Sonar / Logic reviews in KBoard - Mac G4 $$$???

[C.Jader]

I am real happy with SONAR 4, and wouldn't dream of switching to anything else. My workflow in this new version is so fast, I can't believe I lived without it.

 

Why don't you download the SONAR demo at the Cakewalk site and check it out for yourself to see if you're comfortable with it.

 

BTW, I know for a fact that Cakewalk offers competitive upgrades, not sure what the price is though. I switched from Cubase to SONAR 2 and they gave me a good deal. I see you are also a registered customer. Maybe you should try calling Cakewalk up to see what they can do for you to bring you back to the fold.

[pbognar]

Originally posted by Sergievsky:

Not to stir things up again, but I don't understand why people think what Apple did to Logic was shady. Apple is a hardware company as well as software, so of course they're gonna do what's best for the company. Why the heck would they develop software for the PC? Get pissed off at Emagic for selling it to Apple, but don't blame Apple for purchasing something and making a decision that will help them develop the product so it will be profitable. It's not like what Gibson did to Opcode, where they really killed it. Logic is alive and on top, and no small part to the advantage they enjoy with their parent company. And I don't even USE Logic! I love DP but am envious of what Apple has included in the bundle. Tremendous value I think.

 

If Gibson decided to just make Studiovision a PC only product you can bet I would have purchased the latest from Intel or AMD, and I hate windows!

Hey, I have no personal animosity toward Apple - business is business, I just said I was a victim. If Apple's aim was to create a line-up of software to lure people to their machines and I'm now considering getting a Mac because of Logic, then their business decision must be sound.

 

Pete

[Sergievsky]

Sorry dude, it wasn't directed at you. l forgot the quotes...

Originally posted by Dilligan:

....I think what Apple did with killing of PC support for Logic was about as shady as they come, so I personally wouldnt want to give them anymore of my money if I were in your position. But thats just me, and yes, Im biased . BTW, Cakewalk has nice cross-grade prices to Sonar, so you might want to check that out.

I could understand though why he was upset. But anyway, I agree with him about not having to deal with copyprotection. I also don't have that problem with DP.

[Dylan]

Originally posted by Sergievsky:

Not to stir things up again, but I don't understand why people think what Apple did to Logic was shady. Apple is a hardware company as well as software, so of course they're gonna do what's best for the company. Why the heck would they develop software for the PC?

Apple already develops software for PC including Quicktime and iTunes and it has helped their business. They wouldn't have sold nearly as many iPods if they didn't have PC support. However, they didn't have to write anything for Logic PC; the source code was already written! The PC version was very stable, useable and had a loyal fan base. Emagic probably only had to employ one or two programmers to keep Logic for PC up to date. Its one thing to develop something from the ground up, but the code was in existence and Apple decided to kill it solely for political reasons. It was a very Microsoft-like move and thats why I think its shady.

[Dan South]

I would venture that Logic is a more complex program than either iTunes of Quicktime.

 

Hey, it would be great to have a Wintel version of Logic. It would be great to have a LINUX version, too. But it would be difficult to maintain two development paths. Complex programs like Final Cut Pro don't have a PC version. DP doesn't have a PC version. How can Logic remain competitive with single version packages like DP and SONAR if they have to double their development expenses?

 

I'm sure that Apple would like to closely integrate Logic with OSX to that it can take advantage of new OSX features as they are introduced. A PC version wouldn't be able to offer these features, so the development paths would have to diverge, or Apple would have to refuse to add these cool new features to the Mac version of Logic. Either way, it's a losing proposition.

 

Last time I checked, there were a LOT of programs available for Wintel, FAR more than the number available for OSX. Why is it always the Wintel people who bitch about the small array of Mac-only programs? I never hear Macoids crying because they can't run SONAR.

[steadyb]

Originally posted by Dan South:

I never hear Macoids crying because they can't run SONAR.

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by Dilligan:

Apple already develops software for PC including Quicktime and iTunes and it has helped their business. They wouldn't have sold nearly as many iPods if they didn't have PC support.

That makes sense. A Windows version of iTunes helps sell Apple hardware (the iPod), but a Windows version of Logic Audio helps sell PC hardware.

 

It's clear from the current pricing structure that Apple intends its profit center to be hardware sales. That's why their software is free or relatively cheap and their hardware isn't.

 

The current Logic Pro bundle is worth thousands of dollars, but it sells for $999. It's pretty clear that Apple can't be making a profit in selling this software, so where's the sense in spending more money on developing Windows versions that only increase PC sales? The way things now stand, Apple can be assured of selling a Mac for every copy of Logic Pro it sells. In fact, with Logic's new distributed processing feature, Apple may sell several Macs to some Logic users who want the increased power that using multiple Macs will now provide. This is an excellent example of increasing hardware sales and profits by sacrificing software profits.

 

It's not evil nor kind. It's just "thinking different."

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Groovepusher Sly]

pbognar,

Something else I forgot to mention. There is a program called Virtual PC you can use on a Mac, to revisit XP if necessary.

If you shop around, you can find a Mac that will run DP4. Make the Mac your main music machine and use the PC emulator for other stuff you might need.

 

Sly

[Anderton]

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Actually, I think they are, because the level of piracy is virtually non-existent. IMO this is perhaps an example of what pricing/value would be like if piracy didn't exist.

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by Anderton:

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Actually, I think they are, because the level of piracy is virtually non-existent. IMO this is perhaps an example of what pricing/value would be like if piracy didn't exist.

Really? Wow! Craig, I'm sure you're privy to information to which I don't have access, so I stand corrected.

 

Even so I still believe, based on Apple's actions, that it considers hardware sales to be its main (if not exclusive) profit center and that Logic Pro's new distributed audio feature, coupled with the removal of PC versions of Logic Pro, helps drive hardware sales for Apple.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Anderton]

<>

 

Last I heard, the Logic dongle had still not been cracked. After their new copy protection was in place and Emagic/Apple dropped Logic PC support, they sold MORE programs on just the Mac platform alone than they had on both platforms before. When you do the market share numbers for Mac vs. PC, that becomes all the more interesting. This is something I heard directly from the top levels of Emagic over lunch at the Frankfurt Messe, so unless I misunderstood somehow, this is indeed the situation.

 

<>

 

I can't speak for Apple but of course, they want to sell hardware and software. The way it looks to me is like this:

 

Freebies (e.g., iLife) = "Hey, buy our hardware!"

Pro level stuff (Logic, Final Cut Pro, etc.) = "And you can buy really cool software to run on our hardware!"

 

I must say Apple is an amazing company. They drive me up the wall sometimes with their constant hardware shifts and incompatibilities, but they show imagination and style. And their industrial design is without parallel.

[Geoff Grace]

Craig, thanks for sharing this info.

 

Originally posted by Anderton:

Last I heard, the Logic dongle had still not been cracked. After their new copy protection was in place and Emagic/Apple dropped Logic PC support, they sold MORE programs on just the Mac platform alone than they had on both platforms before. When you do the market share numbers for Mac vs. PC, that becomes all the more interesting. This is something I heard directly from the top levels of Emagic over lunch at the Frankfurt Messe, so unless I misunderstood somehow, this is indeed the situation.

Unless I misunderstand you, you seem to be implying that Logic Pro's sales increased as a direct result of its crack-proof dongle. But couldn't its sales just as easily have increased because Apple decided to throw in the entire Emagic software synth and sampler arsenal for free?

 

I can only speak for myself; but personally, I decided not to upgrade because my Logic 4 dongle died under a deadline and forced a great hardship on me. It was only the incredible value of this new bundle that lured me back to the fold (despite the dongle). If that was my reason for deciding to buy Logic Pro, how many others decided for that reason?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to imply that Logic Pro's crack-proof dongle had no effect on sales. I just wonder how one sorts out the mess when a variety of potential causes for the surge in sales occurred in roughly the same period.

 

Best,

 

Geoff