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IT'S OFFICIAL! Come, my little Mac lovelies, come to the dark side...


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Originally posted by Phait:

This means I will no longer be using any Apple product anymore. This means I no longer have a decent design or music production platform. This means my dream of 11 fucking years of cutting my own album(s) is dead. Windows and PC's will inevitably support DRM, hell - are starting to. Again since I don't support DRM, this means no more Windows gaming for me. And since I won't have any decent platform for music, this means I need to sell my $1500 workstation keyboard.

 

Do you think Beethoven would have given up music if they changed the type of lead in his pencil?

 

The tools are secondary. To allow a different chip to ruffle your feathers (eagle or otherwise) is to make the tools more important than the task, to allow the tail to wag the dog instead of the dog to wag the tail.

 

The idea that a computer that doesnt exist yet - that you dont own, that you may never own, that doesnt take anything away from you, that is simply one future option among a robust marketplace of increasingly powerful tools - could persuade you to not pursue a career in music (or design) is the tail wagging the dog to the nth degree. Its like youre seizing on what will ultimately be a blip on the radar screen to justify giving up. How can you be serious about what you do if something as peripheral as this is enough to knock you down? If Apple announcing a future chip change is enough to kill your dream of 11 years of cutting your own album, how serious of a dream was that in the first place?

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

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All I know is that they have the user interface, functionality, and style I want. They have a sense of humor. The OS lets me do what I want to do, with a minimum of hassle.

 

These are all true and valid points. "User Interface" is subjective, but Aqua is enjoyed by many.

 

I don't know that I'd go that far.

 

Yeah, my wording wasn't so great. My bad.

Let me trade "propaganda and herd mentality" with "slick marketing and image". Apple has an incredible marketing team, and they've carefully built an image around their productline.

 

Some people are more susceptible to paying attention to the Image than others, but there are plenty who do. I don't want to use the word "duped", because nobody is getting ripped off- Apple does have a good product. They do get their money's worth. But for every person like yourself, offramp, who bought a Mac after careful consideration of such things as UI, reliability, fitness for purpose and such, there's probably several more that went "OOOH! SHINY!!" and reached for their wallet.

 

Also to note, when ppl like offramp and coaster are busy doing things useful with their Mac, it's (in my experience) the "OOOH SHINY!!" fanboys that are the ones invading my little happy space with all the dickwaving and trolling.

 

I used to not know the difference, but i'm trying to get better ;)

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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WWND?

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Phait,

 

So why not make your album with a djembe and a portastudio?

 

I just think (and find) that creative souls just do their thing, and don't worry about this stuff. They just do it and let the chips fall where they may

 

(chips fall where they may!).

 

In the meantime, I'll check out the DRM stuff. I'm sure it will piss me off too, but won't stop me from making music.

 

-PL&B

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Originally posted by Brittanylips:

Originally posted by Phait:

This means I will no longer be using any Apple product anymore. This means I no longer have a decent design or music production platform. This means my dream of 11 fucking years of cutting my own album(s) is dead. Windows and PC's will inevitably support DRM, hell - are starting to. Again since I don't support DRM, this means no more Windows gaming for me. And since I won't have any decent platform for music, this means I need to sell my $1500 workstation keyboard.

 

Do you think Beethoven would have given up music if they changed the type of lead in his pencil?

 

The tools are secondary. To allow a different chip to ruffle your feathers (eagle or otherwise) is to make the tools more important than the task, to allow the tail to wag the dog instead of the dog to wag the tail.

 

The idea that a computer that doesnt exist yet - that you dont own, that you may never own, that doesnt take anything away from you, that is simply one future option among a robust marketplace of increasingly powerful tools - could persuade you to not pursue a career in music (or design) is the tail wagging the dog to the nth degree. Its like youre seizing on what will ultimately be a blip on the radar screen to justify giving up. How can you be serious about what you do if something as peripheral as this is enough to knock you down? If Apple announcing a future chip change is enough to kill your dream of 11 years of cutting your own album, how serious of a dream was that in the first place?

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

Well said.

 

 

Sorry Phait, but to me you are being more overly dramatic than a high school girl who got stood up on prom night.

 

Giving up your supposed dream because of something that doesn't exist yet? (a DRM Mac) :rolleyes:

 

C'mon man, grow up a little.

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Oh, and for what it's worth.... i'll be interested in seeing how these MacTel machines turn out.

 

I've gotten closer to considering owning Mac myself.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

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I don't understand why a few of you don't get my point. Do you support DRM, it's as simple as that. If you do, ideally you won't support a company that goes in this direction, whether they are implementing DRM now or inevitably in the future.
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I think a lot of ppl are saying "DRM can suckle upon my satchel". Either they'll cripple the DRM on their machines, change to a different machine, or quit using computers for it altogether. The point is that there's 50 ways to skin a cat and nobody or nothing will stand in the way of the dream.

 

The loyalty is to the dream and the art, not the tools, corporations who make the tools, or people behind them.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

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Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Good points all.

 

Hey Alndn and any other AMD fans... a question. If you had less than $300 right now to spend on an AMD processor + mobo, what's the best you can get for that? Keeping in mind it does not have to be totally bleeding edge, it would not be used for gaming and just occasionally for audio/video.

You can probably get an Athlon 64 3200 and a mobo for around $300 Lee. Check with www.newegg.com :wave:
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Originally posted by Phait:

I don't understand why a few of you don't get my point. Do you support DRM, it's as simple as that. If you do, ideally you won't support a company that goes in this direction, whether they are implementing DRM now or inevitably in the future.

Phait, I get your point, and I also have concerns over privacy issues with DRM... but I use an AMD, and I shut it off on the mobo. Simple as that. And I'm not someone who believes everyone is in on some conspiracy. It would take a LOT of companies - all over the world; every mobo manufacturer - to be "in on it", and if that's the case, for all you know, there could be something sinister inside old generation CPU's - Macs included - that no one knows about that is used to track everything and everybody. :rolleyes:

 

Besides, my AMD Athlon 64 3400 DAW system is intentionally left off line for security reasons. The last thing I can afford is to have my DAW taken out by a malicious bit of code such as a virus or worm. I use a second, dedicated machine for Internet duties, scan all my software updates and upgrades right after I finish the D/L, and then again before installing them on my DAW. So far, so good... and DRM is pretty much a non-issue for me.

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Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:

You can probably get an Athlon 64 3200 and a mobo for around $300 Lee. Check with www.newegg.com :wave:

Oh yeah, there are a ton of options. And yes I buy nearly all my stuff from Newegg. :) Just looking for specific recommendations, best features and reliability for the bucks.
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Originally posted by Lee Flier:

If you had less than $300 right now to spend on an AMD processor + mobo, what's the best you can get for that?

I'd go for an Nvidia chipset 939 Asus board like this one ($120) and any of the 939 socket AMD64's (start around $150).
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Pretend I'm playing devil's advocate here for a second, Phait:

 

What are your moral objections to people trying to exercise control over their intellectual property?

 

What do you think the practical effects of increased DRM capabilities in tomorrow's computers? (Keeping in mind that we already have a lot of DRM related issues on today's computers.) But I strongly suspect that enhanced DRM capabilities in tomorrow's computers will obviate such clumsy and instrusive DRM measures as CD's that simply won't play in computers.

 

 

I mean, I'm as annoyed, I suppose, as the next guy at having to do challenge-response serial number entry when I install the software I buy. And I wont knowingly buy, say, audio CD's that I can't use in my computer.

 

But DRM has actually made possible what is absolutely my number one favorite internet application: on demand music streams that allows me to quickly and easily find and listen to most of what I want to hear -- for only $5 a month.

 

Never before since I was in high school in the 60's has my monthly music bill been so low.

 

_____________________________________

 

And, as long as I'm walking down that long, dark, and twisting path of the devil's advocate, I have to say that I can't help but think someone who would let something like this actually dissuade him from pursuing his life's work may not have enough passion for that work, anyhow...

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Originally posted by theblue1:

What are your moral objections to people trying to exercise control over their intellectual property?

I don't have any. That's not the issue. The issue is that having this technology in our computers enables a lot more invasion of privacy than just intellectual property protection.
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Originally posted by theblue1:

Privacy is pretty much a social fiction in today's society.

The FBI could find anything they want on anybody they want at anytime. But I just don't believe the government or the powers that be will start invading just anyone's privacy. Do they really have the time for that? Maybe they do? Don't they need to focus on the people who are causing trouble? Hey, Phait and anyone else who might be worried about privacy, maybe you should read these books :

 

Hide Your Assets and Disappear

 

How to Be Invisible

 

How to Create a New Identity

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Originally posted by ryst:

The FBI could find anything they want on anybody they want at anytime. But I just don't believe the government or the powers that be will start invading just anyone's privacy. Do they really have the time for that?

That's always been what's really protected us from a true Big Brother situation - it would take too much time and resources for authorities to spy on everybody, all the time. Rifling through people's file cabinets, trash cans, wiretapping phones and that sort of thing requires a lot of time and manpower and expense, plus there's those pesky search warrants and red tape that you need to legally do all of that.

 

That's no longer true when the spying can be done conveniently from afar, "trigger" data collected in databases, etc. There is already an office in Washington that has been created to do just that (post 9/11), and Microsoft is already "selling" the "trusted computing" concept to governments.

 

A couple of years ago the government "supposedly" shut down the project, which was called "Total Information Awareness," because of public outrage. I mean it was laughable, the project's web site even had the mystical "third eye" as its logo! And they basically were coming right out and saying "Our goal is to be able to collect all information about everybody and spy on everybody, all the time, so that we can catch terrorists!" I guess they figured that in the aftermath of 9/11 the public would think this was all a great idea and they were wrong. But I'm quite sure they are still working on this type of technology, without the public's knowledge this time, and that DRM will play a major role.

 

They'll probably eventually get to that point anyway, but let's not make it easy for them!

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Kris, I think Phait's position is that he does not want to support a company in any way that furthers DRM, whether or not it's connected to the Internet.

 

There are still a lot of options for DAW's besides Intel and Apple though. :D

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Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Kris, I think Phait's position is that he does not want to support a company in any way that furthers DRM, whether or not it's connected to the Internet.

 

There are still a lot of options for DAW's besides Intel and Apple though. :D

I was just thinking. On both of my Macs, I have basically registration info (Name, address, and phone) and not much else. You could dig deep into my computers and you would find out much about me. At least I don't think. I don't keep anything really personal saved on my computer. I have never trusted my computer for that. As long as I completely clear the history and cache of my web browser, is it still possible for someone to find my passwords to my online banking site or find all the websites I have surfed? Or would a computer with DRM send that info out to a location to be saved for instant recall no matter if I erase the history on my computer or not?
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Right now the info on Intel's embedded DRM is pretty sketchy. The word that's out is that it's oriented to facilitating DRM with regard to authorized DVD playback and copy prevention, and the like.

 

I definitely sympathisize with those who are worried that it doesn't or won't stop there.

 

And I think those who distrust the government -- no matter how well-intentioned we might hope it is -- and its spying on common citizens have well-founded fears.

 

 

Nonetheless, if Phait lets this stop him from pursuing his dreamed-of career in graphics and design, the terrorists -- and J Edgar Hoover's fat, sputtering ghost -- have won.

 

Take it from me, if us 60's kids had rolled over that easy -- Nixon would still be in power.

 

:D

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Originally posted by Dylan:

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

If you had less than $300 right now to spend on an AMD processor + mobo, what's the best you can get for that?

I'd go for an Nvidia chipset 939 Asus board like this one ($120) and any of the 939 socket AMD64's (start around $150).
I've heard that most of the PCI-Express motherboards were not reliable for audio purposes. Just ordered a nForce3 (socket 939) motherboard because of this.

-Mike Martin

 

Casio

Mike Martin Photography Instagram Facebook

The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network

 

The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for.

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To those people who are wetting their panties and contemplating jumping off of a bridge because of some DRM rumour:

 

Where is the evidence that DRM will be implemented in the Apple/Intel chip ?

 

How about some proof, and not some lameass link, that has zero to do with the topic.

 

For a chip that's not even going to be out for a few years (on the Pro Macs, you know the one's that would be used by pros for music making), certain people are certainly jumping the gun, and drawing ridiculously absurd and uninformed conclusions.

 

If the Apple/Intel chip did utilize DRM, I'd be the first to say it sucks. However, I wouldn't wet my panties until it was known for a fact. The Apple user base would not go for it, me thinks.

 

Apple has never had anything to do with DRM before, that's Microsofts game.

.
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Nothing to do with DRM?

 

Dude... ever heard of a little venture called iTunes?

 

DRM made that possible.

 

 

But I completely agree that even those for whom any concept of digital rights management is anathema should just chill until they can see how things are going to shake out.

 

 

And, like I said, there's always Linux...

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