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Hi guys!. When using 3 mics for the whole set, 2 over and a kick. Is it better to use LDC or SDC are ok? what all porpuse mic is good to use in the kick in case you dont have a special mic for this?
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It depends on what SDC and what LDC and what sound you are going for.

 

Where are you placing the kick mic? If on the outside, I frequently use an LDC, although an Earthworks mic would work really well for this.

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Thanks ken... actually i dont have more mics than a sm 57, and my questions are because i am buying mics. I plan to put it outside, what LDC do you use? what SPL capacity should have a LDC to be good for drums/kick?
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If I had to track only 3 mics I'd probably go with a single point stereo mic such as the Shure VP-88 and a rode NTK room mic. for a $500 budget I'd put up a single NTK. IMHO no 3 mics for $500 will match what you can capture with a bit of patience and proper placement with a single NTK.

Hope this is helpful.

 

NP Recording Studios

Analog approach to digital recording.

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For that price? That's slim pickin's. Maybe try three Marshall mics or something, I don't really know. Maybe Audio-Technica has some cheap SDCs.

 

I use a AT4060 for my kick drum mic. I am not saying that this the best mic for the outside of a kick drum - I just use what I have. But that said, I get monster kick drum sounds that have drummers smiling.

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Three marshalls yeah, that is one of my options. 1 mic where? mmm Id prefer to have three or two even if that would be a little (or much) less quality.

 

Do the mics suffer some degradation by being exposed to high SPL's? (if the spl level is within its range)

 

I was thinking also in this:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NT5/

 

And some other LDC... it is sad to be poor :(

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Originally posted by Wooden:

 

... it is sad to be poor :(

No doubt. But it is more important to focus on what is going into the microphone, much more than what kind of microphone it is.

The importance of the sound's nature, the sound's importance, conviction and attitude will supercede any mic and or pre, or compressor or EQ.

 

Ok maby we need eq. :)

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I dissagree with Hall. You can have the greatest sounding kit in the world in the most perfect room played by the best drummer, but it the chain it's being recorded through is medeocre, so will be the results. I'd take one good mic and pre over 3 cheapo mics anyday. Quality over quantity.

 

IMHO ithe importance of the sounds nature is equally imporant as the recording chaing, they work hand in hand.

 

For one mic placement, start about 6 feet from the kit, in front, and place the mic in the kit center at about chest height to the drummer. this requires a well balanced and tuned kit, and a good player with gret dynamics, but the results can be quite amazing.

Hope this is helpful.

 

NP Recording Studios

Analog approach to digital recording.

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Now, my understanding is that those Marshall mics are actually quite good, especially for the money. I've never used any of them. But if they're halfway decent, at least you don't have to fight with the mic. Get the drums sounding as good as possible. Really take the time to treat the drums, the room, etc. and get everything sounding as great as possible. Then use your mics and hope for the best.

 

LDC or SDC - sure, it matters, but the quality of the mic(s) matters far more. I've done sessions where the engineer was using Neumann U87s as overhead mics, and done others where the engineer was using Audio-Technica AT AT4041s, and the drums sounded great either way. It's the drummer, drums, room, engineer, audio chain, etc. that will make a large difference. Quite frankly, if it's appropriate, you can stick an SM 57 in front of a kick and come away with a decent sound (if you don't believe me, go listen to the Chili Peppers with Brendan O'Brien producing).

 

I like a lot of the AT 40 Series. Good bang for the buck. I don't know a thing about their 30 Series, but I'm sure it's good since AT doesn't make junk. I've seen AT4041s used for US$200 each, and that's a good bargain for a mic that good. If you can get something like that and a decent LDC or whatever and fit it in your budget, that'd be okay.

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Ok, thanks Ken. Just two questions?

 

1. What spl capacity a microphone should have to handle kick drum close micing?

 

2. do the LDC or SDC suffer any degradation when using them in high spl sources like drums?

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Originally posted by Wooden:

Thanks where. So you dont think NT50's and a at3035 would do a decent job? that are $600 for 3 mics

Do you mean NT-5's? Personally I cannot stand the soudn of them, painfully brittle, nothing below 100hz. I'd sooner use a pair of 57's thena NT-5's or their stereo counterpart NT-4.

Hope this is helpful.

 

NP Recording Studios

Analog approach to digital recording.

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Wooden, here's a 3 mic technique on drums by Fletcher:

 

http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

 

BTW, I had a great drumsound in the late eighties with only one PZM microphone in the sweet spot, nowadays I use twelve mics. :D

The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
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I think you could get decent results with a PZM (bass), two sdc's and a 57 for the snare.

 

And you can round those up for less than 4 bills. Placement, room sound, and the other usual variables will come into play.

But, if placement and the room are good, you should be able to get workable results.

 

I agree that one good mic can do it, but the room is going to be the number one issue with that approach. And if the room sounds like crud, than the single mic technique is going to get you a cruddy sounding drum recording.

 

The drum recording I have done has been in my home

and I do not have a good sounding room. My first attempts were using a mic on every drum and a pair of overheads, and then submixing those down to stereo. I never managed to get a decent drum sound this way. When I gut back to four mics, I achieved much better results.

And this was with some seriously cheap radio shack mics.

PZM ($50), two omnis (non-condensor- $40 a piece),

cardoid ($30).

I was also able to get workable sounds just using the two omnis.

 

When using cheap mics and a bad room, placement is everything.

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Originally posted by Wooden:

Ok, thanks Ken. Just two questions?

 

1. What spl capacity a microphone should have to handle kick drum close micing?

 

2. do the LDC or SDC suffer any degradation when using them in high spl sources like drums?

Can anyone answer please?
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any mic will eventually degrade over time, I suspect maybe a slight bit faster if exposed constantly to high spl, however since the resultant audio from a mic that cannot handle the SPL, it would seem pretty idiotic to continually expose said mic for the sake of capturing a signal you can't use.

Hope this is helpful.

 

NP Recording Studios

Analog approach to digital recording.

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Originally posted by Kris:

Ken, if you are getting useable results outside of the bass drum with the 4060, and are a big fan of the AT 40 series, then you really owe it to yourself to try out the 4047 for that purpose...

Kris, thanks for the tip. The AT4060 is what I've got for the kick right now, so it may not be the greatest mic for the task, but it's far from the worst! :D It sounds really great, so now that you are mentioning the AT4047, I'll keep my eyes and ears open for that. I'm really trying to not purchase any more microphones (yeah, yeah, don't laugh, that's like me trying to stay away from beautiful brunettes or falafel stands), but.....another mic that might be wonderful for this application is one of the Earthworks mics. Now that would probably sound really great.

 

How does the 4047 differ in sonic character from the AT4060, especially where kick drums are concerned?

 

And again, thanks for the tip!

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Originally posted by Wooden:

Ok, thanks Ken. Just two questions?

 

1. What spl capacity a microphone should have to handle kick drum close micing?

 

2. do the LDC or SDC suffer any degradation when using them in high spl sources like drums?

Where answered this very well. Can be 150dB or more. And as you may suspect, the answer to Question #2 is yes. I wouldn't get too hung up on this - I mean, how else are you going to mic a drum set? I've been using the same mics for years, and they still sound fine. Just make sure the mic can handle the SPL in the first place and you'll be fine.
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Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

How does the 4047 differ in sonic character from the AT4060, especially where kick drums are concerned?

 

And again, thanks for the tip!

From my understanding the 4047 is modeled after the early Neumann 47fet mic which is well known for its superb low end 'punch'...

 

It's tough for me to describe the difference, but let me put it this way...

 

I have used the 4060 in front of the bass drum a few times, and it never made it in the mix...

 

I have used the 4047 in the same capacity and it always makes it in the mix... and they are 1/3 the cost of the 4060...

Kris

My Band: http://www.fullblackout.com UPDATED!!! Fairly regularly these days...

 

http://www.logcabinmusic.com updated 11/9/04

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I heard a great drum sound with ONE mic at my buddies house. I guess if you're looking for something a little more precise and tweakable this ain't for you. But for a decent sound, I don't think you need to go all out and mic over and under every single drum, cymbal, or whathaveyou. I'd say one overhead, the kick, and the snare are a great place to go with three mics.
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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Thanks, Kris! Well, so far, I've been lucky and gotten really great sounds, but hey, if there's something that's better out there.........but gotta use what I have for now. My AT4060 is modified, and maybe that makes a difference. Some guy replaced the tube and capacitors and juiced it up a little, and this seemed to have extended the frequency range a little and made the thing sound better overall. I barely used the stock model before, and certainly didn't use it for kick drums, but this modified version is really something else. My AT4051s were modified by the same guy as well.
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