MIDI help - RPNs & NRPNs

[RecreationalThinker]

I did a search for RPNs & NRPNs just a minute ago, but didn't find anything specific. I am trying to automate my VS1680 from Sonar, and some of the effects parameters require NRPNs. I'm pretty comfortable with MIDI, but I have never used these capabilities, and have no idea what resources are available to help me activate/create/modify them. Since this forum is populated by the most intelligent, wise and tolerant people on the planet, I thought I would start here. Any and all information is greatly appreciated. ------------------ What's on, your mind?

[Ethan Winer]

> I am trying to automate my VS1680 from Sonar, and some of the effects parameters require NRPNs. I'm pretty comfortable with MIDI, but ... < These are generally entered as continuous controller data in your sequencer's event list. If you can quote the part of your VS1680 manual that tells you what is expected, I'll try to be more specific. What MIDI sequencer do you use? --Ethan

[Rod S]

If SONAR behaves like PA does, all you have to do it go to event editor/list (or the equivalent), add a new event, select it as type RPN or NRPN, enter the number, and the amount. The midi message for an RPN and NRPN is actually in two parts (vs only one part for a typical cc message), but cakewalk does the hard work.

[RecreationalThinker]

Thanks for your response, Ethan. I am currently at work, so I don't have access to the information you requested, but I'll give you some specific instances and user manual pages when I get home this evening. As I recall from my session yesterday, some of the effects parameters such as reverb depth, on/off status, etc require RPNs/NRPNs. I have seen reference to these in the past, but I don't have a resource where I can learn specifics about their creation and modification. Is this something that needs to be done in Hex? Sorry for the vague question so far. I will be more specific this evening. Thanks again for your response. By the way, Ethan, do you have extensive experience with Sonar? If so, I have a few other questions regarding audio clip editing. ------------------ What's on, your mind?

[philbo_Tangent]

[quote]Originally posted by RecreationalThinker: [b]I did a search for RPNs & NRPNs just a minute ago, but didn't find anything specific. I am trying to automate my VS1680 from Sonar, and some of the effects parameters require NRPNs. I'm pretty comfortable with MIDI, but I have never used these capabilities, and have no idea what resources are available to help me activate/create/modify them. Since this forum is populated by the most intelligent, wise and tolerant people on the planet, I thought I would start here. Any and all information is greatly appreciated. [/b][/quote] I'm not sure about your VS1680, but if it's anything like the Roland JP8000 synth, all you have to do is to find out what channels the unit uses for those controller messages, then 'play' the controls while Sonar records on those channels. (You might need to check the manual, to see if you have to set something to enable it to send out midi controller data when you move controls & stuff.) On the JP, which is a digital/analog synth hybrid, it sends out controller data & patch changes on 16, while the keyboard sends on 1 and/or 2, depending how the key split is set up. And the controller numbers are *strange* - it uses numbers like 10384 for the various controls. Even if it's too cumbersome to actually do your edits in real-time this way, once it's recorded you can easily determine the controller numbers by just looking at the event list. An easy test to see if this will work for you is to plug the VS midi out into the PC midi in, record on all 16 channels into Sonar, and play with the knobs on the unit. When you hit stop on the PC, select all the tracks and look at the event list - if there's anything there, you're in luck - And it will tell you what channels, controller numbers, etc. were used. Philbo Tangent Music

[Ethan Winer]

RT, Sorry for the delay getting back to you. > As I recall from my session yesterday, some of the effects parameters such as reverb depth, on/off status, etc require RPNs/NRPNs. ... Is this something that needs to be done in Hex? < Well, Hex numbers and base-10 numbers are all the same, and the different scehemes are just different ways of saying the same thing. If you have 17 oranges you call it 17 in Decimal, F1 in Hex, and 10001 in Binary. It's still 17 oranges. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] In some sequencers you have to enter byte values directly as numbers. Sonar may have an easier way to do that. > By the way, Ethan, do you have extensive experience with Sonar? If so, I have a few other questions regarding audio clip editing. < I don't. A good friend has it and I watch over his shoulder fairly often. But go ahead and ask - if I don't have an answer maybe someone else here will. --Ethan

[RecreationalThinker]

Thanks again for all the responses, they have been very useful. I misread the VS1680 manual, and it turns out I don't need the RPNs/NRPNs for what I thought I need them...but, I would still like some reference material about them (general information) if available. Ethan (or any other SONAR users), I upgraded to SONAR from PA9. In PA9, I was able to edit audio clips in the audio view and use a "scissors" tool to cut unwanted material. In SONAR, the Audio view doesn't exist as a separate entity since you can view the audio as part of the track view. What has me confused, though, is that there doesn't seem to be a scissor tool any longer? The only way I have found to edit audio is to split the clips, and copy to different locations as appropriate. Has the scissor tool gone the way of the Dodo in SONAR? Thanks again for all the help. ------------------ What's on, your mind?

[Master Zap]

The Scissor tool is not "needed" in SONAR. You can slip-edit the clips (drag in the ends) to "remove" (actually, "hide") unwanted material. To *really* take it away you have to do "Apply trimming" function on the track, which actually throws away the data slip-edited out. The second option to do the same thing is with the "Split" function and delete the unwanted segment... however, SONAR actually creates two slip-edited copies when you "Split" so you have actually not thrown anything away at all until you - just as above - do "Apply trimming". /Z