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IT'S OFFICIAL! Come, my little Mac lovelies, come to the dark side...


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How will this affect Apple's marketing? For years, the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field has been solidly against anything Intel (or more generally, x86 related). My favourite is the:

 

1mhz Apple == 4mhz PEECEE

 

Now, truthfully, trying to boil performance of something so complex as that down to a simple equation is total b.s.... I know it, you know it, Tom Servo know it and Zorak know it.... However, will this move to Intel processors (if done) humble the zealots* for awhile?

 

I'll admit i've trolled against the Apple Zealots before, (and yeah i'm being a bit smug at the moment) but I'm curious to see how they deal with the way this turn of events makes all their previous claims somewhat awkward...

 

There will still be plenty of differences (the processor will be specialized i'm sure) but it just seems that as more and more of the Apple architecture starts becoming Just Like PEECEEs, i wonder how they'll continue to keep arguing that "Apple computers are made of superior hardware".

 

Thoughts?

 

*: For the record, i don't think we have any hardcore zealots here on MP like i describe, so i'm not talking bout j00. ;)

Y'all know the type- and i'm not about to say that there aren't plenty of annoying windows/linux/bsd zealots either ;)

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Oh yeah.... and it won't surprise me when they announce it is some trivial component (not the processor) that gets made by Intel (like a RTS clock or something). The rumour mills love to take tidbits like this and "help" it get blown out of proportion :D

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Hey guys, Here is an intersting take on what might happen.

 

Hollywood Orders: Apple Wed Intel

 

The weather's absolutely beautiful here in San Francisco but I blew the entire weekend in front of the computer (again) trying to figure out Apple's purported move to Intel.

 

At first, it was just too hard to believe, and I dismissed it as nonsense, but two serious news organizations are reporting it as a done deal (News.com and WSJ), and on Sunday morning a couple of things fell into place making it look a lot more plausible.

 

I guess Apple will move to Intel, and they're relying on a fast, seamless emulator to do it.

 

But it's really about Hollywood: Apple's looking to transform the movie industry the same way the iPod and iTunes changed the music business.

 

As initially reported, there are a couple of big problems with Apple moving to Intel. The biggest is shifting all the Mac software to a new platform. Apple apparently mulled moving to Intel a few years ago, when Motorola's chip development fell woefully behind, but Steve Jobs nixed it because of the massive disruption it would cause developers.

 

What's new this time is a fast, transparent, universal emulator from Transitive, a Silicon Valley startup.

 

Transitive's QuickTransit allows any software to run on any hardware with no performance hit, or so the company claims. The techology automatically kicks in when necessary, and supports high-end 3D graphics. It was developed by Alasdair Rawsthorne.

 

When I wrote about the software for Wired News last fall, the company had PowerBooks and Windows laptops running Linux software, including Quake III, with no performance lag whatsoever.

 

If Apple has licensed QuickTransit for an Intel-powered Mac, all current applications should just work, no user or developer intervention required.

 

Programmers could port their software to the new platform slowly and steadily, and the shift would be as relatively painless as the recent move from OS 9 to OS X, which, of course, relied on emulation in the Classic environment.

 

But why would Apple do this? Because Apple wants Intel's new Pentium D chips.

 

Released just few days ago, the dual-core chips include a hardware copy protection scheme that prevents "unauthorized copying and distribution of copyrighted materials from the motherboard," according to PC World.

 

Apple -- or rather, Hollywood -- wants the Pentium D to secure an online movie store (iFlicks if you will), that will allow consumers to buy or rent new movies on demand, over the internet.

 

According to News.com, the Intel transition will occur first in the summer with the Mac mini, which I'll bet will become a mini-Tivo-cum-home-server.

 

Hooked to the internet, it will allow movies to be ordered and stored, and if this News.com piece is correct, loaded onto the video iPod that's in the works.

 

Intel's DRM scheme has been kept under wraps -- to prevent giving clues to crackers -- but the company has said it will allow content to be moved around a home network, and onto suitably-equipped portable devices.

 

And that's why the whole Mac platform has to shift to Intel. Consumers will want to move content from one device to another -- or one computer to another -- and Intel's DRM scheme will keep it all nicely locked down.

 

Presumably, Jobs used his Pixar moxie to persuade Hollywood to get onboard, and they did so because the Mac platform is seen as small and isolated -- just as it was when the record labels first licensed music to iTunes. The new Mac/Intel platform will be a relatively isolated test bed for the digital distribution of movies and video.

 

Will current Mac users like this new locked-down platform? I doubt it, which I guess is why it's going into consumer devices first.

 

In the PC industry, Apple lost the productivity/office era to Microsoft, but it's trying to get the jump on the next big thing: the entertainment/creativity era, and it's going to drag it users, even if they're kicking and screaming, with it.

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I mentioned DRM-enabled chips in a previous thread here on this topic, as a matter of fact.

 

This reasoning makes plenty of sense to me.

 

 

Except for the part where they have an emulator that introduces no performance hit. Yeah, right. I've got a cat who never pukes on the floor, either.

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Oh... I picked him up second hand.

 

Actually, he really almost never does puke. I wish he did more, honestly, it's just not natural for a cat to puke this little. Particularly one with enough hair to make three cats...

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Maybe he doesn't know how? Being of such "questionable" background might explain why.

 

Perhaps you could instruct him, and/or hold "vomit workshop" sessions. You know, where you two get together on the kitchen floor, eat a bunch of pasta and take turns gakking it up.

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I guess you guys don't read Slashdot . Intel has specifically stated that there is no DRM in the new chips.

 

Not only that, but it looks as if Jobs specifically called out the Intel stuff as rumors in the keynote address at WWDC (Apple Developers Conference) that's going on even as we speak.

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Originally posted by theblue1:

Oh... I picked him up second hand.

 

Actually, he really almost never does puke. I wish he did more, honestly, it's just not natural for a cat to puke this little. Particularly one with enough hair to make three cats...

Wanna trade him for the magic computer that NEVER crashes?

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President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion."

President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."

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Originally posted by GeorgeVW:

I guess you guys don't read Slashdot . Intel has specifically stated that there is no DRM in the new chips.

 

Not only that, but it looks as if Jobs specifically called out the Intel stuff as rumors in the keynote address at WWDC (Apple Developers Conference) that's going on even as we speak.

Intel Inside

10:00AM - Monday, June 6 2005 ~direct from the WWDC keynote speech

Apple and Intel? Yes, it's true; Steve Jobs made it official at the keynote to the Apple World Wide Developers Conference today. Apple will be using Intel CPUs starting June 2006, and a complete transition will be done by 2007. Steve confirmed that for the past 5 years, Mac OS X for Intel has been in development, and Steve even did the whole keynote using an Intel-based system. As for Mac apps, Coca apps will require small tweaks; Carbon apps will require more tweaks; Metrowerks apps need to be recompiled using Xcode (version 2.1 was released today).

 

http://www.macaddict.com/

Pascal Sijen

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www.abluesky.com

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Dude, you don't know how close you are to the truth.

 

Sometimes it seems like he needs to upchuck but stops himself, as though he's been traumatized into holding it back.

 

So I've literally acted out vomiting to him to to try to convince him it's okay...

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Originally posted by BlueSky:

Intel Inside

10:00AM - Monday, June 6 2005 ~direct from the WWDC keynote speech

Apple and Intel? Yes, it's true; Steve Jobs made it official at the keynote to the Apple World Wide Developers Conference today. Apple will be using Intel CPUs starting June 2006, and a complete transition will be done by 2007. Steve confirmed that for the past 5 years, Mac OS X for Intel has been in development, and Steve even did the whole keynote using an Intel-based system. As for Mac apps, Coca apps will require small tweaks; Carbon apps will require more tweaks; Metrowerks apps need to be recompiled using Xcode (version 2.1 was released today).

 

http://www.macaddict.com/

Ahhh! Whoever's doing the live feed for MacRumors from the keynote reported that the Intel rumors were only rumors. Well, I guess that completely blows their credibility.

 

I gotta say that, having just bought a new G5 DP, I'm not terribly happy with this, as I usually assume 3 years per computer, and this means that I'll probably have to get a new CPU earlier than that.

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Wanna trade him for the magic computer that NEVER crashes?

 

I have a computer that NEVER crashes. It isn't magic, but i also do not want a cat.

 

So I've literally acted out vomiting to him to to try to convince him it's okay...

 

I SEEEEEE YOUUUU!!! ;)

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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The DRM angle is very interesting, because Longhorn is all about security. So Apple beat Microsoft on the "revamped file search" thing (althought it doesn't seem as powerful as Microsoft's vision), and I guess now they'll treat to beat Microsoft in the secure content sweepstakes.

 

It does make me nervous, though, that the only real factors in personal computer will rely on a single chip source...

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Originally posted by Anderton:

 

It does make me nervous, though, that the only real factors in personal computer will rely on a single chip source...

Well, Craig, it's only a matter of time until you will need to have 616 tatooed on your hand in order to buy a beef jerky. :D

Is Steve Jobs the Anti-Christ? :evil::freak:

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Originally posted by Anderton:

The DRM angle is very interesting, because Longhorn is all about security. So Apple beat Microsoft on the "revamped file search" thing (althought it doesn't seem as powerful as Microsoft's vision), and I guess now they'll treat to beat Microsoft in the secure content sweepstakes.

 

It does make me nervous, though, that the only real factors in personal computer will rely on a single chip source...

AMD is still around and still pushing forward... their chips continue to outperform Intel's chips in certain benchmarks.
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i only wish that when x86 turned into 64-bit, that they had scrapped everything right then and there and started from scratch.

 

There's lots of "kludge on top of kludge" stuff in the x86 hardware architecture. I had thought that Intel tried to do this, but AMD undermined them by making their chips backwards compatible to 32-bit. (Amazingly, it wasn't Microsoft this time, who is mostly responsible for all the kludging up till that point). Yeah it saves some people some $$ now, but in the long run, we're all stuck with it.

 

It's really too bad, actually.

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It's a hard-learned lesson of the marketplace.

 

You need continuity and backwards-compatability if you want to coax people onto the new platform.

 

And that's across the board, whether it's Windows, the Mac, or various software platforms.

 

You have to keep moving forward -- even as you're always shoring up your backfield.

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But this doesn't mean that the Intel move is perminant, does it? Apple used to use Motorola, then IBM, now Intel. Isn't it possible that they could switch again if their chipmaker of the present doesn't meet their needs of the future?

 

------------------------------------------------

WWDC: Jobs discusses Intel, more on CNBC

 

"We have a good relationship with IBM, and they've got a product road map, and today, the products are really good," Jobs said when asked what IBM had failed to deliver, in his estimation. "But as we look out into the future, where we want to go is maybe a little bit different. We can envision some awesome products we want to build for our customers in the next few years, and as we look out a year or two in the future, Intel's processor roadmap really aligns with where we want to go much more than any other."

 

The transition is beginning now, Jobs said, to "get us where we want to be to build the kind of future products we want to build."

 

"Our products today are fine," Jobs added, "but it's really a year or two down the future where we see some issues."

 

---------------------------------------

 

Who knows? Maybe Intel will get stuck in a performance rut and then IBM, Motorola, or another chipmaker could come up with a break through that Apple might be interested in?

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Isn't it possible that they could switch again if their chipmaker of the present doesn't meet their needs of the future?

 

certainly.

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Originally posted by ryst:

But this doesn't mean that the Intel move is perminant, does it? ...Who knows? Maybe Intel will get stuck in a performance rut and then IBM, Motorola, or another chipmaker could come up with a break through that Apple might be interested in?

Absolutely.

 

But it takes a long time to turn around the corporate battleship.

 

If news reports are correct, the OSX on x86 project has been in development for five years. It may well have been approached as a contingency plan, to be sure, but it reflects the long lead times that such changes require.

 

And that highlights a danger of SSS -- single supplier sourcing.

 

Those of us in the business world know the dangers of putting 'all your eggs in one basket.' (Which is one reason I've always been attracted to hardware standards that allow multiple vendors to compete in a given standard. And why I find the promise of open source software so very tantalizing.)

 

 

Now, we don't know many details at all, at this point. But it surely can't escape notice that there is another major chip vendor with a product in direct and somewhat successful competition with Intel in the arena that they created.

 

If Intel disappoints Apple, it seems likely that the cross-jump to AMD as a supplier would be considerably less trouble than the jump from the PPC chips to x86 family chips.

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If Intel disappoints Apple, it seems likely that the cross-jump to AMD as a supplier would be considerably less trouble than the jump from the PPC chips to x86 family chips.

 

True yes, but $5 says that the Intel chips that are going into the Mac are going to be fairly specialized, and the entire mobo around these chips will be very Mac-only.

 

Sure, AMD could do this too, but i guess the point i'm trying to say is that it's still going to be a fairly "newish" architecture...

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This is fucking depressing.

 

I know it's just a computer, but look.

 

DRM? I don't care if Intel says "no the chips don't have DRM" -- they probably fucking do, and I will NOT SUPPORT any computer that has this. I do not care if it means the end of computing for me. I don't!

 

Secondly, apps will still have to be rewritten/optimized for Intel CPU's. It doesn't matter that it is apparently "easy" to do this. I need a G5 this year for school, I will probably be getting it. But what if in the future I need new software, but it doesn't support PPC anymore. I have to get a new fucking Apple, and software.

 

I will not.

 

This SUCKS MAJORLY. It affects not just personal computer users it affects people with computer careers, and that means me, in the future, with graphic design.

 

It will only get worse. I am waiting for the dark, 24/7 government patrolled streets and lack of freedoms and privacy of the "Half-Life 2" plot to become a reality.

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Originally posted by Phait:

 

I will not.

 

I bet you will...

Seriously, what the f*ck with the candles? Where does this candle impulse come from, and in what other profession does it get expressed?

-steve albini

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No, I will not and I stand by that. I swear on my life I will not support or buy anything with DRM. If it means no more computers the rest of my life, so fucking be it. I'll take up landscaping and do analog recording.
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