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r'n'b/rap vocal microphone/pre amp


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I've been recording with an audio technica atm31a (about £90) that I've had for a couple of years doing r'n'b/rap demo's. My brother (who's a profdessional singer) says that I've got the equipment to produce records (i.e. samplers etc..) but my microphone is'nt up to scratch. He starts mentioning names like Neuman and AKG's which cost bucks but he's used to using those when he records with other producers. He says he records stuff in peoples houses nowadays and the vocals come out good. He says that he'll put half the money up to buy a decent microphone. Now I dont know what to buy. Is the microphone the problem or ist it my lack of knowledge/experience recording? I also use a Joe Meek VC3 as a pre amp. Is that good for r'n'b/rap vocals. What do the pro's use as a mic/pre amp combination? I also get alot of noise from the computer fan and the general room noise which doesn't help me mix. I've tried to use the noise suppressor in my mixer (roland vm3100) but it seems to introduce sibilance and degrades the vocal sound. What I really want to do is record something without having to eq the hell out of it. I've always got too much bass on the vocals and end updoing too much to make it sound half decent. Sorry if this is long winded but I do need some pointers as to what I should be doing. As I said before I primarily make r'n'b/rap and dance music so I'm more of a "beat" creator than an engineer. But I figure buying a decent mic is better than spending bucks on studio time just for demo's. Thanks in advance ...
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Most rappers I've worked with practically yell into the microphone. And they get up on the microphone, no matter what I tell them, yelling right into the capsule. For them I use a Sennheiser 421 with really good results. Everyone esle I use a Shure KSM -32.. Both are cardoid mics with good off axis rejection so I don't get mushc if at all computer fan sounds. Joe
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360, Ask 10 different people, you will get about 26 different answers. There is no one correct solution, but that is only because different combo's of mics and pre's will sound different with different voices. While good equipment makes a difference, understanding what you have and learning to use it well is just as important, and you can get great results with what you have. An okay mic/pre combo in the hands of a good engineer will sound great, just because they know what to do. With that said there are a lot of good mics that can be had for lesser bucks than some high end stuff like Neumann U87's (the defacto standard for a lot of people). I also do hip-hop and some R&B, and I personally like using the ADK A51s or a Neumann TLM103 with an Avalon VT737. I have also had good luck with the Rode NT series. The lower end AKGs and Earhworks are good values, too. Electronic Magazine did a "Build Your Own Mic Cabinet" issue earlier this year that I thought was very good. You might want to check it out. When considering a mic-pre, you might want to try to get a good bang for the buck and get a channel strip so you will have the pre, compressor, eq all-in-one. The noise suppressor in the Roland will not help with ambient room noise Isolate the PC and deaden the room (www.aurelex.com is a good start to understand room acoustics) if you want to get a better sound in your mix (that will explain all the bass in your vocals). Good luck, MusicWorkz

Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330). Novation A Station, Arturia Analog Experience Factory 32

 

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Check into a Shure SM-7 It's a dynamic mic which will take a very high SPL without crapping out. This mic has been used on some very impressive ld vocals and I love it on sax. It costs about $600. I like cutting vocals in the control room and find it excellent at rejecting computer fan noice. Russ
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thanks for the comments, musicworks, I've read somewhere that the top producers (i.e teddy, trackmasters etc..) use really expensive outboard and mics (i.e. focusrite reds etc..). Are any popular hip hop/r'n'b records cut using modest equipment? I know you can make a decent beat with anything but the actual vocals and the general quality seems to be harder to get. Can I tell my brother that he's wasting his time trying to get that sound in my house without the equipment that the top guys use? Is it worth getting a dynamic mic (like sm58/7) for the rap parts so that it doesnt pick up the room noise/fan or does the quality suffer. By the way the raps wont be a lot of shouting, they are gonna be a touch laid back (think Q-tip, Mase etc..) ? Thanks again ...
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360, Unless you have access to resources (read money) like Teddy and the Trackmasters, you probably won't have access to the type of equipment they use short of renting time from a good studio. You can never really tell what people are using short of being there, but I am sure people have tricks and shortcuts and certain equipment they favor (hence the popularity of certain pieces like the MPC-you can get much better sampling resolution using other types of samplers, but they don't have the MPC'sound'). People use all types of equipment when recording (a Neumann thru a dbx mic-pre is like making a hamburger out of filet mignon-it will be better tasting than plain ground meat). So, while you can use all types of "good" equipment, it doesn't mean much if you don't know how to use it. You might want to concentrate on developing YOUR sound. If that means using an SM-57/8 with a Joe Meek thru a whatchamacallit, then so be it. Don't let GAS (Gear Aquisition Syndrome) get in the way of your artistry. Your brother isn't wrong in wanting to get the best quality and good gear will help that. But good gear isn't a panacea if you haven't worked what you have to its fullest because you will always want bigger and better (BTW, everyone on here has GAS [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]). I would invest in a decent condenser mic like the Rode NT 1 instead of the Shure if I had a choice ($200 at Sweetwater.com-I am sure you can find it for less). Again the room noise requires a different approach that a mic will NOT give you. IF you must, try recoding in a closet or bathroom (for that 'natural' reverb effect). Anyway you cut it, you need to have as quiet a room as possible free from background noise. As producer, it is up to you to help the artist get the right performance and sound. Whether or not there is shouting, a lot of that can be contained/tamed with proper use of a compressor, EQ and good technique by the artist. Keep trying it until it works... This message has been edited by MusicWorkz on 07-23-2001 at 01:46 PM

Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330). Novation A Station, Arturia Analog Experience Factory 32

 

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[quote]Originally posted by jtegan@tiac.net: [b]Most rappers I've worked with practically yell into the microphone. And they get up on the microphone, no matter what I tell them, yelling right into the capsule.Joe[/b][/quote] Hey Joe, Ever tried a Popscreen? The reason I ask is because you can position it as far from the mic as you need 4-8" and then the singer/rapper can yell and scream right up to the Popscreen. It really gives them the feeling that they are 'right up on the mic'. If the rappers vocals are up in the headphones, the illusion of being on the mic is fulfilled and you preserve your recording technique. I use a popscreen for all vocal applications in order to keep consistency in vocal levels hitting my pre. Cheers.
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threesixty, with dynamic mikes you have to crank up the gain a lot, and when you try to use the compression it really raises the noise floor. The phantom power is also noisy on the V3 so you may want to try a 9 volt battery in the mike-it may be quieter. The V3 is best suited for higher sensitivity mikes, I'm testing out a Studio Projects C1 condenser this week, they run around $200 street price. They're supposed to be comparable in sound to a Neumann U87! You may also want to try a milder compression ratio than the one suggested in the V3 manual to keep noise down for a more transparent vocal. How happy are you with the V3 so far?
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threesixty, I forgot to mention that I have used an Aphex 107 mike pre with good results for dynamic mikes. They run about $200 street price, Guitar Center had a sale lately where they also giving a $20 rebate. It's much quieter than the V3 on both dynamic mikes, and for providing phantom power for condensers. I read a post by Craig Anderton where he uses one-good enough for me!
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[quote]Originally posted by russrags: [b]Check into a Shure SM-7 It's a dynamic mic which will take a very high SPL without crapping out. [/b][/quote] Two times I had the "opportunity" to record a rapper with an SM-7 and thought it very easily provided that "up front in your face/potentially confrontational" sound needed. Of course, subtract the "confrontational" aspect and you've got Larry King, but... ------------------ [b]New and Improved Music Soon:[/b] http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

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Thanks for everyones input. I decided to take more care with recording vocals last night.. 1) put a towel over the computer to minimize the fan noise 2) moved the mic away from the computer to the other side of the room 3) turned up the enhancer on the Meek so that the sound was sharper, less boomy. 4) made sure I recorded the vocal at least 6 inches away from the microphone. 5) I did turned the noise suppressor on but with a low threshold so that it acts like a gate My vocals came out really well and just sat nicely on the track without tons of eq. Admittidely I not much of "vocal recording" fanatic so oI probably cant tell the difference between something done on different mics or say which mic I prefer. I just know that with more care I have made the vocal sound better and easier to mix. Maybe GAS was messing me up!! However if my bro wants to but me a mic, I'm not complaining. I'm looking at a AKG c3000 or a Rode NT2 they seem alright. The Meek's sounds ok to me. I find it gives the vocal a thicker quality rather like a mild saturation effect you get with those Analog tape plug ins. I dont think it's transparent so you've either got to like the sound or not.
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  • 2 years later...
I heard spoken word done rather nicely on a Studio Projects C-1. Of course somewhat different from straight up rap, but you might want to give that mic a try. The RodeNTK is a mic I personally love, Sm-7 should be great on rap vocals, I heard Tupac used a AT4033 on some of his records. But ultimately Musicworkz's post is spot on. If possible, go to a music store with your brother and get them to hook up certain mics. The one that makes your stomach tingle is the one to get. Don't let the mind, or the name get in the way. Get the one that speaks to you. Another way to go is getting a Sm57 with a high end pre. I've put a sm57 with a great river Nv and got some damn good results. If I was recording rap that would be the first combo I would try, however, I don't record rap, so take my post with a big grain of salt. Good luck and let us know what you decide, Lincoln Ross Dead Black Jedis

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[quote]Originally posted by threesixty: [b]1) put a towel over the computer to minimize the fan noise[/b][/quote]You are risking overheating your computer and frying it. DO NOT DO THIS< MOVE THE COMPUTER OR MIC UT OF THE ROOM!!!! [/QB][/QUOTE]5) I did turned the noise suppressor on but with a low threshold so that it acts like a gate.[/QB][/QUOTE] I don't recommend this. miss one bit of a phrase and your take is ruined. Better to process within your DAW after tracking than to gate when tracking IMHO. [quote]Originally posted by threesixty: [b]My vocals came out really well and just sat nicely on the track without tons of eq.[/b][/quote]that's the key, getting the sound you want without the aid of eq or dynamics. I fit sounds good going in, it'll sound great when mixing time comes, and a bit of eq and dynamics will go a long long way.

Hope this is helpful.

 

NP Recording Studios

Analog approach to digital recording.

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I'd like to hear a rapper squawk into a green bullet or something like that, with a blues based band behind them...........ok if somebody does this....I want some percentage!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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