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OT - Painting old house


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My brother and I painted most of the outside woodwork my mom's house about three years ago. Brick house but plenty of wood, 2500 sq ft. We never did quite finish it. Probably 80% complete. Couple of questions.

 

There are areas where the paint is peeling and it sure needs painting. Last painting was probably twenty years ago. This is a big project, brother isn't available and I have to do it myself. If scraping is the only way, wow, this is going to be a load of work. We scraped before we painted last time.

 

I thought of high-pressure water but a painter told me that's not so good an idea, just scrape it. Ugh.

 

As for painting, I guess the old fashioned way, brush, is what you should do? Spraying might be a bigger hassle, I dunno.

 

The other question is I note that where we caulked the windows, it looks like all of that has mildew. I don't know how that happened. I guess it's okay but it looks bad. No telling how many windows she has. The kind where there are many panes within the big window.

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There's a product called PeelStop that you paint on as another layer under any primer you use. It's tacky, gluey stuff, but it will keep your scraping to a minimum.

 

I had it used on our old house in 2002, and it worked like a charm (I can't stand painting - hired a crew to do it for me). No peeling yet, 3 years later.

 

Good luck.

Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform.

Mark Twain (1835-1910)

--------------------

Reporter: "Ah, do you think you could destroy the world?" The Tick: "Ehgad I hope not. That's where I keep all my stuff!"

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You could also sandblast but that's a whole other can of worms. You're better off scraping.

Then, instead of brush and roller you can rent a high pressure airless spray paint rig. Done correctly the paint will be driven into the wood, where there is no old paint, and the stuff job will last longer without peeling.

 

Our Joint

 

"When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke...

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Hendmik, my kind of deal. I will check that out. I assume it will work with very old paint!

 

Uh... you said you paint this on under any primer... I assume you apply this stuff and wipe it off and off comes the old paint with it.

 

Anyone know why this caulk mildewed? I mean, how could we screw that up?

 

I should do this SOON. Weather is perfect but it will soon get hot.

 

Dak, thanks, I will check into cost of rental. I don't like painting with brush. I have no idea about running one of those spray rigs. I mean, PROPERLY. Damn, I dread this.

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Duke, most home improvement centers and home owner equipment/tool rental places will have the airless rigs. Out here they'll run anywhere from sixty to a hundred bucks a day. Seems high but they are a high maintenance item, thus the high rental cost.

Any of the places that rent them out can, and should, instruct you in their use. The home improvement centers will probably have a class scheduled at some time or another. Our local Home Depot does, along with other howto classes.

 

Our Joint

 

"When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it." The Duke...

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Duke, I just sided our very old, very large home over the last couple of years. At each window I had to scrape the old paint and re-glaze where the old had become brittle and fallen out. I don't understand the caulking bit, windows are suppose to have glazing to hold the glass in.

 

After you scrape (and the new scrapers are really good and fast, around 15 bucks at Lowes), you have to prime so the old, most likely oil base paint that's left will accept the newer water based stuff which is really cool and long lasting.

 

The most important thing is after you scrape, you need to wash the area with ammonia water. It drys fast. No matter what route you take, be sure to clean the surface before you paint.

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Just out of curiousity, what should I expect to pay to have the trim on my house painted? It's a fairly typical, 1,600 sq. ft. stuccoed ranch style home, and the only wood trim is the eves and overhangs and such, and a 10' X 30' patio cover that will only need to be painted on the interior part.

 

I'd do it myself, but it's going to need some scraping, and some of the areas (apex of the roof) are just too high up to reach, even with my ladder. And I'm just too busy to deal with it right now... but it's been put off for far too long and has to get done.

 

I am just looking for a general idea - I have no clue as to what it should cost, and I don't want to get ripped off.

 

Thanks for any suggestions!

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Oh, my, this is going to be a helluva job.

 

Hendmik, I googled for Peel Stop and that seems to be something to prevent peeling for the paint your are newly applying, not a paint removal product. I'd darn sure rather paint something off and then take it off but things I read say scraping is the only way. That pressure washing damages the wood. Found this...

 

As to my best advice for preparing your old siding for new paint, it unfortunately comes back down to elbow grease.

 

You should scrape off any loose paint with a paint scraper, taking care not to gouge into the wood, then sand the raised edges of the remaining adjacent paint to smooth them down and help the new paint to blend in better. Depending on the type of siding you have, you might also be able to use a belt or random orbit sander to do the entire job. Again, be careful not to sand too heavily into the wood. After the scraping and sanding is complete, I would strongly recommend spot-priming the bare wood, then applying another coat of primer over the entire wall prior to painting.

 

One strong word of caution here: With a 73-year-old house, there's a strong chance that you have one or more layers of lead paint. Be sure and have the paint tested for lead before doing any scraping or sanding.

 

My mom's house is 46 years old. I scraped some and tiny paint particles are flying around. I will have to somehow find out if there is lead in the old paint.

 

I note that the job my brother and I did three years ago, it looks terrible. We scraped and then painted one coat. Maybe we should have done two. I don't know if priming is necessary but we didn't do it.

 

There is a mildewy-looking funk all over. Little dark grey or almost black specks and splotches. Maybe this is mildew. I don't know why it would be all over the outside, all over every piece of wood. Whatever it is, it looks bad.

 

I look at the trim and think now how the hell are you really going to scrape all of this. This is a BIG house. This will take weeks if I work four hours a day at it.

 

The scrapers my bro and I used were cheap, small ones. I see they have ones for about $15 that are much bigger.

 

I went to school with a guy who is a painter. I think I will look him up and ask him to look at it.

 

Like Phil, I'm curious how much this would cost. I'd bet $2,000 to $4,000 for her house. Just a wild guess.

> > > [ Live! ] < < <

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Phil, if I were in your neighborhood, I'd definately work out a paint deal for studio time. ;) Just absolutely love to check out a couple of your toys!

 

Duke, at this point in my life I've got way more time than money so I've been doing things on my own. A painter will charge you a bundle more than you could do it yourself, but it's a lot of work. Thing is, if you prepare the surface right, (scrape away the loose paint, clean well with ammonia water and prime) the painting is easy.

 

After you prime, the paint goes on super fast and easy. It takes half the time to paint after you prime and you shouldn't need a second coat if you prime it; if you buy decent paint.

 

You can save a huge amount if you do it yourself. Have you got more time or money?

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First off, the reason painting companies like mine make good money is because people like you guys HATE painting :D .

Thanks for that.

Duke, you can blast that shit off with a pressure washer of not TOO high of pressure, if you rent one it should have a regulator on it.

Then let if fully dry for 2 days or so and you will have to scrape the remaining paint off then as some will lift as it dries.

If it is mildewy you'll also have to wash with amonia/water mixture or TSP and water and rinse.

Maby you are in a high humidity area and that would account for the caulking mildew thingy happening.

 

 

Depending on how perfect of a job is required, all you really have to do is scrape off the loose stuff.

Then prime all areas anywhere near where the peeling has happened with a good exterior oil primer. You pretty much have to do this by brush and roller if the surface is big enough or if you get a small enough roller.

Sprayers are messy and require lots of masking and care, and experience with them doesn't hurt either. Spaying oil requires extra caution as it floats wet through the air for some distance.

Plus if you are doing a big job you might as well buy a small Graco spayer for the price you'd pay renting.

If your house is like i imagine it may just be one of those jobs that is hard and slow and that i would charge a fortune for and hope the owner got someone else.

Anyway, after you get it primed you can put 2 coats of 100% acrylic solid color stain. Most of it is latex with a bit of oil in it, some weird hybrid, but it is the shit. It's easy to brush on as well, much easier than most other latexes.

 

If you do decide to spray, get a smaller tip for your trims, like a 2/11 and for the general house parts maby a 4/13 or 15.

The first number is half the width of the fan of spray @ 1 foot in inches and the second # is the amount of paint that comes out of the tip.

 

 

Phil, depending on the scraping required, up to 1500 bucks i'd guess. If it's high and awkward they may charge more.

Try to get some kids to do it by the hour. Just pay them well and keep and eye on them, there is nothing technical about it. For me those jobs are the ones i try to avoid and charge extra for in my quotes because people hate to pay for that little bit of painting but EVERYONE hates doing it, including painters and it's always more work than you think.

Residential stuff generally falls into that category actually.

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Okay, thanks for advice. As for mildew, this looks pervasive. Her house has a problem with this. When I was a kid it had gutters but they got removed 30 years ago. Water stands along the base of the house, it does not drain well. I've dug small ditches but it really hasn't solved it totally. Water still stands there for a day or so after a heavy rain. I think this problem might be why I see so much mildew. Virtually, the entire house except for the ends. Which is where water does NOT ever stand.

 

I have to get rid of the mildew and fix the drainage as well. Which is another bigass project, I tell ya.

 

I have a friend who has a gorgeous home. Here, it's probably quarter mil. Probably a million in California. Anyway, it's beautiful but he is always saying he wants to sell it, downsize to a very small place and even RENT if he could find something. Due to all of the hassles of home ownership.

 

Problem with the mom's house is she has no money and this stuff is expensive! She needs a new outside A/C unit and her kitchen floor is caving in, the SHAG carpet needs to be removed, pluming is dicey. It never ends for her, it seems. And very little funds.

 

I used to be rich but now, I'm a musician.

> > > [ Live! ] < < <

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I'll second what Halljams said. I house-painted for a few years, doing quality work, and to do it right is very very labor intensive.

 

You typically get what you pay for with house painters. There are a zillion guys out there that will underbid, do a sloppy, crappy job that looks good long enough for them to move to the next town.

 

My few tips:

- don't get all obsessive with the scraping. If you do, you will scrape too much, probably even taking some wood with it. Yeah, it definitely needs to be scraped, but where the old paint is stuck on there, then leave it there.

 

- make sure the wood is good and dry. Don't paint right after a couple of days of rain, etc. It's the humidity in the wood that travels out and bubbles the paint, then cracks and you're back to square one again.

 

- spraying looks easy and fast, but it's a bit of an art, not to mention really messy. You can't spray on windy days - you have to really clean the equipment thoroughly - you have to have the paint consistency just so - you have to learn how to move the sprayer back and forth at the right speed - you have to watch for drips and runs, and you have to put up masking and plastic and all that - and you can do a really lousy job real fast.

 

- One faster way to apply paint is to have one guy going at it with a big fat roller, maybe one of the power rollers that feeds the paint into the roller as you go - and then a guy or two following behind with a brush to work the paint in and get rid of drips and runs, etc.

 

- don't go cheap with the paint itself. This is really important if you want a paint job that will last. High quality paint (or stain) properly applied to a well-prepared surface will last an amazingly long time.

 

- mixing the paint is boring and slow, but mix it a good long time - using a drill with a stirrer attachment helps with this often neglected but essential task.

 

Take along a good boombox.

 

M Peasley

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Halljams, you said a pressure washer that didn't have too high a pressure is okay. How high is too high or how do you know?

 

Second... I need to do all of the wood for mildew. Could I mix in bleach? Do they have a reservoir?

 

Also, once you scrape, do you have to sand? This will take forever!

 

Last, on this trim, there are curves and angles to the trim. Scraping all of that is rather problematic. Any tips there?

 

Thanks for help, ugh.

> > > [ Live! ] < < <

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Live,

 

I used Peel Stop on an existing paint job that was significantly peeling, not a new job. It doesn't remove paint, but it glues down the peeling edges, so they don't come back up. That, combined with a little scraping, priming and two coats were all we needed.

 

We heard of the product from the paint dealer we use in Denver called Diamond Vogel. It services few consumers but mostly industrial painters, and they haven't pointed us in the wrong direction yet.

Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform.

Mark Twain (1835-1910)

--------------------

Reporter: "Ah, do you think you could destroy the world?" The Tick: "Ehgad I hope not. That's where I keep all my stuff!"

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Originally posted by LiveMusic:

Halljams, you said a pressure washer that didn't have too high a pressure is okay. How high is too high or how do you know?

 

 

Just test it on an unexposed area. if you move the wand fast and gracefully you can get away with pretty high pressure unless the wood is really soft, which it may be if your area is real damp.

 

Second... I need to do all of the wood for mildew. Could I mix in bleach? Do they have a reservoir?

If you find one with the attachment then yes, go for that.

Also, once you scrape, do you have to sand? This will take forever!

No you do not have to sand as well.

 

Last, on this trim, there are curves and angles to the trim. Scraping all of that is rather problematic. Any tips there?

This may be where some 50-60 grit paper would work better than scraping. Just fold the full sheet into 4 and wear a glove and cup the corner with the paper in the inside of your hand, or... what ever works

 

Thanks for help, ugh.

As with all hard work, I find it's best to just find a way to try to enjoy it, you will feel quite a sense of satisfaction if you do a good job ;)

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I have an idea that we used on our old windows woodwork at the old place and it looked good to.

We bought some paint stipper in massive cans and brushed it on, left it for an hour and then got a pressure washer and sprayed it of and it was clean as a whistle when we had finished.

We then left the windows a while to dry out and oiled them with Linseed oil or Cuprinol (not sure if you have this in the US) do a good wax for them.

It saved painting them and all they need once in a while was a recoat of wax or you could just use coloured vanish which is just as affective...

Just an idea to save you from all the blow touching and elbow grease on painted surfaces that are peeling.

I suppose you could also paint them afterwards and but use a good quality outdoor paint like Dulux if you have it over there.

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Scraping is a lot easier if you use a heat gun. It will make the paint bubble and lift of the surface. You can also use a torch, but I stopped doing that after I burnt out a fiber glass screen. Of course heating the paint will probably also remove any primmer, and there will be spots that require sanding, but you get a fresh start at everything. Use a good oil based primer, remember. the primer sticks to the wood and the paint sticks to the primer. As for windows, I painted last summer, and decided (after painting 4 windows), I just couldn't deal with them anymore), it was rather expensive, but well worth replacing every window in the house with new vinyl windows. They don't require painting (can't be painted), are air tight, operate flawlessly, easy to clean (fold into the house), and double glazed. The outside noise is down about 100 db (exaggeration) inside.
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