ie, how many people listen to the station, and this dictates the advertising etc.... Maybe we are the exceptions being musicians & music lovers, but it seems that the average punter is happy with the current playlists.... my 2 pence worth... peace, natty [img]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/fk/butterfly.gif[/img] and if you are wondering, yes it was torturous, we were forced to listen to our own radio & tv stations all day :(