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Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith...now with added spoilers


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Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

So, what's the SSS consensus on rating the six movies against each other? I haven't seen ROTS yet, but the general populace seems to be leaning as follows (best to worst):

 

1. Empire Strikes Back (V)

2. A New Hope (IV)

3. Revenge of the Sith (III)

4. Return of the Jedi (VI)

5. Attack of the Clones (II)

6. The Phantom Menace (I)

 

Your thoughts?

 

- Jeff

That's a tough question. I can easily rank 4,5,and 6;

4. AToC

5. TPM

6. ROTJ

 

I always thought that Empire was my favorite of the bunch until I saw ANH in the theater again. Now I'm not so sure. Hard call.

 

ROTS is either number 3 or number 2 on my list.

 

I really need to see them all in wide screen format on a decent sized screen to really rank them.

I look forward to deliberating long and hard, with a big bowl of popcorn and a large softdrink. :)

Super 8

 

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Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

1. Empire Strikes Back (V)

2. A New Hope (IV)

3. Revenge of the Sith (III)

4. Return of the Jedi (VI)

5. Attack of the Clones (II)

6. The Phantom Menace (I)

 

Your thoughts?

 

- Jeff

Ditto except that the bottom two are reversed for me. I enjoyed all of them on some sort of level, even if I am sorta critical of the bottom two.
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I saw it last Sunday afternoon, 5:30pm showing. We bought tix from Fandango an hour before and showed up at the theatre at 5:15pm and got decent seats. I was pleasantly surprised there were no huge lines but so many theatres in my areas are showing it in most of their screens so that may explain it.

 

Anyway, I thought the movie was good. Definitely better than I&II but I wouldn't go as far as ranking it above the original trilogy. Part of me was very relieved I didn't find even one glaring, annoying thing on III (besides the Tarzan thing but that was like 2 seconds) unlike I&II where a handful that were too annoying (JarJar, Padme falling off the transport, etc.).

 

I thought the switch from Anakin to Darth was pretty good.

 

Taking a look at I,II,andIII, I'm actually disappointed at Obi Wan's portrayal. McGregor is a good actor, but it seemed to me how Obi Wan was portrayed was close to being more of a sidekick to Anakin than his mentor - especially how Anakin keeps saving his hide. I hoped he would be cooler, like Liam Neeson's character in I, but many times Obi Wan seemed buffoonish to me.

 

Also, I thought by II, we would've already seen Darth Vader and III would show how Darth and the Empire rules the Universe and see the beginning of the rebellion (or even the failed attempts of the rebellion fighting against the Empire and Darth). I expected (before any of the new trilogy came out) to hate Darth by the end of III because in IV, Darth is already portrayed as the most evil thing in the universe. By the end of III, I come away with Darth as more of a "misguided youth" as opposed to a real evil villain. I would've been happier if I&II were combined into the first movie, III be actually the second, and my third would be more about how Darth really became feared.

 

But III did kind of salvage I&II for me so that I'll probably buy the I,II,III DVD box set. If III was as bad as I and II, I'd probably wouldn't have bought any of them. I do have IV,V and VI DVD box set.

aka riffing

 

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1. IV

2. VI

3. III

4. V

5. II

6. I

 

I have sentimental value for IV. I saw it opening weekend back in 77. My Dad thought it was a kid movie with good special effects. He might be right.

 

ROTJ? I liked the way Luke brought his father back. It was befitting of a hero, and closed out the epic nicely. The movie has many flaws, but I remember leaving the theatre feeling really good. Just like a 'guy flick' should. :D

 

The new movie may be the best, Ill need to watch them all again. With that, let me say that

1. Yoda rules. Lucas, an amazing character create he did.

2. Mace? He needed a little Jules Winfield in his character.

3. Lucas is one ultra rich man from these movies. He should keep making them!

 

edited for roman number crap. blast me

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I saw it last night and feel like I need to see it again. :) It unfornately wasn't the best movie theater and one of my favorite aspects (SOUND) was not well represented.

 

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. I thought that McGregor was phenominal, visually it was stunning as well. The last 15 minutes of the film, beginning with battle between Obi-wan and Anakin...through Anakin's transformation to Darth Vader was excellent. The score by John Williams was incredible (notice the use of synthesizers!!) The long scene where he and Padme are looking out the window was absolutely beautiful.

 

A few parts were somewhat underwhelming, or anti-climatic. General Grevious, while incredible looking didn't do much for me as a villian. When the Chancelor became deformed from his battle with Mace, I could have done without the processing on his voice (He already had the spooky voice), the processing was annoying and his performance at that point almost became funny. This should have be the most intense part of the movie.. Anakin's switch to the dark side also seemed to be lacking something...

 

Maybe it was the sound system in this theater that just blew the hole damn thing for me. I guess I'll have to go see it again. :)

-Mike Martin

 

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I was disappointed that the Dooku didn't get a bigger part in this one. The way they set him up in II was pretty cool. I guess ultimately he turned out to be a pawn....which is pretty much what Anakin is as well.

 

Originally posted by Mike Martin:

The score by John Williams was incredible (notice the use of synthesizers!!)

I didn't catch the synths, but I did notice that Williams was recycling a lot of themes from all of the different films. I was wondering why he might do that, and it occured to me that this is the movie that joins the prequals to the original trilogy. Any thoughts?

 

General Grevious, while incredible looking didn't do much for me as a villian.

I liked Grevious a lot.

Did anybody else think that his asthmatic breathing and coughing were satirical paradies of Vader's trademark breathing?

 

When the Chancelor became deformed from his battle with Mace, I could have done without the processing on his voice (He already had the spooky voice), the processing was annoying and his performance at that point almost became funny.

I'd go along with that. I'm not certain what the point of that was.

Palpatine's switch to the 'Emperor' was alnmost too drastic. I didn't understand why his voice changed.

Super 8

 

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Originally posted by Rim:

Taking a look at I,II,andIII, I'm actually disappointed at Obi Wan's portrayal. McGregor is a good actor, but it seemed to me how Obi Wan was portrayed was close to being more of a sidekick to Anakin than his mentor - especially how Anakin keeps saving his hide. I hoped he would be cooler, like Liam Neeson's character in I, but many times Obi Wan seemed buffoonish to me.

 

That's a really interesting observation. I've come to think that Obi Wan is intentionally portrayed as if not an inferior Jedi then a pedestrian one: high in character, but modest in Jedi skills, neither the inspired maverick that his own master was nor the Michael Jordan of Jedi that his padawan seemed destined to be. His chief calling seems to be diplomacy. It is well known in Star Wars literature that Yoda is the most powerful and wisest Jedi, that Mace Windu is the best with the light saber, etc. Kenobi is the everyman Jedi--blandly good-looking, inoffensive, effortlessly courteous in the old sense of that word.

 

And I love, love LOVE the way that McGregor has modeled his performances after Alec Guinness!

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Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

1. Empire Strikes Back (V)

2. A New Hope (IV)

3. Revenge of the Sith (III)

4. Return of the Jedi (VI)

5. Attack of the Clones (II)

6. The Phantom Menace (I)

That actually looks spot on to me. :thu:

 

What I-III really lacked was a character like Han Solo to lift them up to V and IV, IMO.

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Perhaps Obi-Wan is great in other ways, such as showing great wisdom or some such thing.

Z~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I wanted to revise my "rating" of the different movies and make "Empire Strikes Back" and "A New Hope" tied for first place since I'm not really sure which I like more. They're both thoroughly enjoyable.

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Originally posted by Super 8:

I was disappointed that the Dooku didn't get a bigger part in this one. The way they set him up in II was pretty cool. I guess ultimately he turned out to be a pawn....which is pretty much what Anakin is as well.

 

General Grevious, while incredible looking didn't do much for me as a villian.

I liked Grevious a lot.

Did anybody else think that his asthmatic breathing and coughing were satirical paradies of Vader's trademark breathing?

I did NOT like Dooku, and I was glad to see him go early. He just came off as stop gap between Maul and Vader.

 

When I first saw Grevious, I saw the line drawn between him and the "life support" Vader. Same thing, a guy kept alive by robotics, essentially. When I saw him in one of the trailers, I figured that was part of the technology used to keep Vader alive...just not to the same extent. Grevious as a whole (not the ROTS version, at his end) is one of my favorite new characters. Too bad the movie showed him in a depleted state.

Peace

If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
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I guess I'll have to watch I&II again, but I don't recall Obi teaching Anakin too much - unlike Quai Gon who gives Obi some advice on I. I just remember Anakin saving Obi and Obi kind of laughing it off each time. I thought Jedi's were supposed to be good enough not be in harm's way so many times. In III, Obi kidded with Ani about being saved by him 20 times if I remember correctly. I thought Jedis should be able to save their own skin or at least be smart enough to avoid life-threatening situations.

 

I never read any of the books so I'm basing my opinion of Obi on IV. On IV, Obi was the wisest and coolest guy. Of course, when we meet Yoda in V, we see Yoda as the wisest but I didn't think Obi was the "numb nuts" of the Jedi clan. ;)

aka riffing

 

Double Post music: Strip Down

 

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Well im in Brisbane, Australia... capital city and a damn lovely one too. I went to see it at a late night screening (no not the may 19th grand opening, but a few days after) and i decided to see it at a cinema that has sprung up in the building that was once an IMAX.

 

The super-giant screen was stunning, no doubt about it, but the SOUND was TERRIBLE!!!! It didnt ruin my experience as such but it severely destroyed the mood. In particular was the stunning lack of sync in the stereo image - completely unforgivable for a "blockbuster" movie event in a "premiere" setting. Every quiet moment was a mess of 'doubling' which meant i had to hear the pathetic script being repeated, like a high school love drama being run through a cheap behringer mixer and out a broken DDD1 delay pedal.

 

The other gripe i had was with the "film" stock as it were... ive seen some amazing things on this IMAX screen. Once i lived in a fantastic big house with other geeks of the multimedia kind and we used to go see the amazing 3D movies at least once a week at IMAX, so i know what it can do with CGI. For some reason some scenes in SW3 were just a horrible vague blur, which i cant tell wether is due to content, equipment or the night in specific (human error etc). Point is, whats the point of a billion CGI frames if they turn to mush when projected?

 

All that aside, i enjoyed the film for what it was. I realised about half an hour into the movie that despite an entire world of geeks wanting something more, it really is just a pretty average story with pretty average jokes by a pretty average film maker. for the most part i wanted closure - and something special... which never arose. dont get me wrong, i enjoy the series a lot, but i saw the part IV as a toddler, part V as a toddler, and part VI i saw in a DRIVE IN... how many kids even know what that is?

 

i just read the online synopsis of the proposed story of eps 7, 8 and 9 and its complete bulls***... please let this trademark/product retire gracefully. enough cliches have been trundled out, and the series is at a profitable conslusion. enough is enough.

 

dont even start me on the f**king lame "nnooooooooooooo" of the newly formed Vader... that sequence totally ruined any cinematic movement that the rise of Vader might have had... that could have been AWESOME but was rushed and... well... "nooooooo"... i actually laughed it was so terrible.

 

"stellllaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

I respect the pressures that Lucas has faced, and completely respect his success as a film maker and business-man, but i have no respect for his actual directorial or film guiding skills... this movie and the last three are indeed pretty woeful if you strip away pop cultural significance. At the end of the day im sure nerds will always praise him, but i cant help but think about Peter Jackson... a "nobody" who pulled three amazing films out of an almost untouchable book (Lord of The Rings if youve forgotten), did them all at once, using pioneering technology andinnovative manpower managment of a newly formed tea, and made GOOD movies. Also he managed to get GOOD performances out of his actors... look how well Orlando Bloom is doing now!

 

Lucas has EVERYTHING at his disposal and trundles this crap out?

 

"NNnoooooooooo"

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Well I saw it tonight, and liked it. But still a little disappointed.

 

I got great laughs out of the robot midwife, Darth Vader doing the zombie walk when rising for the first time, and the corny stuff (like Luke being handed over at sunset whilst Owen stands in the background in the same position Luke does in Ep 4).

 

Yoda was the highlight of both Ep 2 and 3 for me ;)

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Originally posted by teh dri:

I realised about half an hour into the movie that despite an entire world of geeks wanting something more, it really is just a pretty average story with pretty average jokes by a pretty average film maker.

Sorry, but there's nothing "average" about George Lucas. He has redefined how movies are made.

 

Have you ever seen American Graffiti? It's an absolutely brilliant film, and very different in it's approach from other films.

Star Wars came out, and was competely different from anything people had seen before.

 

Whether you like the final product or not, the word "average" does not describe Lucas at all.

Super 8

 

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Okay..maybe the yell was a little over the top, but somebody please tell me how you're supposed to move, and specifically walk, when your limbs have been replaced by robo-prostheses? I think you'd move like Frankenstein, too.

Peace

If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
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I agree with Super that none of the movies are average..

 

 

Some other logic faults that amused me:

 

- that Darth Vader is screaming in pain while being treated - they obviously don't use painkillers in the future? :)

 

- when Vader is returned for treatment, they have to walk through the rain from the ship to the Emperor's place - they obviously are still searching for the technology that allows a covered walkway :D

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Originally posted by nursers:

Some other logic faults that amused me:

 

- that Darth Vader is screaming in pain while being treated - they obviously don't use painkillers in the future? :)

...or a long, long time ago in a galaxy far far away....
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Well, I just saw it (pirate DVD version, complete with editing ticker on the top of the screen) and I thought the interplay between Anakin, the Emperor, and the Jedi Council was pretty interesting. Yes, the romantic dialog between Anakin and Padme was dorky and awkward, however I loved the plot mechanic where Anakin's precognition is resolved by his descent into darkness. I thought that was a stroke of genius on Lucas' part. Obi-Wan's closing commentary as he left Anakin to burn was strong - probably the most human I saw him in EP I-III. There were a lot of really solid moments in this film, enough to overcome the forced romantic drivel.

 

IMHO, this one definitely redeemed him for the last two duds.

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I'd just like to say that this is longest thread I have ever started. Is there an award for that? Someone at MP gonna send me a canned ham or something? :)

 

Originally posted by nursers:

Some other logic faults that amused me:

 

- that Darth Vader is screaming in pain while being treated - they obviously don't use painkillers in the future? :)

 

- when Vader is returned for treatment, they have to walk through the rain from the ship to the Emperor's place - they obviously are still searching for the technology that allows a covered walkway :D

Dude, it's a Sith thang! Umbrellas and pain killers are for pansies!

 

Actually, I thought the rain was symbolic.

Super 8

 

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Originally posted by deanmass:

Hmm

 

4 ( Dreams of my youth)

5 (YODA!)

3 Easter Eggs!

2 (snore)

6 (EWOKS!)

1 (Jar Jar)

:D

 

4 ("Ohmahgosh, this is fantastic! What a great movie! And this is just the opening sequence!!!!!!!!") AND

5 (Yoda also - kinda tied for first place with Episode 4)

 

3 (light-sabre duels! And a whole lot more!)

 

6 (Yeah - Ewoks)

 

1 (Misa don't like Jar Jar)

 

2 (wooden, had actually forgotten that I had seen it in the theatre until renting the DVD! :eek: )

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OK, so clearly since I just spent my morning reading all of these posts after seeing the movie yesterday, I liked it. :)

 

The Vader "Nooo!" was laughable. It's interesting how many scenes would have benefited from good editing, none more than this one. First of all, Lucas seemed to forget the whole myth element that he created. Once Vader's mask is on, his character is no longer a human being with ambiguous *feelings*, he is the embodiment of technology, the 'Machine', etc., etc. This is why the removal of the mask is so profound in Ep. 6. He regains his humanity. (Joseph Campbell did a great analysis of this way back when.) So when the suit and the mask go on and he's, like, "Dude, where's my wife." Awful, awful, awful. He's gone. He's Vader. Just give us a long take with a dramatic score, and cut!

 

The transformation of Anakin during the Mace/Palpatine fight was totally forced. One of the nice things about the plot of Ep 3 was Anakin's victimization of his own circumstance. That was actually well done: the way a person changes as the result of what he's been dealt with in his life, all the turmoil and suffering, and at the same time having immense power. Say what you will about dialogue, but that's pretty good characterization. So I needed something more with what is the most profound character change in the history of the series. It just fell flat.

 

The last 30 minutes, I must have counted 5 times when the audience laughed when they shouldn't have. FrankenVader was one. The Emperor's pratfall in the opening of his fight with Yoda was another. The cut to Obi-Wan standing with hands on hips on Padme's ship was another. Again... awful editing.

 

Those are my quibbles. I actually really, really enjoyed it. Here's a shocker: I thought Hayden Christiansen was great in this one. He was brooding, introspective, and conflicted. He had to carry this movie and he did it well. I thought he was magnetic in every scene he was in. Also, the whole thing had really nice pacing, some (shock!) good dialogue and conversations. The whole thing just moved along nicely for me and had me completely compelled. I also was moved by the slaughtering of the Jedi. That totally worked for me on an emotional level.

 

Another thought: I agree with what someone else said about Obi-Wan. I think Ewan McGreggor is just too young of an actor. He and Anakin were too close in age for there to be any respect on Anakin's part. But, hey, maybe that works to the story. Obi-Wan's not father-figure enough for Anakin, which is maybe why he seeks out Palpatine?

 

My ranking:

1. IV

2. V

3. VI

4. III

5. I

6. II (puke)

Just for the record.
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By the way, regarding aesthetics: I, too, found real problems with the sound. There was some bad dialogue re-recording and the overall timbre of the voices lacked depth. Also, some of the mixing seemed lazy... odd pannings and volume automation, etc.

 

And there was some really, really bad lighting. Padme on the balcony when Anakin's saying how beautiful she is... She looked *awful*. There were quite a few scenes where the lighting was unintentionally very unflattering.

 

I'm done now! :)

Just for the record.
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You brought my attention to the fan movie, Revelations. I've watched half of it and it already has more going for it than either prequel. The acting is not great, but it sure has a passion I find sorely lacking in the prequels.
I totally agree. I had seen Revelations twice before I saw e3, and frankly I didn't quite get the plot until my wife and I saw the movie. But after watching e3, we went home and watched Revelations, which now made much more sense. My wife had not been especially enthusiastic about e3, there were some glaring plot holes and a couple of curious apparent lapses in makeup, but overall she liked the movie and had a good time.

 

I told her what Revelations was, about the fan scene, and the budget, and to think of it as Star Wars 3.5.

 

About 15 minutes in, she turned to me and said, "This is very cool. It's like a really good soap opera, isn't it." I realized - she's right, Revelations is edited like a soap, with pretty good CG between or in the background. Nevertheless, I would like to see that group continue with more SW episodes. Despite the director being a wooden actor, he did a good job of soap-level directing, which could make it into a series on Sci-Fi Channel. And he already knows a lot about staying under budget...

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