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That�s not a concert!


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Ive been in the mood to watch concerts on DvD and LD. Over the past few weeks I have enjoyed watching Santana, Pink Floyd and U2. In an effort to modernize my collection I did a little research and bought a DvD of Underworld, one of my favorite electronic groups. I read a lot of positive reviews on Amazon before buying the DvD, but the reviews failed to mention one important aspect. They dont play anything!

 

For an hour I watched someone sing while the other two members stood behind a large mixing console adjusting volume and panning recorded parts. There was a Nord Lead 3, Akai MPC-4000 and a few other electronic instruments but not once did I even see anyone touch a key. There were also a laptop on stage but I have no idea what it was running. The singer did use a guitar sometimes. At least, he carried it around. During one song he decided to sit the guitar down and dance around, but the guitar part of the song kept on playing. Not surprising. At another point he stopped singing, but the vocals kept coming out of the speakers.

 

So is this what live performance is becoming? A singer and a mixing crew? Ive had sound men in the past that thought they should be part of the band. Maybe their time has come.

 

Robert

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I suppose art, any art, is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. Who knows what things will be like in another 100 years. Live music may be completely obsolete.

 

(cue weird music as camera cuts to Rod Serling smoking a cigarette)...

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I saw a similar thing on some award show last year. Three people standing, motionless, behind keyboards & consoles while some electronica came out. Lots of 'dramatic' camera angles, but no other hints of movement. The audience went wild.... go figure.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

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Originally posted by Tedster:

I suppose art, any art, is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. Who knows what things will be like in another 100 years. Live music may be completely obsolete.

 

(cue weird music as camera cuts to Rod Serling smoking a cigarette)...

Shut yo' mouth!

 

I don't care what any says. Acoustic instruments will always prosper.

 

Wasn't it Einstein who said, "I don't know what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but the next war will be fought with sticks and stones."?

 

In the same vein, I'd suggest that no matter what strange new electronic instruments and sounds are created, there will always be violins, guitars, and drums with nary an electronic component.

 

I've yet to hear the electronic music that encourages a sing-a-long around a campfire at the beach. ;)

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

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I've yet to hear the electronic music that encourages a sing-a-long around a campfire at the beach. ;) [/QB]

 

guess you didnt see all those beach movies of the 60s when DickDale and BeachBoys and others would rock out on the beach their w/ electric guitars... :)

s :cool:

AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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I know it takes some getting used to, but there's a whole generation of people who think the turntable is a musical instrument. It's not going to change. People want to be entertained. It's a performance, maybe not a "live" one, but it's still a performance.

 

Back in the day, I'm sure the first band to use a synth to replicate string sounds onstage got the same reaction too. What about using a MIDI sequencer live? What's the difference? It's still a pre-recorded performance.

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Kind of reminds me of when I saw New Order.

 

I was a huge Joy Division fan. I went to see NO on faith (they did have a decent song on the radio).

 

If you'd been able to harness the kinetic energy on stage you might have been able to light a match.

 

Maybe.

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Originally posted by GTRBass:

Back in the day, I'm sure the first band to use a synth to replicate string sounds onstage got the same reaction too. What about using a MIDI sequencer live? What's the difference? It's still a pre-recorded performance.

Yeah, well, I think that all sucks too. :D

 

People apparently forked over hundreds of dollars to see Paul McCartney and when he did the stuff that'd had strings originally, it was replaced by synths. Screw that! If I'm gonna pay that much to see a concert I wanna see the whole damn orchestra if that's what's called for! The Page and Plant tour in the mid 90's, they performed with a full orchestra and Egyptian violinists and percussionists... and what an AMAZING show. Unforgettable. Not only live but I've watched it on video countless times.

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we go on and on and over and over this here, bringin pre recorded stuff to a "live" show @. some looper people bring pre recorded loops to shows and others (including me) bring nothing pre arranged...

i know i was not happy way back when and the Who did the WhosNext tour and i heard all that prerecorded keyboard stuff and i wanted my money back... :)

s :cool:

AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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I used to do an all-improv echo-loop show. (Everything, synths, guitars, percussion, etc played live into echo loops.) After a number of years, and after upgrading to the old Jam Man echo loops which could sync to MIDI, I introduced a drum machine, which used preprogrammed drum sequences.

 

At first, I liked the novelty. But, after a while, it seemed like it made everything start coming out the same and I ultimately lost my passion for the whole project. And I don't think the audience was far behind in their disillusionment.

 

What started out as an anything-goes, dancing with chaos, every show totally different experience ended up as a boring exercise. I was still playing all my parts by hand, but that robot drummer ended up stealing the show and throwing it in the ashcan.

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What bothers me is two keyboardists could have pulled this off with nothing but a drum machine. Instead, two guys stayed behind a mixer. They never touched a keyboard even though there was one on stage. They never touched the MPC. They never even had a controller connected to the computer so the music could be done with Ableton Live. They just stood behind the mixer and tried to look busy while the third member sang and danced. At least when someone uses a keyboard to cover orchestral parts, they are pressing keys and playing notes. :mad:

 

Robert

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One of my pals had some success doing hard break stuff in the early 90s. He had a track on a big selling break compilation and started getting offers to play at raves.

 

At first he really tried to come up with something where he sort of 'played' live, which would have been theoretically possible, since he'd recorded the original mixes straight from his incredibly elaborate MIDI rig straight to DAT. He figured he could even play some of the lines live, just to have something to do on stage. And his MC could do his ad libs, uh, ad lib.

 

That fantasy lasted one 'practice' -- a disastrous 7 hour affair that never even saw the whole rig working.

 

Plan B worked a whole lot better, but wouldn't have pleased a few folks here if they'd seen the tiny portable DAT machine tucked in under the keyboard mixer.

 

But he was compulsive about taking all the gear, hooking it all up, and running sequences (so the lights would blink, donchya know?) while he went through the motions (and occasionally did play a keyboard noodle) and his MC danced around, ad libbed a bit, and pointed at my pal for his big "solos."

 

But he wasn't anybody's fool. He'd been in a show band in the 80s and knew what was what with audiences, even at the other polar cultural extreme.

 

So he added two semi-scantily clad go go dancers who sweated up a storm and was widely and very well reviewed as a "real band," and "not just some anonymous synth outfit." He was deeply amused.

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Originally posted by stanner:

I've yet to hear the electronic music that encourages a sing-a-long around a campfire at the beach. ;)

guess you didnt see all those beach movies of the 60s when DickDale and BeachBoys and others would rock out on the beach their w/ electric guitars... :)

s :cool: [/QB]

 

HA HA HEE! Recall it all too well. Some of them were even hooked up to cables going...where? :D:D

 

But as to the topic, a large part of the reason I quit going to "concerts" was that great mobs of people would be wandering around the arena...NOT paying attention to who was onstage, but rather looking around at who might be noticing THEM! Those onstage might as WELL fake it, for all those mobs care.

 

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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Nice thread.

 

I bought that Underworld DvD not too long ago. Underworld is one of my favourite bands... if you can call that a band, more like an 'act'.

 

Originally posted by Rabid:

I read a lot of positive reviews on Amazon before buying the DvD, but the reviews failed to mention one important aspect. They dont play anything!

Well, you do realize that phisically playing each and every part of and Underworld track would require more than 2 individuals onstage, right? (Although it would have been awesome to see a bunch of dudes bangin' on some african drums in 'Born Slippy Nuxx', and stuff like that). Also, many of the parts of their songs are meticousloly programmed and tweaked. So triggering sequences and electronic instruments is the way to go. At least for this type or presentation.

 

Originally posted by Rabid:

For an hour I watched someone sing while the other two members stood behind a large mixing console adjusting volume and panning recorded parts. There was a Nord Lead 3, Akai MPC-4000 and a few other electronic instruments but not once did I even see anyone touch a key.

Again, the power of 'triggers'. I understand what you're saying, though. It would have cool to see them play a note. Probally that laptop we see is sending messages all over the place as those guys bang the faders and Rick Smith sweats his ass off.

 

Originally posted by Rabid:

So is this what live performance is becoming? A singer and a mixing crew? Ive had sound men in the past that thought they should be part of the band. Maybe their time has come.

I hope not. Generally speaking. But in this specific case, yes. You cannot expect to see kind of show that a rock band puts out in an electronic act like Underworld. Don't get me wrong, but electronic music it's not only about the music... it's about the whole experience.

 

Those trippy images all over the place perfectly in sync (by Tomato) are a major part of the act and the audiences enjoyment.

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Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Originally posted by Tedster:

I suppose art, any art, is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. Who knows what things will be like in another 100 years. Live music may be completely obsolete.

 

(cue weird music as camera cuts to Rod Serling smoking a cigarette)...

Shut yo' mouth!

 

I don't care what any says. Acoustic instruments will always prosper.

 

Wasn't it Einstein who said, "I don't know what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but the next war will be fought with sticks and stones."?

 

In the same vein, I'd suggest that no matter what strange new electronic instruments and sounds are created, there will always be violins, guitars, and drums with nary an electronic component.

 

I've yet to hear the electronic music that encourages a sing-a-long around a campfire at the beach. ;)

I second you mate...LONG Live LIVE MUSIC MAN..!!!

Vinay Vincent,

BASE Studios

 

"Live Jazz friday nights at The Zodiac Bar"

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Originally posted by stanner:

...guess you didnt see all those beach movies of the 60s when DickDale and BeachBoys and others would rock out on the beach their w/ electric guitars... :)

s :cool:

Ya brat! :P

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Originally posted by GTRBass:

Back in the day, I'm sure the first band to use a synth to replicate string sounds onstage got the same reaction too. What about using a MIDI sequencer live? What's the difference? It's still a pre-recorded performance.

Yeah, well, I think that all sucks too. :D

 

People apparently forked over hundreds of dollars to see Paul McCartney and when he did the stuff that'd had strings originally, it was replaced by synths. Screw that! If I'm gonna pay that much to see a concert I wanna see the whole damn orchestra if that's what's called for! The Page and Plant tour in the mid 90's, they performed with a full orchestra and Egyptian violinists and percussionists... and what an AMAZING show. Unforgettable. Not only live but I've watched it on video countless times.

I can forgive certain, minor use of midi sequences, etc., but minor. I've mentioned on other threads James Taylor's use of a reel to reel with a footpedal trigger for the background harmonies on Shower The People. The differences were the reel-to-reel was placed on a chair, front and center, he triggered the pedal himself, and the rest of the concert was done with 3 amazing background vocalists. So yes, I can forgive his wish to have the exact background vocals on this one song. Otherwise, I agree with Lee. The less you use tracks and sequences in a live situation the better. I paid to see you perform, not listen to your pre-recorded sequences, etc.

 

And Lee, Elton John toured Australia in the early 1990's with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, recreating the incredible Paul Buckmaster arrangements recorded on EJ's 1970's albums. It's one of my favorite live albums. The engineers took full advantage of the dynamic range afforded by digital recording technology. Unfortunately, you can't listen, comfortably, in the car because it constantly dips below background noise, but if you turn the quiet sections up it tears your head off when the full orchestra gets going! :freak: I only wish I could've been at one of those concerts. :(

 

Hey, Vinay! :thu: Heard any more news from the coast?

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

Soundclick

fntstcsnd

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